Which person in the Trinity is the Judge?

[Runningman]

God is not a man:

1. “God is not a man” – Numbers 23:19
2. “For I am God, and not man,” – Hosea 11:9

Jesus is called a man many times:

1. “a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.” – John 8:40
2. “a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know.” – Acts 2:22
3. “He will judge the world with justice by the Man He has appointed.” – Acts 17:31
4. “the man Christ Jesus,” – 1 Timothy 2:5

God is not a son of man:

1. “God is not a man…or a son of man,” – Numbers 23:19

The Bible calls Jesus “the son of man”:

1. “so the Son of Man will be” – Matthew 12:40
2. “For the Son of Man will come” – Matthew 16:27
3. “the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” – Matthew 16:28

“Son of man” is used to refer to people:

1. “the son of man, who is but a worm!” – Job 25:6
2. “the son of man You have raised up for Yourself.” – Psalm 80:17
3. “O LORD, what is man, that You regard him, the son of man that You think of him?” – Psalm 144:3
4. “Son of man,” He said to me, “stand up on your feet and I will speak to you.” – Ezekiel 2:1

Jesus denied being God:

1. “Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone” – Luke 18:19
2. “Why do you ask Me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good.” – Matthew 19:17

Contrary to the accusations of blasphemy against him, Jesus said he is a man:
1. “you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.” – John 8:40

God is greater than Jesus:

1. “the Father is greater than I.” – John 14:28
2. “My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all.” – John 10:29

Jesus never instructed anyone to worship him:

1. “When you pray, say: ‘Father, hallowed be Your name.” – Luke 11:2
2. “in that day you will ask Me nothing. Most assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you.” – John 16:23
3. “the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.” John 4:23

Jesus worshipped the Only True God:

1. “ that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” John 17:3
2. “He went out to the mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.” – Luke 6:12
3. “the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve,” – Matthew 20:28

Jesus prayed to God:

1. “He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed,” – Matthew 26:39
2. “in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear,” – Hebrews 5:7

The disciples did not believe Jesus is God:

1. “Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know” – Acts 2:22
2. “The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, “ – Acts 3:13
3. “God, having raised up His Servant Jesus” – Acts 3:26

The disciples prayed to God:

1. “they raised their voice to God with one accord and said: “Lord, You are God, who made heaven and earth and the sea, and all that is in them,” – Acts 4:24
2. “ Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed,” – Acts 4:27
3. “Your holy Servant Jesus.” – Acts 4:30

Jesus is God’s servant:

1. ““Behold! My Servant whom I have chosen, My Beloved in whom My soul is well pleased!” – Matthew 12:18

Jesus cannot do anything of himself:

1. “the Son can do nothing of Himself,” – John 5:19
2. “I can of Myself do nothing.” – John 5:30

God Gave Jesus the power to forgive sins:

1. “But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...” – Matthew 9:6
2. “Now when the multitudes saw it, they marveled and glorified God, who had given such power to men.” – Matthew 9:8

 

[Runningman]

All talk and no substance of any value for a sincere child of God.

Something you are not, evidenced by your disparaging attitude toward Scripture.

 

[Runningman]

Jesus of Nazareth is the complex Person of God and man – He possesses both complete natures.

Jesus is never called a god man in the Bible. So for full disclosure, you should represent that as your private beliefs rather than an objective statement about who Jesus is.

Now, in Scripture, Jesus is called a man many times and men are not God. Do you agree that a human didn't create the universe?

 

[grace2]

God is not a man:

1. “God is not a man” – Numbers 23:19
2. “For I am God, and not man,” – Hosea 11:9

Jesus is called a man many times:

1. “a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.” – John 8:40
2. “a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know.” – Acts 2:22
3. “He will judge the world with justice by the Man He has appointed.” – Acts 17:31
4. “the man Christ Jesus,” – 1 Timothy 2:5

God is not a son of man:

1. “God is not a man…or a son of man,” – Numbers 23:19

The Bible calls Jesus “the son of man”:

1. “so the Son of Man will be” – Matthew 12:40
2. “For the Son of Man will come” – Matthew 16:27
3. “the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” – Matthew 16:28

“Son of man” is used to refer to people:

