Why Our Will Is Not Free to Choose Christ

[Johan]

It misapplies grace, reduces it to a possibility and not an actuality. It in effect no longer is grace as it is only effectual if one makes the right choice.

But how can a sinful being choose to come to the Holy just because they want to? Would that not be the choice of the Holy, the sovereign God, to remove their sin so they can come in, and do come in? We do not come to God, we are alienated from Him. He comes to us.

Agreed-after being regenerated is the will still bound? Not able or capable of making choices?

An aside-how do you and I KNOW we are part of the elect and do we have assurance re our salvation?

I am a Baptist-kinda new to Calvin-just to let you know re my position.
Johann.

 

[Mr GLee]

Agreed-after being regenerated is the will still bound? Not able or capable of making choices?

An aside-how do you and I KNOW we are part of the elect and do we have assurance re our salvation?

I am a Baptist-kinda new to Calvin-just to let you know re my position.
Johann.

I would offer. . .

Its the power needed in making decisions bound by the living word of God . The daily bread the disciples knew not of empowered by God to both hear the word power to do his will to His good pleasure

Christ in us yoked with him our daily our burden made light with a living abiding hope beyond the grave. The wonder bread called hidden manna or sweeter than honey bread

 

[Johan]

I would offer. . .

Its the power needed in making decisions bound by the living word of God . The daily bread the disciples knew not of empowered by God to both hear the word power to do his will to His good pleasure

Christ in us yoked with him our daily our burden made light with a living abiding hope beyond the grave. The wonder bread called hidden manna or sweeter than honey bread

I have provided Scripture references and don't quite understand your line of reasoning-since you don't offer Scriptures-and you are not on topic.
Thanks
Johann.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Unmerited does not mean unconditional. If I offered to send you a million dollars if you would simply send me your name and address, and if you sent me your name and address and I then sent you a million dollars, would you consider that merited? Would you really try to say that you earned that million dollars? Would you claim that my gift to you was not a gift of grace because you satisfied the conditions?

No. I wouldn't. I believe you misunderstand me. I do not believe reliance upon the work of Christ is meritorious. Neither do I believe a choice in Christ is meritorious. We are relying upon the work of another.

However, I do believe some Arminians believe it is a meritorious choice. Some view repentance as embracing their potential. I do not.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Grace empowers us to make a choice some murrur what about me?? They forget where the power comes from to both believe and do the will . Jesus did it with delight

Philippians 2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

It was God's good pleasure to orchestrate the Atonement. It was God's good pleasure to preach to the Gospel to every living creature.

Grace was shown in all of these actions relative to "God's good pleasure". I don't see how what I said is contrary to Grace.

These actions I mentioned empower. I do believe that you're find value in your choice by excluding those just like you from making that same choice.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Which part informs us that God gave the son more than as many he did give to the Son?

John 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 8:30As he spake these words, many believed on him.

Ask one self who gave us power to see beyond what the eyes see? Who gave mankind the lying power

Notice the lack of power until they received Him. Did you notice that?

Recieve is the cause, empowering is the effect. All by Grace.

 

[Johan]

Grace empowers us to make a choice some murrur what about me?? They forget where the power comes from to both believe and do the will . Jesus did it with delight

Philippians 2:13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

"work out your salvation"
This verb is a mathematical term used of a problem brought to its conclusion. Its form is present middle (deponent) imperative plural.

