WW III and the rebuilding of the temple

[Red Baker]

If one wants to say generation as in usual usage,

You lost me with this. What I said was this.

This generation was not that present generation, for they did not kill Abel and all other righteous folks in the scriptures, the generation of serpents did, they have been here since the very beginning and will be here until the end of all things.

Actually, that then present generation, had some of the most righteous people that ever lived in this world, from John the Baptist, to Jesus, the apostles and many others we could name. No generation has ever had that many godly men and women at one time, living in the midst of a generation of wicked people.

I said in another place that God's word is its own dictionary, and does provide us with the sense in which the Spirit uses certain words, different than the way OED (Oxford English Dictionary) would give the meaning of certain words ~ generation is one of them among others. It has its common meaning, and than it has the meaning which God word provide for our understanding of its hidden truths. Consider what Jonathan Edwards said concerning the word generation when preaching from 1st Peter 2:9:

Second, true Christians are a distinct race of men. They are of a peculiar descent or pedigree, different from the rest of the world. This is implied in their being called a generation. There are three significations of the word generation in the Scriptures. Sometimes it means, as is its meaning in the common use, a class of persons among a people, or in the world, that are born together, or so nearly together, that the time of their being in the different stages of the age of man is the same. They shall be young persons, middle aged, and old together. Or they shall be together upon the stage of action. All that are together upon the face of the earth, or the stage of action, are very often accounted as one generation. Thus when God threatened that not one of the Israelites of that generation should see the good land, it is meant, all from twenty years old and upwards.

A second meaning is, those who are born of a common progenitor.

A third meaning of the word in Scripture, is, a certain race of mankind, whose generation and birth agree, not as to time, but as to descent and pedigree, or as to those persons from whom they originally proceeded. So it is to be understood, Mat. 1:1, “This is the book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the son of Abraham;” that is, this is the book that gives an account of his pedigree. And this meaning, viz. those who are of the same race and descent, must be given to the word in the text. The righteous are often spoken of in Scripture as being a distinct generation, Psa. 14:5, “There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.” Psa. 24:6, “This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob.” Psa. 73:15, “If I say, I will speak thus: behold, I should offend against the generation of thy children.”

That the godly are a distinct race appears evident, since they are descended from God. They are a heavenly race, and they are derived from above. The heathen were wont to feign that their heroes and great men were descended from the gods, but God’s people are descended from the true and living God, without any fiction, Psa. 22:30, “A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.” That is, a seed, a posterity, shall serve him, and it shall be accounted to the Lord for his posterity or offspring.

Christians are a chosen generation proceeding from God through election of grace. The wicked are children of the Wicked one, they are evil and wicked generation of vipers. The word generation is for the most part used in this sense (a certain race of mankind, whose generation and birth agree, not as to time, but as to descent and pedigree, or as to those persons from whom they originally proceeded.) throughout the scriptures. There are only two generation of people in this world, one chosen, who are the generation of God's elect people; the other, reprobates, children of perdition, evil and wicked children who have hated and killed the righteous from Abel on.

1st John 3:12​

“Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.”

John 8:44​

“Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

Matthew 23:33​

“Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” They cannot and will not escape!

So, when we read:

Matthew 24:34​

“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.” Know that it is speaking of the generation of men that the Lord was warning about, that would be the cause of tribulation to his children just before he comes again. More later on this point.

Remember, Jesus second coming is immediately at the end of the Great Tribulation, according to Jesus.

Again, I agree, but this great tribulation period, the little season of John's teachings in the book of Revelation of Jesus Christ, is spiritual in nature, meaning it is not speaking about the world in generally, but the time of Jacob's trouble, Jacob being the very elect, Jews and Gentiles, and time if God did not shortened the days, no flesh would be saved~and the salvation under consideration is not speaking about our flesh, but, being saved with a true understanding of the TIMES of what is happening and the time of the nearness of Christ's coming, when every eye shall see him, not as a babe in manger, but as the Mighty LORD GOD coming to destroy his enemies and ours.

2nd Thessalonians 1:7​

“And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”

 

[Arial]

Common sense would dictate that since we have the perfect open world laboratory right now, where all the stars seem to be lining up, and all the pieces appear to be moving into place, shouldn't we be watching to see what happens?

