A God who is unable to to get what He desires to get, is nothing but impotent and no God at all.

[Manfred]

NOBODY'S will is to be a "Born again Christian" until the lights come on, and they can SEE.

Agreed, so why does the light not come on for EVERYONE?

Or are you saying it does?
I have spoken to many and I have shared the gospel to many. In my experience, the light (conviction) comes to only some. It is not because the Power of God fails.

You seem to think that God's drawing Paul failed in it's efficacy?

 

[Manfred]

Are you a proponent of Universalism?

Please clarify your position.

Why ask such a question?
I am a proponent of the Sovereignty of God.

God chooses on whom He will have mercy and compassion.
All does not mean every single individual, all the time.

I put it to you that you are a closet universalist.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Do you think this scripture is talking about every individual ever, or that it refers to all the elect that they should all reach repentance?
Or perhaps you believe in a god that cannot get what he wants, as he has to pander to man?

 

[justbyfaith]

Why ask such a question?
I am a proponent of the Sovereignty of God.

God chooses on whom He will have mercy and compassion.
All does not mean every single individual, all the time.

I put it to you that you are a closet universalist.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

Do you think this scripture is talking about every individual ever, or that it refers to all the elect that they should all reach repentance?
Or perhaps you believe in a god that cannot get what he wants, as he has to pander to man?

Every individual ever.

However, God places the virtue of freedom above His desire for all men to be saved. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (2 Corinthians 3:17).

That verses teaches that mankind has free will at least in moments when the Holy Spirit is present.

So, when the Holy Spirit draws a man to Christ, he is enabled to make a free will decision to either receive or reject Christ. God does not force the issue on him.

Limited Atonement is not the reality (1 John 2:2).

And Universalism is not the reality (Matthew 13:41-42, 49-50, 25:46).

Therefore, Irresistible Grace is also not the reality.

Because if Irresistible Grace were the reality, either Universalism or Limited Atonement would also be the reality...however neither one of those is the reality.

Therefore, grace can be resisted, just as the Holy Ghost can be resisted (Acts 7:51).

 

[Manfred]

That is not being drawn by the Holy Spirit; because where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (2 Corinthians 3:17).

In your theology people receive freedom, understand it, have a conviction of it, embrace it, and in a moment choose to reject it.

False teaching!
Joh 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Joh 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

You have this wayward theology that teaches that Jesus will lose some of those given Him by the Father.
You keep contradicting scripture.

 

[Manfred]

However, God places the virtue of freedom above His desire for all men to be saved. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (2 Corinthians 3:17).

That verses teaches that mankind has free will at least in moments when the Holy Spirit is present.

No it does not!

When God's Spirit sets you free, you are free indeed. No longer a slave to sin.

You have a theology where the Spirit of God doesn't set you free from self, but self keeps some enslaved to their sin. That is NOT freedom.

 

[justbyfaith]

In your theology people receive freedom, understand it, have a conviction of it, embrace it, and in a moment choose to reject it.

False teaching!
Joh 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Joh 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

You have this wayward theology that teaches that Jesus will lose some of those given Him by the Father.
You keep contradicting scripture.

No, what I am saying is that not all who are drawn to Christ are necessarily given to Christ.

 

[Manfred]

Every individual ever.

As I said, you are a closet universalist who denies the Sovereignty of God!

 

[justbyfaith]

No it does not!

When God's Spirit sets you free, you are free indeed. No longer a slave to sin.

You have a theology where the Spirit of God doesn't set you free from self, but self keeps some enslaved to their sin. That is NOT freedom.

I agree that those who are set free from sin are slaves of righteousness, the Bible clearly teaches that.

But freedom is more than that. It is freedom to make a decision, in the case of being drawn to Christ, the decision to either receive or reject Christ.

 

[Manfred]

No, what I am saying is that not all who are drawn to Christ are necessarily given to Christ.

Not all men are drawn!
You hold to a false teaching!
Luk 10:21 In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.
Luk 10:22 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
Luk 10:23 Then turning to the disciples he said privately, “Blessed are the eyes that see what you see!
Luk 10:24 For I tell you that many prophets and kings desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.”