Verses 12-13 have been the focus of much theological discussion relating to the sovereignty of God, which is emphasized in Phil. 2:13 (cf. Phil. 1:6), and the free will of human persons which is called on in Phil. 2:12. The term "salvation" in Phil. 2:12

1. refers to a believer's spiritual relationship with Christ. Paul has just mentioned becoming a Christian in Phil. 2:9-10. This is another example of the tension between sovereignty and free-will, both initial and ongoing (cf. Phil. 2:16)

2. does not refer to eternal spiritual salvation, but either to

a. OT "physical deliverance"

b. "wholeness," as it does in Phil. 1:19

This aspect of salvation as "wholeness" can also be seen in Acts 4:10; 14:9; 27:34. The initiating grace of God and the required faith response of a repentant human are clearly seen in Eph. 2:8-9. Obviously, believers do not work for their salvation, but after they are saved, they cooperate with the Spirit to live in Christlike maturity (cf. Phil. 2:14-17; Eph. 2:10; 5:18). Salvation is all of God and totally free but it requires an active, costly, repentant, continuing faith response (cf. Matt. 13:44-46).

The context militates against an individualistic interpretation because the "your" in Phil. 2:12, "you" in Phil. 2:13, and all the verbs are plural, which refers to the entire Philippian church, not to an individual's spiritual salvation. If it did refer to spiritual salvation it is corporate (cf. Phil. 1:28) and progressive (cf. 1 Cor. 1:18;15:2; 2 Cor. 2:15). The thrust of the passage may have been to encourage them to trust in God's presence and purpose for the church at Philippi (cf. Gal. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:2).

"with fear and trembling"
This was an OT idiom of respect and awe towards God (cf. Ps. 2:11; 119:120). It is used several times in Paul's writings (cf. 1 Cor. 2:3; 2 Cor. 7:15; Eph. 6:5). Believers need to remember the transcendent Holiness of God!

2:13 "for it is God who is at work in you" "God" is placed first in the sentence for emphasis. The term "work" is a present active participle which refers to "continuous effective work" (cf. Gal. 5:6). This is a different compound term from Phil. 2:12 but the same root. The phrase "in you" is plural and may mean "among you," which focuses on God's activity in the life of the Church (cf. Col. 1:27).

NASB"both to will and to work for His good pleasure"
NKJV"both to will and to do His good pleasure"
NRSV"both to will and to work for his good pleasure
TEV"to make you willing and able to obey his own purpose"
NJB"for his own generous purpose, gives you the intention and the powers to act"

Believers' attitudes and actions are produced by the Spirit. The present active participle of Phil. 2:13a is repeated as a present active infinitive in Phil. 2:13b. This is the paradox of a sovereign God and a covenant-making God. Salvation is a free gift and a cost-everything commitment! Paul is a good example of God's undeserved grace (cf. 1 Cor. 15:10). In this context (cf. Gal. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:2) God's will is for a united, loving, witnessing, effective church.

 

[Arial]

Agreed-after being regenerated is the will still bound? Not able or capable of making choices?

It was never bound in the sense of not being able or capable of making choices. The will is bound by only being able to do what we most desire to do. It will not do what we do not desire to do. I.e. as seen in a day to day action; we may desire to complete a project without stopping, but our greater desire is to take a break and do nothing or go have fun.

The human condition before regeneration is bound by sin. Paul tells us we are slaves to sin. The regenerate man is a slave to Christ and not sin. (1 Peter 2:16; Romans 6 and 7) We still at this time live in our flesh, still have a nature to sin, and still will from time to time sin. We will not live an unrepentant lifestyle of sin, which would indicate a professed union with Christ when there is no heart union, real union, with Him through genuine saving faith. Keeping in mind we all grow in faith at different levels. We are always individuals and are individuals to God.

The difference regarding sin for the regenerate is that they are sealed in Christ by the Holy Spirit, have been fully justified and reconciled to God by the work of Jesus, and therefore have His righteousness counted as their own. Though we can and still do sin, we are not a slave of sin, but belong to Christ, purchased by Him with the sacrifice of His body and the shedding of His blood,, the blood of the new covenant.

Sin can no longer condemn us before God and death can no longer hold us. Jesus defeated those two enemies on the cross and in His resurrection, for us. He took the just punishment for our sins and for the imputed sin of Adam, in our place.

An aside-how do you and I KNOW we are part of the elect and do we have assurance re our salvation?