1. “the son of man, who is but a worm!” – Job 25:6
2. “the son of man You have raised up for Yourself.” – Psalm 80:17
3. “O LORD, what is man, that You regard him, the son of man that You think of him?” – Psalm 144:3
4. “Son of man,” He said to me, “stand up on your feet and I will speak to you.” – Ezekiel 2:1

Jesus denied being God:

1. “Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone” – Luke 18:19
2. “Why do you ask Me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good.” – Matthew 19:17

Contrary to the accusations of blasphemy against him, Jesus said he is a man:
1. “you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.” – John 8:40

God is greater than Jesus:

1. “the Father is greater than I.” – John 14:28
2. “My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all.” – John 10:29

Jesus never instructed anyone to worship him:

1. “When you pray, say: ‘Father, hallowed be Your name.” – Luke 11:2
2. “in that day you will ask Me nothing. Most assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you.” – John 16:23
3. “the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.” John 4:23

Jesus worshipped the Only True God:

1. “ that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” John 17:3
2. “He went out to the mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.” – Luke 6:12
3. “the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve,” – Matthew 20:28

Jesus prayed to God:

1. “He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed,” – Matthew 26:39
2. “in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear,” – Hebrews 5:7

The disciples did not believe Jesus is God:

1. “Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know” – Acts 2:22
2. “The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, “ – Acts 3:13
3. “God, having raised up His Servant Jesus” – Acts 3:26

The disciples prayed to God:

1. “they raised their voice to God with one accord and said: “Lord, You are God, who made heaven and earth and the sea, and all that is in them,” – Acts 4:24
2. “ Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed,” – Acts 4:27
3. “Your holy Servant Jesus.” – Acts 4:30

Jesus is God’s servant:

1. ““Behold! My Servant whom I have chosen, My Beloved in whom My soul is well pleased!” – Matthew 12:18

Jesus cannot do anything of himself:

1. “the Son can do nothing of Himself,” – John 5:19
2. “I can of Myself do nothing.” – John 5:30

God Gave Jesus the power to forgive sins:

1. “But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...” – Matthew 9:6
2. “Now when the multitudes saw it, they marveled and glorified God, who had given such power to men.” – Matthew 9:8

excellent.

 

[Red Baker]

Why not just simply say, "union" or the Hypostatic Union?

I did without using the word.

I fully agree that the Sonship of Jesus Christ is the combination of God the Word and a human nature in a single Being

Ontology the selfsame Son-person himself is not distinct, composed of parts, or complex.

⦁ The two nature are distinct in the union by the Son-person.
⦁ The Son-person exist as God according to the Divine Nature.
⦁ The Son-person exist as Man according to the Human Nature.
⦁ The Son-person is existing in two distinct ways simultaneously.

Jesus Christ being "human" would be identified by his nature. For example, Jesus Christ being Fully Human is derived from the human nature being composed of the whole body and soul/spirit, with all of the human attributes and properties. That is what qualify him as human. And "God" and "Man" are not properties and attributes of the Natures or of the Person. Rather it's what the natures have constituted what the Son-person to be, like: the Divine Nature constitutes the Son-person to be God and the Human Nature constitutes the selfsame Son-person to be Man.

I agree~

You are redefining a well-established doctrine with a Webster 1828 dictionary. If you didn't know, Dyophysitism is Greek that means "two natures," but you are not referring to the natures but to the person.

Sir, I'm referring to two complete and distinct natures in one person, or one person with two complete and distinct natures~I'm not going to argue over semantics which I think you are doing, if I'm wrong, then I apologies, but will give your points more private consideration, to make sure I'm not missing something, that I will do, you can be assured of that. I see nothing unscriptural with saying what I did that the Lord Jesus was a complex person.

Have you taken the time to think thoroughly about this "complex person?"

Sir, I will now, based on what you are saying, which I do not disagree with most of what you are postings. But, I will give it more thought, so I can be as close to the truth as I can. Thanks for your input.

 

[Red Baker]

Now, in Scripture, Jesus is called a man many times

Well, yes, because he was born a male child. That male child born to Mary, was conceived by the power of the Highest, thereby, God was his Father, not Joseph as was supposed by the others living at that time. By God being his Father he shared the the form of God, evident by many acts he did while living in a body of flesh and blood.