Maybe you need to read the tea leaves, the tarot cards, and consult a sorcerer also.

 

[Mr GLee]

The main things are: The heart of the Lord discourse has to do with false prophets and their followers coming in the latter days of the last day.

Matthew 24:15​

“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand”

To be brief, there's coming an abomination which God shall make desolate at his coming. This abomination here in these scriptures (Matthew 24) is speaking of an abomination in the temple of God, or, the places where He is worshipped.

The holy place, post Christ's coming, death, and resurrection is not speaking of the temple that was in Jerusalem during the days of Christ, which some of its remains are still there today. Jesus would have never refer to that temple as a holy place, since the veil of the temple was rent in twain from top to bottom, as a sign that God was forever finished with both Jerusalem and its temple.

Post Christ death and resurrection, the only holy place that could even be consider in our day are, either our body, which is the temple of God, or places of worrship.

1st Corinthians 11:22​

“What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.”

Here the church(es) has reference to a place of worship, which we should honor and respect and put forth our best effort to worship God ~ not that worrship is limited to a place/building, by no means, yet we do use such places to worship.

"what does "all these things" apply to in the discourse?" Mainly latter day apostasy, and the Lord's coming the second time to gather together his elect from the four winds of heaven and to destroyed the wicked that the world shall be overrun with, due manly to false prophets.

I would offer.

Yes. . In the holy place of God (indwelling the believer)..Not temples built with the dying hands as a will of mankind .

Temples built with human hands never had the approval of Christ the husband.

I would agree false prophets or antichrists' bringing oral traditons of dying mankind .

Antichrists' (Legion) dying mankind deceived by Satan the spirit (singular) of antichrists that works in false apostles '

Peter used as a serial denier (3times) He was used as one in Mathew 16 .

Peter as false apostle tried to deceive all the nations of the world God is a dying Jewish man as King of kings .

The Lord rebuked Satan and forgave Peter of his blasphemy against the Son of man who forbid Jesus from doing the will of the powerful Father.

Mathew16:22-23 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

When the veil was rent other was no Jewish man sitting in what some called the Holy of holies Satan fell (Revelation 20 ) .He will be released at the end of the age (last day) to again deceive mankind God is a dying Jewish man as King of kings

When Jesus in mathew 23 walked out of the abomination of desolation the last time he declared Let it be desolate and it was. Not 70 years later when a few brick fell .No signs were given to wonder after .Believers have prophecy till the end of time

Mathew13: 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The rejection of Christ eternal God reigning. before what is called the second coming.

The antichrists (another teaching authority other than "all things written in the law and prophets> (sola scriptura) Foolish Jews gathered themselves together and demanded a fleshly King, dying mankind reign over them like every other pagan foundation . (out of sight out of mind) .Fools

1 Samael 8: 4-7 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah,And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord.And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

The reformation had come Christ returned reigning from heaven

Christ who is reigning from heaven will not come a third time .He will leave like a thief in the night on the last day ..

No signs were given . believers walk by Christ faithfulness that Peter denied

In that way never in places we worship . Believers worship in Spirit and truth (His) as it is writen. The power by which we can believe .

The gathering together like in the wilderness a moving living temple. The ceremonies were a gospel sign to the unbelieving nations .You could say they went out into the whole world with the gospel. A hope of God to drawing men to his faithful witness as it is written .

When they would make it all about their own dying flesh and not a sign to the nation he would bring judgment .

Aaron two sons on the first day having volunteered to represent the priesthood of Christ in a parable. They added. false prophecy (strange fire) . Look we did it, it proves we have eternal life.

The fire consumed them "out of sight out of mind" the ceremonial clothes not a hint of smoke .

In that way denominations have there place on a volunteer bases to display ceremonies. . some sent out as missionaries. Different priestly assignments.

 

[TMSO]

Maybe you need to read the tea leaves, the tarot cards, and consult a sorcerer also.

Are you that much against the possibility of having missed something, straight to the ad...