 

[justbyfaith]

As I said, you are a closet universalist who denies the Sovereignty of God!

You have taken my statement out of context and therefore are not taking into account my explanation; which shows that I am no closet Universalist.

I also don't deny God's sovereignty. I believe that, in His perfect sovereignty, God has chosen to give to every man a degree of his own sovereignty.

After all, He made mankind in His image.

God is free; therefore He created man to be free.

 

[Manfred]

I agree that those who are set free from sin are slaves of righteousness, the Bible clearly teaches that.

But freedom is more than that. It is freedom to make a decision, in the case of being drawn to Christ, the decision to either receive or reject Christ.

You cannot die to self!

You want glory. You crave it. To you it's not God but the self that NEEDS to be glorified.

Do you pray, "Lord Your will be done"? It does not seem that way, rather "my will be done"

 

[justbyfaith]

Not all men are drawn!
You hold to a false teaching!
Luk 10:21 In that same hour he rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.
Luk 10:22 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
Luk 10:23 Then turning to the disciples he said privately, “Blessed are the eyes that see what you see!
Luk 10:24 For I tell you that many prophets and kings desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.”

All men are drawn; just not in salvation.

Jhn 12:32, And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

This scripture is as clear as day on the subject.

However, the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God.

 

[Manfred]

I also don't deny God's sovereignty. I believe that, in His perfect sovereignty, God has chosen to give to every man a degree of his own sovereignty.

A degree of sovereignty that overrides that of god!

That is glorifying in self, and not giving God alone the glory.

Do you pray "I thank you God that you have made me sovereign to choose You" Thank you that I am not like the Atheist who chose not to choose you!

 

[justbyfaith]

You cannot die to self!

You want glory. You crave it. To you it's not God but the self that NEEDS to be glorified.

Do you pray, "Lord Your will be done"? It does not seem that way, rather "my will be done"

I believe that the actual problem is that you want to deny your personal responsibility to receive Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.

 

[justbyfaith]

A degree of sovereignty that overrides that of god!

That is glorifying in self, and not giving God alone the glory.

Do you pray "I thank you God that you have made me sovereign to choose You" Thank you that I am not like the Atheist who chose not to choose you!

Those whom God chooses cannot help but give themselves to God.

However, God chooses those whom He knows will make a free will decision to receive Christ.

Do you pray to God, I thank you that you chose me above the atheist and condemned the atheist to hell; giving him no choice in the matter?

 

[Manfred]

All men are drawn; just not in salvation.

Jhn 12:32, And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

This scripture is as clear as day on the subject.

However, the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God.

You still reject the context of all.
It does not mean every individual ever. It makes a mockery of God's drawing. It makes Him a failure.

 

[Manfred]

I believe that the actual problem is that you want to deny your personal responsibility to receive Jesus as your Lord and Saviour.

I had no personal responsibility!

I was content in my sin. I felt no responsibility at all.

When I was made alive to understanding the gospel by God, my spirit rejoiced and I prayed that His will be done.

Unlike you, I will never take one ounce of glory reserved for God alone for self.

 

[justbyfaith]

Therefore, grace can be resisted, just as the Holy Ghost can be resisted (Acts 7:51).

Love never fails (1 Corinthians 13:8) to give every man a free will decision to either receive or reject Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

I had no personal responsibility!

I was content in my sin. I felt no responsibility at all.

When I was made alive to understanding the gospel by God, my spirit rejoiced and I prayed that His will be done.

Unlike you, I will never take one ounce of glory reserved for God alone for self.

Well, I am here to tell you that it may be His will that you are of the non-elect.

Because if some are of the elect and others are of the non-elect, you may be one of them.

 

[Manfred]

However, God chooses those whom He knows will make a free will decision to receive Christ.

Nonsense and anti Biblical.
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

Before they birth.
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?”
Rom 9:20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”
Rom 9:21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
Rom 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Rom 9:23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—