We know by what it is we believe. It may be very basic at the beginning, we start out as newborn babies. For the more mature believer, or intermediate one, do we believe in the person and work of Jesus as given in the scriptures? Do we know we need a Savior? Do we know there is only One and Jesus is that One? Do we believe He came from God, is God the Word come in the flesh as Jesus the Son? Do we believe what we read in the Bible about Him? Could we walk away from believing in Him and return to who we were before?

Keeping in mind again, that we all face times of doubt and of dark nights of the soul that take shape in various form. In these we grow as we wait upon the Lord who will again strengthen our heart. And we can be reborn and thus saved even if we believe that we made that choice. That is mostly what we have been taught, and usually that is what it looks like from our perspective. And the reason that is possible is that God always saves those He has determined to save, in whatever place or by whatever means, they hear the gospel and when they hear it, they believe it. And then he does the growing of our faith in our heart through the knowledge He gives in His word. (1 Cor 3:7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes it grow.

I am a Baptist-kinda new to Calvin-just to let you know re my position.

It is always helpful to know where a person is coming from, especially when they are asking questions. It gives the proper frame to the answer. Many an argument could be avoided if people would be clear on their purpose, a discussion or an argument? So thank you.

 

[Johan]

It was never bound in the sense of not being able or capable of making choices. The will is bound by only being able to do what we most desire to do. It will not do what we do not desire to do. I.e. as seen in a day to day action; we may desire to complete a project without stopping, but our greater desire is to take a break and do nothing or go have fun.

Thank you for this clarification-my brother is reading

Bondage of the Will - Martin Luther-and is STILL unsure re his salvation.​

The human condition before regeneration is bound by sin. Paul tells us we are slaves to sin. The regenerate man is a slave to Christ and not sin. (1 Peter 2:16; Romans 6 and 7) We still at this time live in our flesh, still have a nature to sin, and still will from time to time sin. We will not live an unrepentant lifestyle of sin, which would indicate a professed union with Christ when there is no heart union, real union, with Him through genuine saving faith. Keeping in mind we all grow in faith at different levels. We are always individuals and are individuals to God.

Praise God for Romans 6, 7 and 8-I take it you mean believers cannot habitually LIVE in a STATE of willful sinning-that would mean they were never regenerated in the first place.

We know by what it is we believe. It may be very basic at the beginning, we start out as newborn babies. For the more mature believer, or intermediate one, do we believe in the person and work of Jesus as given in the scriptures? Do we know we need a Savior? Do we know there is only One and Jesus is that One? Do we believe He came from God, is God the Word come in the flesh as Jesus the Son? Do we believe what we read in the Bible about Him? Could we walk away from believing in Him and return to who we were before?

Absolutely brother.

Keeping in mind again, that we all face times of doubt and of dark nights of the soul that take shape in various form. In these we grow as we wait upon the Lord who will again strengthen our heart. And we can be reborn and thus saved even if we believe that we made that choice. That is mostly what we have been taught, and usually that is what it looks like from our perspective. And the reason that is possible is that God always saves those He has determined to save, in whatever place or by whatever means, they hear the gospel and when they hear it, they believe it. And then he does the growing of our faith in our heart through the knowledge He gives in His word. (1 Cor 3:7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes it grow.

And here it is-my brother is a mature believer in Yeshua HaMashiach-yet still have doubts and dark nights re his salvation.


"even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one"
The emphasis here is on the divine element, not human response or performance. But the goal of predestination is holiness (cf. Eph. 1:4; 2:10), not a privileged position, not the exercise of personal privilege or personal preference. Every believer is equipped by God for service in and for the church (cf. 1 Cor. 12:7,11; Eph. 4:11-13).

The exact identification of "the Lord" is difficult. Usually it is God the Father who calls to salvation. But Paul has used "Lord" several times already in 1 Corinthians to refer to Jesus (cf. 1 Cor. 1:2,3,7,8,9,10; 2:8). However, several times Paul quotes an OT passage where Lord refers to YHWH (cf. 1 Cor. 1:31; 2:16; 3:20). The ambiguity is clearly seen in 1 Cor. 2:16 where Lord in an OT quoteis used in parallel to "the mind of Christ."