Philippians 2: 5-8~"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

Form of God~would consist with his nature, and essence, making him be equal to his Father, as he is in truth; for he now (even in the flesh, he displayed many of these) shares the same perfections as God, as eternity, omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, immutability, and self-existence: he has the same glorious names as his Father~ the mighty God, the true God, the living God, God over all, Jehovah, the Lord of glory the same works of creation and providence are ascribed to him in the word of God, and the same worship, homage, and honour given him by the apostles: to be "in the form of God", and to be "equal with God", signify the same thing, the one is explanative of the other: and this is the divine form and equality, or true and proper deity of the male child born to Mary by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Jesus is called a man many times and men are not God. Do you agree that a human didn't create the universe?

But, the Word which was God that was made flesh in the person of Jesus Christ of Narareth did create all things for himself!

Colossians 1:14-17~"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

You are building your house (doctrines) upon sand!

Jesus is never called a god man in the Bible.

He is called God several times~and worshipped as God. The only God you and I will see in that day.

John 20:28​

“And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.” Many more, which you have heard many times over and still reject this truth.

 

[grace2]

He is called God several times~

​

Did He once call Himself God?

His Father says tons of times.

Why do you push Him where He did not identify Himself as God?

You guys need to read the OT where God's identity clearly describes Who God is.

 

[JIM]

Did He once call Himself God?

His Father says tons of times.

Why do you push Him where He did not identify Himself as God?

You guys need to read the OT where God's identity clearly describes Who God is.

In those instances where others declared Jesus to be God, if Jesus did not object and deny what the others said, then it would seem that He was in agreement with what was said. If not, then He was seriously deceiving those who said it and those who heard it and in doing so He was misrepresenting Himself to others. clearly not the actions of anyone that we would want to honor and worship.

You need to read the NT where God's identity is described in more detail beyond that which appears in the OT. That more informed description of God is additional and not in conflict with the OT.

 

[grace2]

You need to read the NT where God's identity is described in more detail beyond that which appears in the OT. That more informed description of God is additional and not in conflict with the OT.

I have been reading both OT and NT repeatedly and I will not stop reading them.

That's why I am certain that you guys are making up your ideal god.

You guys are willing participants of a made-up pagan god.

that's where your heart is, not God-centered.

That is why I hardly participate in the debate. It is useless.

 

[grace2]

@JIM,

Jesus made clear how to identify who is the Truth holders.

He says we know them by their fruit.

You guys have tons of red herrings identified as false god spreaders.

And you guys dismiss all of them.

 

[Red Baker]

Did He once call Himself God?

Did did so in a way that his enemies knew exactly what he was saying.

John 5:18​

“Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.”

By Jesus confessing the truth that God was his Father, proved he shared the same nature and essence with God~a truth you reject, aaamking you antichrist.

John 10:30-33~"I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."

The Lord, as a man, was meek and lowly in heart, and did not seek to make his glory known, he proved it by his godly life, miracles, and words that he spoke generally to his disciple apart from the crowd's.

Isaiah 42:2​

“He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.”

Matthew 12:19​

“He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.”

No, Jesus, for the most part, did not desire to make himself known.

Matthew 8:2-4~"And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them."

You guys need to read the OT where God's identity clearly describes Who God is.

No problem~

Isaiah 9:6​

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

I would tell you to read the scriptures, but unless God quickens you to life in order for you to see, you cannot, and will continue rejecting his deity as the I AM THAT I AM~who indeed was before Abraham....the God whom Abraham believed in.

 

[JIM]

I have been reading both OT and NT repeatedly and I will not stop reading them.

That's why I am certain that you guys are making up your ideal god.

You guys are willing participants of a made-up pagan god.

that's where your heart is, not God-centered.

That is why I hardly participate in the debate. It is useless.

Are you Jewish?

 

[grace2]

Did did so in a way that his enemies knew exactly what he was saying.

John 5:18​

“Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.”

By Jesus confessing the truth that God was his Father, proved he shared the same nature and essence with God~a truth you reject, aaamking you antichrist.



The Lord, as a man, was meek and lowly in heart, and did not seek to make his glory known, he proved it by his godly life, miracles, and words that he spoke generally to his disciple apart from the crowd's.

Isaiah 42:2​

“He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.”

Matthew 12:19​

“He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.”

No, Jesus, for the most part, did not desire to make himself known.