 

[CrowCross]

How does that at all fit in with this parable, which is simply stating that just as one can tell summer is near when a fig tree is in this condition, so you too will know that Jesus coming is nigh when you see the times in this condition. The signs of the times, and with the fig tree, the signs of the seasons. Jesus is using the fig tree for an object lesson to explain how it will be. Once you have seen these signs, just as with the fig tree it means summer is coming quickly. He isn't speaking about Israel. "Learn the parable of the fig tree." He was speaking to His disciples, so He explained what He was saying by linking it to the signs of the times, and Jesus second coming.

The verse was saying when the fig tree does it thing.....or Israel become a nation again....the generation of that time will see the time of Jacobs trouble.

 

[Arial]

Are you that much against the possibility of having missed something, straight to the ad...

I could attach that same question, incomplete as it is, to the marriage of those who are married to dispensationalism. I have two questions.

1. Why are dispensationalists so often talking about me or other posters who have a different view instead of actually refuting the other views?
(pause to define a word.)
Refute: to prove wrong by argument or evidence: to show to be
false or erroneous.

2. Is "Arial" the topic of the OP?

 

[TMSO]

The verse was saying when the fig tree does it thing.....or Israel become a nation again....the generation of that time will see the time of Jacobs trouble.

Oh, I forgot that interpretation. My mistake.

 

[CrowCross]

CrowCross ...No, as shown to you several times...Jesus comes back twice. Do I need to list the reasons again?

Scripture.

THE ASCENTION
Acts 1: 9 After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight.10 They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”
Luke 24: 50 When Jesus had led them out as far as Bethany, He lifted up His hands and blessed them.51While He was blessing them, He left them and was carried up into heaven.
Mark 16:19 After the Lord Jesuse had spoken to them, He was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.
THE SECOND COMING
Rev 19:11Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. 12He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood,c and His name is The Word of God.

14The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. 15And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter.d He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty.16And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

QUESTION
Did Jesus leave riding a white horse? It's obvious these are two separate events.

 

[CrowCross]

I could attach that same question, incomplete as it is, to the marriage of those who are married to dispensationalism. I have two questions.

1. Why are dispensationalists so often talking about me or other posters who have a different view instead of actually refuting the other views?
(pause to define a word.)
Refute: to prove wrong by argument or evidence: to show to be
false or erroneous.

2. Is "Arial" the topic of the OP?

I've been refuting your view all along. See the post above for an example.
Why do the pre-trib deniers never address the refutations?

 

[Arial]

The verse was saying when the fig tree does it thing.....or Israel become a nation again....the generation of that time will see the time of Jacobs trouble.

32 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

I do not see anywhere in the entire Olivet Discourse a single mention of a third temple being rebuilt or Israel becoming a nation, or Jacob's trouble.

That would be the natural place for Jesus to do so don't you think? He spoke of the destruction of the temple. He spoke about the end times giving signs (all of which btw have existed since the ascension and will continue to exist no doubt will get worse and worse. Which begs the question. What does Jesus mean by the end of the age? A rapture and a seven year tribulation followed by a thousand year reign of Israel restored to the types and shadows while the real is King? Or might he mean this age followed by the age to come?)

Just something to think about and since I have brought it up, dealt with without resorting to side stepping, changing the subject, or personal remarks.

 

[CrowCross]

32 “From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts out its leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

I do not see anywhere in the entire Olivet Discourse a single mention of a third temple being rebuilt or Israel becoming a nation, or Jacob's trouble.

That would be the natural place for Jesus to do so don't you think? He spoke of the destruction of the temple. He spoke about the end times giving signs (all of which btw have existed since the ascension and will continue to exist no doubt will get worse and worse. Which begs the question. What does Jesus mean by the end of the age? A rapture and a seven year tribulation followed by a thousand year reign of Israel restored to the types and shadows while the real is King? Or might he mean this age followed by the age to come?)

Just something to think about and since I have brought it up, dealt with without resorting to side stepping, changing the subject, or personal remarks.

What are..... all these things take place? Jesus mentions...beginning of the birth pains...Jesus mention He will come when..they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage..is that a description of the end of the tribulation?

 

[Mr GLee]

The verse was saying when the fig tree does it thing.....or Israel become a nation again....the generation of that time will see the time of Jacobs trouble.