The phrase "to each one" also clearly shows the difficulty in determining who is being addressed. Is it the leaders like Paul and Apollos, the believers in Corinth, or all believers?

All believers are called and gifted (i.e., Eph. 4:11-12), but some are also called and gifted to lead (cf. Num. 16:3).
Is the context exclusively corporate or is there an individual emphasis (i.e., certain leaders)?

3:6 "planted. . .watered" Paul is using agricultural imagery. The gospel is the seed (i.e., Matthew 13), but humans sow it and nurture it.

The Great Commission (i.e., Matt. 28:19-20) has two co-equal tasks.

evangelism
discipleship
Paul started the church by preaching the gospel and Apollos taught the church. Both are crucial and inseparable!

"but God was causing the growth"
This is an IMPERFECT TENSE which means continual action in past time. Apollos' and Paul's actions were one-time events, but God's actions are continuing (cf. 1 Cor. 3:7).

"but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor" The concept of rewards is developed in 1 Cor. 3:10-15. In discussing rewards see fuller note at 1 Cor. 3:14.

This idea of rewards for service is related to the spiritual principle delineated in 1 Cor. 3:13 and Gal. 6:7. We reap what we sow (cf. 2 Cor. 9:6).

A related theological issue is degrees of rewards. Knowledge of the gospel energized by the Spirit and the call to leadership within God's church brings a greater responsibility (cf. Luke 12:48). The NT seems to teach degrees of rewards and punishments (cf. Matt. 10:15; 11:22,24; 18:6; 25:21,23; Mark 12:40; Luke 12:47-48; 20:47; James 3:1).
Utley

Thank you for the response-you almost sounded like a Baptist!
Johann.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Thank you for this clarification-my brother is reading

Bondage of the Will - Martin Luther-and is STILL unsure re his salvation.​

Praise God for Romans 6, 7 and 8-I take it you mean believers cannot habitually LIVE in a STATE of willful sinning-that would mean they were never regenerated in the first place.

Absolutely brother.


And here it is-my brother is a mature believer in Yeshua HaMashiach-yet still have doubts and dark nights re his salvation.


"even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one"
The emphasis here is on the divine element, not human response or performance. But the goal of predestination is holiness (cf. Eph. 1:4; 2:10), not a privileged position, not the exercise of personal privilege or personal preference. Every believer is equipped by God for service in and for the church (cf. 1 Cor. 12:7,11; Eph. 4:11-13).

The exact identification of "the Lord" is difficult. Usually it is God the Father who calls to salvation. But Paul has used "Lord" several times already in 1 Corinthians to refer to Jesus (cf. 1 Cor. 1:2,3,7,8,9,10; 2:8). However, several times Paul quotes an OT passage where Lord refers to YHWH (cf. 1 Cor. 1:31; 2:16; 3:20). The ambiguity is clearly seen in 1 Cor. 2:16 where Lord in an OT quoteis used in parallel to "the mind of Christ."

The phrase "to each one" also clearly shows the difficulty in determining who is being addressed. Is it the leaders like Paul and Apollos, the believers in Corinth, or all believers?

All believers are called and gifted (i.e., Eph. 4:11-12), but some are also called and gifted to lead (cf. Num. 16:3).
Is the context exclusively corporate or is there an individual emphasis (i.e., certain leaders)?

3:6 "planted. . .watered" Paul is using agricultural imagery. The gospel is the seed (i.e., Matthew 13), but humans sow it and nurture it.

The Great Commission (i.e., Matt. 28:19-20) has two co-equal tasks.

evangelism
discipleship
Paul started the church by preaching the gospel and Apollos taught the church. Both are crucial and inseparable!

