Can the Logical and Temporal Orders be the same?

[ReverendRV]

I'm still confoosed how the temporal and the eternal interact with each other

The Temporal and Eternal interact with one another in Christ. That's our precedent...


But I don't mean the Orders are interacting...

 

[prism]

The Temporal and Eternal interact with one another in Christ. That's our precedent...

The Incarnation.

But I don't mean the Orders are interacting...

For something to follow 'logically' or temporally' is probably closer to my 'stuckness'.

 

[ReverendRV]

The Incarnation.

For something to follow 'logically' or temporally' is probably closer to my 'stuckness'.

Well, change things up for a while; focus only on the Temporal Order...

 

[Josheb]

Can a person receive the new birth without being forgiven?

No.

Can Regeneration and Forgiveness happen at the same time, and both be First without one being second?

Sure. Correlation is not causation.

Can The New Birth and Justification through Faith both happen in the twinkling of an eye simultaneously, in a way we cannot experientially know which came first?

I do not think so. While the new birth that comes from above and salvific faith are both gifts, absent the new birth any gifted faith is useless. Absent the new birth that faith would be exercised by the still-sinful flesh and that would salvifically unqualifying (despite synergist protests to the contrary). A number of problems arise from that position (God gifting faith to those with no new birth). For one, God would be gifting to the dead. For another, God would be gifting with an expectation of responsible and effective use, yet He wants nothing from the sinful flesh. In addition, should the not-born-again-but-gifted-faith not use that gift salvifically then 1) God would have acted fruitlessly and 2) we'd have a bunch of folks walking around gifted but not saved. Furthermore, depending on the definition of justification (I hold it to be the condition in which a person can stand before God in judgment to plead his/her case) justification by faith absent the new birth would mean the case pled would be one of sinful flesh and/or intellectual assent and no such creature is able to stand before God, nor is that case going to withstand judgment. The plea the born anew present in Christ crucified and resurrected, here I stand covered in your Son's blood because otherwise I could not do thusly stand in your presence.

Revelation 7:13-17
Then one of the elders responded, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?" I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason, they are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. They will no longer hunger nor thirst, nor will the sun [c]beat down on them, nor any scorching heat; for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.”

Washing in the Lamb's blood turns our garments white.