Which Israel?

What kind of nation. . . racist?

Not all of Israel are born again Israel. Some remained under Jacob (deceiver) to represent the unredeemed .

Outward Jew, dying flesh and blood? Or inward born again Jew?

Jacob's trouble came when he became a new born again creature as the bride of Christ. .Israel . The father spoke of her in Isiah 62 renaming her Christian. A more befitting name to name the bride of al the nations

Satan's goal revealed in Mathew 16. to deceive mankind to believe God is a dying Jewish man as King of kings . God is not a racist man .

Simply the "Let there be" power Holy Spirit of truth and it was very good. Christ the husband knowing the way is the way . .the light on the path.----------

 

[Arial]

What are..... all these things take place? Jesus mentions...beginning of the birth pains...Jesus mention He will come when..they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage..is that a description of the end of the tribulation?

If you are referring to Matt 24:32-35, that is not a parable. If we keep the Bible consistent in its teaching on Christ's second coming, 33. So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near. at the very gates. 34. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place, must be things that happened in the lifetime of the disciples so the consummation that comes with Chris't return cannot be included in "all these things." It likely refers to those things found in v 8. The beginning of birth pains. All the elements of the prophecy occurred
in one form or another, including the fall of Jerusalem, during the lifetime of the disciples, except his return and the consummation. And they have continued and do continue even now and will do so until his return. Which suggests to me that there are two ages that Jesus and Paul speak of. This age. The age the disciples lived in and we live in. The beginning of birth pains that will lead to the age to come. The consummation and restoration of all things.

I have another question.

Why did you not refute my post #90 if you do not agree with it instead of bringing up a couple of entirely different things? Do that first and then tack the above questions onto that post and we can deal with them then.

 

[Arial]

I've been refuting your view all along. See the post above for an example.
Why do the pre-trib deniers never address the refutations?

Do you mean this post #88?

What exactly is it refuting that I have said? It was to Carbon and given as "proof" that Jesus comes back twice. Then you quote a set of scriptures and ask at the end----"Did Jesus leave riding a white horse?" Which is a question asked that had put into those scriptures your own lack of knowing the correct way to interpret writings that are made of symbolic images. You neglect entirely that John is seeing visions and these visions, just as in Daniel, are made up of symbolic images that are depicting something.

So---you refuted nothing.

 

[TMSO]

I could attach that same question, incomplete as it is, to the marriage of those who are married to dispensationalism. I have two questions.

I could say, for the umpteenth time, I'm not a dispensationalist. Or calvinist for that manner. Calvinistic, and perhaps a really leaky dispensationalist. Better then those replacement theology folks.

1. Why are dispensationalists so often talking about me or other posters who have a different view instead of actually refuting the other views?
(pause to define a word.)
Refute: to prove wrong by argument or evidence: to show to be
false or erroneous.

I... AM... NOT... A... DISPENSATIONALIST. There. I have said it again. You will have to find a dispensationalist and ask them. I am a futurist premillennialist, who has some beliefs that align with dispensationalism, just as I have beliefs that align with calvinism. I do not wear labels, and there are beliefs in either camp that I do not agree with fully.

I did not believe that the church would be rebuilt before the end, but after. So this is actually new for me. However, before this it was understood that if it was rebuilt first, it didn't change anything. The church would still be rebuilt. However, it seems more and more likey that the temple will be rebuilt, and possibly in the near future. Why not join in and keep tabs on the news once in a while? If it happens, we may be right. However, if other things don't line up, then we are missing things. I am not dead set on anything except that all of this is for Israel. God's final move, God's final chastisement, God's final judgment of His chosen people. When He is done, all that will remain are the elect remnant of Israel, the reason that the Great Tribulation is cut short.

2. Is "Arial" the topic of the OP?

No, it's the font being used. Why? (Ask a silly question, get a silly answer.)

If I used your name (I've been a little messed up/ill the past few days so my memory is a little fuzzy) it was simply because I wanted you to notice. I was serious when I said we have quite the opportunity to possibly see prophecy unfold. What could you have against that? If you are one who easily gets picked up by labels (Calvinist, Covenantalist, Reformed, etc.) you may want to be careful. The point isn't right or wrong, but watching. What is happening, what is going to happen. Perhaps signs fall into place, perhaps not. We can't really know unless we are paying attention a little.