"but God was causing the growth"
This is an IMPERFECT TENSE which means continual action in past time. Apollos' and Paul's actions were one-time events, but God's actions are continuing (cf. 1 Cor. 3:7).

"but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor" The concept of rewards is developed in 1 Cor. 3:10-15. In discussing rewards see fuller note at 1 Cor. 3:14.

This idea of rewards for service is related to the spiritual principle delineated in 1 Cor. 3:13 and Gal. 6:7. We reap what we sow (cf. 2 Cor. 9:6).

A related theological issue is degrees of rewards. Knowledge of the gospel energized by the Spirit and the call to leadership within God's church brings a greater responsibility (cf. Luke 12:48). The NT seems to teach degrees of rewards and punishments (cf. Matt. 10:15; 11:22,24; 18:6; 25:21,23; Mark 12:40; Luke 12:47-48; 20:47; James 3:1).
Utley

Thank you for the response-you almost sounded like a Baptist!
Johann.

The Spirit of God is the answer.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Many people ask the wrong person. I've never sought the confirmation of the Spirit of God in my sonship and never gotten anything but peace. The Spirit of God gives us peace.

Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

 

[Arial]

It is precisely what Romans 5 says. To read it otherwise is to change the meaning of words midway in the sentences. There is no legitimate exegesis that would allow that. But hey, I understand that you would not want to discuss it; it totally destroys the entire Calvinist/Reformed soteriology.

I have given a thorough exegesis Of Romans 5 a number of times. With an exposition of the scriptures and referring back to other portions of scripture. Possibly for you. But whether I have or haven't done that with you is beside the point. If I have, there is no point in doing it again. If I haven't, there is no point in doing it for the first time. You neither listen nor hear nor have any intention of doing so. I do not think that is your purpose in being here.

If I thought that a legitimate exegesis of the chapter would produce a conversation on what I said, and a refutation of it since you disagree obviously, in an exegetical, expositional, way, I would do so. But I would not get that back. I would only get back your poorly veiled insults, a lot of pomposity, a factual declaration of your view with no support whatsoever. If history is any example and it is as far as I am concerned in my dealings with you. So it is just more of the same----meaningless---when you fall back on the argument that I turned aside from the conversation with you because I could not provide a legitimate exegesis of Romans 5. You would first have to provide one yourself. Lets see you do it. Then the conversation could continue as a conversation and not a platform.

Actually, everything in scripture supports that fact that the spirit that God forms in each of us is not dead. That anyone could believe the spirit that God forms in each of us is dead is absolutely grotesque. I honestly do not understand how anyone could believe that God would do such a thing.

A straw man argument as no one has said that the spirit God forms in each of us is dead.

 

[JIM]

I have given a thorough exegesis Of Romans 5 a number of times. With an exposition of the scriptures and referring back to other portions of scripture. Possibly for you. But whether I have or haven't done that with you is beside the point. If I have, there is no point in doing it again. If I haven't, there is no point in doing it for the first time. You neither listen nor hear nor have any intention of doing so. I do not think that is your purpose in being here.

Comments deleted for being about the poster and not the post.

A straw man argument as no one has said that the spirit God forms in each of us is dead.

What do you think original sin is if not the spirit in the unborn or the just born dead in the sin of Adam?

 

[Mr GLee]

"work out your salvation"
This verb is a mathematical term used of a problem brought to its conclusion. Its form is present middle (deponent) imperative plural.

Verses 12-13 have been the focus of much theological discussion relating to the sovereignty of God, which is emphasized in Phil. 2:13 (cf. Phil. 1:6), and the free will of human persons which is called on in Phil. 2:12. The term "salvation" in Phil. 2:12

1. refers to a believer's spiritual relationship with Christ. Paul has just mentioned becoming a Christian in Phil. 2:9-10. This is another example of the tension between sovereignty and free-will, both initial and ongoing (cf. Phil. 2:16)

2. does not refer to eternal spiritual salvation, but either to

a. OT "physical deliverance"

b. "wholeness," as it does in Phil. 1:19

This aspect of salvation as "wholeness" can also be seen in Acts 4:10; 14:9; 27:34. The initiating grace of God and the required faith response of a repentant human are clearly seen in Eph. 2:8-9. Obviously, believers do not work for their salvation, but after they are saved, they cooperate with the Spirit to live in Christlike maturity (cf. Phil. 2:14-17; Eph. 2:10; 5:18). Salvation is all of God and totally free but it requires an active, costly, repentant, continuing faith response (cf. Matt. 13:44-46).