This is for myself, but also for any lurkers/you... don't become one of those who believes something with such ferocity, that you get lost. There are a lot of people out there who have fallen for all kinds of charlatans because they latch onto things. For me, the point is to watch and see what happens. I believe Jesus may be coming very soon, given developments, however, I recognize this could point to the actual developments that may still be a little further in the future. There is no...mark your calendar. This is the date. That is a lie. Mark the season, it MAY be coming, but that's about it. Can't be sure unless one is watching.

 

[Arial]

I could say, for the umpteenth time, I'm not a dispensationalist. Or calvinist for that manner. Calvinistic, and perhaps a really leaky dispensationalist. Better then those replacement theology folks.

It is definitely a Dispensational view of eschatology that you have been presenting, irregardless of what you do or don't call yourself. It is a Dispensational framework of interpreting the entire Bible that leads to the Dispensational view of interpreting apocalyptic prophecy.

I... AM... NOT... A... DISPENSATIONALIST.

And I repeat what I said above. It is the view that is being debated, not the name. So calm down.

who has some beliefs that align with dispensationalism,

And those are the things being debated.

just as I have beliefs that align with calvinism.

Completely irrelevant.

I did not believe that the church would be rebuilt before the end, but after. So this is actually new for me. However, before this it was understood that if it was rebuilt first, it didn't change anything. The church would still be rebuilt.

Where does SCRIPTURE ever say the church will be rebuilt or need to be rebuilt?

I am not dead set on anything except that all of this is for Israel.

National/ethnic Israel? Or the true descendants of Abraham---all those in Christ?

When He is done, all that will remain are the elect remnant of Israel, the reason that the Great Tribulation is cut short.

Define Great Tribulation. And support the definition biblically.

No, it's the font being used. Why? (Ask a silly question, get a silly answer.)

The font? It was a rhetorical question meant to end what was happening.

If I used your name (I've been a little messed up/ill the past few days so my memory is a little fuzzy) it was simply because I wanted you to notice

Oh my gosh. See above.
Here is what you said in response to a post I made all because after you posted something about consulting signs and stars and whatnot to see when Jesus will return I suggested you also check with the teas leaves.

Are you that much against the possibility of having missed something, straight to the ad...

If you are one who easily gets picked up by labels (Calvinist, Covenantalist, Reformed, etc.) you may want to be careful.

Talking about me again.

This is for myself, but also for any lurkers/you... don't become one of those who believes something with such ferocity, that you get lost. There are a lot of people out there who have fallen for all kinds of charlatans because they latch onto things. For me, the point is to watch and see what happens. I believe Jesus may be coming very soon, given developments, however, I recognize this could point to the actual developments that may still be a little further in the future. There is no...mark your calendar. This is the date. That is a lie. Mark the season, it MAY be coming, but that's about it. Can't be sure unless one is watching.

It is always true that he MAY becoming at any moment. But according to Jesus looking for signs is not what we are told to do. According to Jesus he said be ready. He would come as a thief in the night, when you least expect it.

So what do you say Jesus meant by "be ready"?

 

[CrowCross]

Do you mean this post #88?

What exactly is it refuting that I have said? It was to Carbon and given as "proof" that Jesus comes back twice. Then you quote a set of scriptures and ask at the end----"Did Jesus leave riding a white horse?" Which is a question asked that had put into those scriptures your own lack of knowing the correct way to interpret writings that are made of symbolic images. You neglect entirely that John is seeing visions and these visions, just as in Daniel, are made up of symbolic images that are depicting something.

So---you refuted nothing.

Even if Jesus isn't returning on a white horse..and it's symbolic....Jesus didn't leave in that symbolic description given in Rev.

 

[Arial]

Even if Jesus isn't returning on a white horse..and it's symbolic....Jesus didn't leave in that symbolic description given in Rev.

Jesus did not leave in any symbolic depiction. His disciples witnessed it. Your sentence makes no sense.