The context militates against an individualistic interpretation because the "your" in Phil. 2:12, "you" in Phil. 2:13, and all the verbs are plural, which refers to the entire Philippian church, not to an individual's spiritual salvation. If it did refer to spiritual salvation it is corporate (cf. Phil. 1:28) and progressive (cf. 1 Cor. 1:18;15:2; 2 Cor. 2:15). The thrust of the passage may have been to encourage them to trust in God's presence and purpose for the church at Philippi (cf. Gal. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:2).

"with fear and trembling"
This was an OT idiom of respect and awe towards God (cf. Ps. 2:11; 119:120). It is used several times in Paul's writings (cf. 1 Cor. 2:3; 2 Cor. 7:15; Eph. 6:5). Believers need to remember the transcendent Holiness of God!

2:13 "for it is God who is at work in you" "God" is placed first in the sentence for emphasis. The term "work" is a present active participle which refers to "continuous effective work" (cf. Gal. 5:6). This is a different compound term from Phil. 2:12 but the same root. The phrase "in you" is plural and may mean "among you," which focuses on God's activity in the life of the Church (cf. Col. 1:27).

NASB"both to will and to work for His good pleasure"
NKJV"both to will and to do His good pleasure"
NRSV"both to will and to work for his good pleasure
TEV"to make you willing and able to obey his own purpose"
NJB"for his own generous purpose, gives you the intention and the powers to act"

Believers' attitudes and actions are produced by the Spirit. The present active participle of Phil. 2:13a is repeated as a present active infinitive in Phil. 2:13b. This is the paradox of a sovereign God and a covenant-making God. Salvation is a free gift and a cost-everything commitment! Paul is a good example of God's undeserved grace (cf. 1 Cor. 15:10). In this context (cf. Gal. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:2) God's will is for a united, loving, witnessing, effective church.

Free will is to do the will of the father and finish it .It's the kind of daily bread the disciples knew not of at first until they were empowered by it to both hear God and do it to his power called good pleasure . Jesus did it with delight some murrur like Jonah who wanted to die knowing the power of the gospel .

Thinking God is served by those who have no power living in earthen bodies of death would seem to be a oral tradition

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[Arial]

Thank you for this clarification-my brother is reading

Bondage of the Will - Martin Luther-and is STILL unsure re his salvation.​

It took Luther a long time too. It shows he does not take it lightly or flippantly, as many do. He is pursuing and persevering. I have no way of knowing why he is unsure so all I can say is encourage him, help where you are able, and pray, pray and pray. Mainly for God to give him what he needs, because God and only God knows what that is.

Praise God for Romans 6, 7 and 8-I take it you mean believers cannot habitually LIVE in a STATE of willful sinning-that would mean they were never regenerated in the first place.

That is not for anyone to say. We cannot see into another heart, we don't know God's specific purposes with anyone, we don't know the best and perfect way, only God knows these things. And I qualified a life style of sin with an unrepentant life style of sin. Meaning they never recognize sin as sin and even if they did they have no desire to repent of it but rather to keep on doing it. Which is the same way an unbeliever looks at life.

Absolutely brother.

That should be "absolutely sister."

And here it is-my brother is a mature believer in Yeshua HaMashiach-yet still have doubts and dark nights re his salvation.

God may have a purpose in that. I say may, but that is my lack of knowledge of both your brother and my inability to see into the mind of God. But it is something to keep in mind, as I can see you have a great concern for your brother and what He is going thorough.

"even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one"
The emphasis here is on the divine element, not human response or performance. But the goal of predestination is holiness (cf. Eph. 1:4; 2:10), not a privileged position, not the exercise of personal privilege or personal preference. Every believer is equipped by God for service in and for the church (cf. 1 Cor. 12:7,11; Eph. 4:11-13).

True.

The exact identification of "the Lord" is difficult. Usually it is God the Father who calls to salvation. But Paul has used "Lord" several times already in 1 Corinthians to refer to Jesus (cf. 1 Cor. 1:2,3,7,8,9,10; 2:8). However, several times Paul quotes an OT passage where Lord refers to YHWH (cf. 1 Cor. 1:31; 2:16; 3:20). The ambiguity is clearly seen in 1 Cor. 2:16 where Lord in an OT quoteis used in parallel to "the mind of Christ."

The phrase "to each one" also clearly shows the difficulty in determining who is being addressed. Is it the leaders like Paul and Apollos, the believers in Corinth, or all believers?

Jesus is God. The Word (John 1) who was God and was with God. The word rendered with of which there are many in the Greek containing different nuances, denotes a face to face. So the second "person" within the triune God. The Word came in the flesh to redeem those in the flesh. Jesus.

In those passages Paul is defending his apostleship against those who were undermining it. So even though he was referring to Apollos and himself in particular, that does not change the fact that God does the growing, be it the gathering of the elect through the gospel (the elect being those who make up the church) or growth in faith of the individual. It is all of God.

"but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor" The concept of rewards is developed in 1 Cor. 3:10-15. In discussing rewards see fuller note at 1 Cor. 3:14.

This idea of rewards for service is related to the spiritual principle delineated in 1 Cor. 3:13 and Gal. 6:7. We reap what we sow (cf. 2 Cor. 9:6).

A related theological issue is degrees of rewards. Knowledge of the gospel energized by the Spirit and the call to leadership within God's church brings a greater responsibility (cf. Luke 12:48). The NT seems to teach degrees of rewards and punishments (cf. Matt. 10:15; 11:22,24; 18:6; 25:21,23; Mark 12:40; Luke 12:47-48; 20:47; James 3:1).

A different topic.

Thank you for the response-you almost sounded like a Baptist!

I am not any anything denomination specific. My beliefs largely conform, as far as I know, with Reformed Baptists and Reformed Presbyterians. It is my understanding that Calvinist Baptist are dispensational in their end times views, and Reformed is more amalennial/idealist, at least that is the way I lean.

 

[Mr GLee]

"work out your salvation"
This verb is a mathematical term used of a problem brought to its conclusion. Its form is present middle (deponent) imperative plural.

Verses 12-13 have been the focus of much theological discussion relating to the sovereignty of God, which is emphasized in Phil. 2:13 (cf. Phil. 1:6), and the free will of human persons which is called on in Phil. 2:12. The term "salvation" in Phil. 2:12

1. refers to a believer's spiritual relationship with Christ. Paul has just mentioned becoming a Christian in Phil. 2:9-10. This is another example of the tension between sovereignty and free-will, both initial and ongoing (cf. Phil. 2:16)

2. does not refer to eternal spiritual salvation, but either to

a. OT "physical deliverance"

b. "wholeness," as it does in Phil. 1:19

This aspect of salvation as "wholeness" can also be seen in Acts 4:10; 14:9; 27:34. The initiating grace of God and the required faith response of a repentant human are clearly seen in Eph. 2:8-9. Obviously, believers do not work for their salvation, but after they are saved, they cooperate with the Spirit to live in Christlike maturity (cf. Phil. 2:14-17; Eph. 2:10; 5:18). Salvation is all of God and totally free but it requires an active, costly, repentant, continuing faith response (cf. Matt. 13:44-46).

The context militates against an individualistic interpretation because the "your" in Phil. 2:12, "you" in Phil. 2:13, and all the verbs are plural, which refers to the entire Philippian church, not to an individual's spiritual salvation. If it did refer to spiritual salvation it is corporate (cf. Phil. 1:28) and progressive (cf. 1 Cor. 1:18;15:2; 2 Cor. 2:15). The thrust of the passage may have been to encourage them to trust in God's presence and purpose for the church at Philippi (cf. Gal. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:2).

"with fear and trembling"
This was an OT idiom of respect and awe towards God (cf. Ps. 2:11; 119:120). It is used several times in Paul's writings (cf. 1 Cor. 2:3; 2 Cor. 7:15; Eph. 6:5). Believers need to remember the transcendent Holiness of God!

2:13 "for it is God who is at work in you" "God" is placed first in the sentence for emphasis. The term "work" is a present active participle which refers to "continuous effective work" (cf. Gal. 5:6). This is a different compound term from Phil. 2:12 but the same root. The phrase "in you" is plural and may mean "among you," which focuses on God's activity in the life of the Church (cf. Col. 1:27).

NASB"both to will and to work for His good pleasure"
NKJV"both to will and to do His good pleasure"
NRSV"both to will and to work for his good pleasure
TEV"to make you willing and able to obey his own purpose"
NJB"for his own generous purpose, gives you the intention and the powers to act"

Believers' attitudes and actions are produced by the Spirit. The present active participle of Phil. 2:13a is repeated as a present active infinitive in Phil. 2:13b. This is the paradox of a sovereign God and a covenant-making God. Salvation is a free gift and a cost-everything commitment! Paul is a good example of God's undeserved grace (cf. 1 Cor. 15:10). In this context (cf. Gal. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:2) God's will is for a united, loving, witnessing, effective church.

It is the Father who worked in the Son the Son of man. Jesus had no power to hear the unseen Father and therefore finish the work of the Father .He did it with delight some like Jonas mumurred knowing the outcome of the gospel . . .salvation

 

[Johan]

Jesus had no power to hear the unseen Father and therefore finish the work of the Father

Can you provide Scripture references to this statement?

 

[Johan]

That is not for anyone to say. We cannot see into another heart, we don't know God's specific purposes with anyone, we don't know the best and perfect way, only God knows these things. And I qualified a life style of sin with an unrepentant life style of sin. Meaning they never recognize sin as sin and even if they did they have no desire to repent of it but rather to keep on doing it. Which is the same way an unbeliever looks at life.

I said-"A believer living in a state of habitual sin" cannot be a believer-hence -
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

[Mr GLee]

Can you provide Scripture references to this statement?

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Dying Flesh signified as sinful has no power .jesu said of his own dying flesh profits for nothing (John 6)

What does profit is the living word of God his word is Spirit life giving where no life existed previously. . . many disciples who were trusting the the tempoal flesh walked away with no faith that could please God. . not little none . He gives us little faith as power. . . . the golden hidden measure

 

[Arial]

I said-"A believer living in a state of habitual sin" cannot be a believer-hence -
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

A believer may go through a period or periods of sin for many reasons. Those with addictions that are named as sins by the Bible may wrestle with this addiction for a time. But they know it is sin and they hate it, because it is the Holy Spirit who convicts and God who corrects, and struggle to overcome it. We don't know what is in their heart or what God is doing in them. So habitual sin is not the measure, but a complete lack of repentance. And even that does not mean God will never save them.

 

[Mr GLee]

A believer may go through a period or periods of sin for many reasons. Those with addictions that are named as sins by the Bible may wrestle with this addiction for a time. But they know it is sin and they hate it, because it is the Holy Spirit who convicts and God who corrects, and struggle to overcome it. We don't know what is in their heart or what God is doing in them. So habitual sin is not the measure, but a complete lack of repentance. And even that does not mean God will never save them.

Yes he called them foolish Galatians returning them into fellowship thier first love hearing and believe God not seen .