No problem~

Isaiah 9:6​

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”

I would tell you to read the scriptures, but unless God quickens you to life in order for you to see, you cannot, and will continue rejecting his deity as the I AM THAT I AM~who indeed was before Abraham....the God whom Abraham believed in.

Read post#190

that is for all triune god worshippers.

 

[grace2]

Are you Jewish?

Did you find anything wrong with my message?

 

[JIM]

Did you find anything wrong with my message?

Yes, by implication that the NT information about God is incorrect.

 

[Eleanor]

Clearly more definitive than your assertion that it isn't there.

See post #169.

 

[grace2]

Yes, by implication that the NT information about God is incorrect.

So you continually dismiss Jesus' word.

Jesus says we know them by their fruit.

You guys have been producing anti-Christ fruit.

I will bring up what kind of fruit you guys are producing.

I did in the past many times but it has been dismissed every time.

 

[grace2]

We know them by their fruit:

1. Matthew 3:8
   Produce fruitin keeping with repentance.
   
   
2. Matthew 3:10
   The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruitwill be cut down and thrown into the fire.
   
   
3. Matthew 7:16
   By their fruityou will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
   
   
4. Matthew 7:17
   Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
   
   
5. Matthew 7:18
   A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
   
   
6. Matthew 7:19
   Every tree that does not bear good fruitis cut down and thrown into the fire.
   
   
7. Matthew 7:20
   Thus, by their fruityou will recognize them.
   
   
8. Matthew 12:33
   “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit.
   
   
9. Matthew 21:19
   Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, “May you never bear fruitagain!” Immediately the tree withered.
   
   
10. Matthew 21:34
    When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
    
    
11. Matthew 21:43
    “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.
    
    
12. Matthew 26:29
    I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

 

[Rella]

God is not a man:

1. “God is not a man” – Numbers 23:19
2. “For I am God, and not man,” – Hosea 11:9

Jesus is called a man many times:

1. “a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.” – John 8:40
2. “a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know.” – Acts 2:22
3. “He will judge the world with justice by the Man He has appointed.” – Acts 17:31
4. “the man Christ Jesus,” – 1 Timothy 2:5

God is not a son of man:

1. “God is not a man…or a son of man,” – Numbers 23:19

The Bible calls Jesus “the son of man”:

1. “so the Son of Man will be” – Matthew 12:40
2. “For the Son of Man will come” – Matthew 16:27
3. “the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.” – Matthew 16:28

“Son of man” is used to refer to people:

1. “the son of man, who is but a worm!” – Job 25:6
2. “the son of man You have raised up for Yourself.” – Psalm 80:17
3. “O LORD, what is man, that You regard him, the son of man that You think of him?” – Psalm 144:3
4. “Son of man,” He said to me, “stand up on your feet and I will speak to you.” – Ezekiel 2:1



Contrary to the accusations of blasphemy against him, Jesus said he is a man:
1. “you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God.” – John 8:40

God is greater than Jesus:

1. “the Father is greater than I.” – John 14:28
2. “My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all.” – John 10:29

Jesus never instructed anyone to worship him:

1. “When you pray, say: ‘Father, hallowed be Your name.” – Luke 11:2
2. “in that day you will ask Me nothing. Most assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My name He will give you.” – John 16:23
3. “the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.” John 4:23

Jesus worshipped the Only True God:

1. “ that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” John 17:3
2. “He went out to the mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.” – Luke 6:12
3. “the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve,” – Matthew 20:28

Jesus prayed to God:

1. “He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed,” – Matthew 26:39
2. “in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear,” – Hebrews 5:7

The disciples did not believe Jesus is God:

1. “Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know” – Acts 2:22
2. “The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, “ – Acts 3:13
3. “God, having raised up His Servant Jesus” – Acts 3:26

The disciples prayed to God:

1. “they raised their voice to God with one accord and said: “Lord, You are God, who made heaven and earth and the sea, and all that is in them,” – Acts 4:24
2. “ Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed,” – Acts 4:27
3. “Your holy Servant Jesus.” – Acts 4:30

Jesus is God’s servant:

1. ““Behold! My Servant whom I have chosen, My Beloved in whom My soul is well pleased!” – Matthew 12:18

Jesus cannot do anything of himself:

1. “the Son can do nothing of Himself,” – John 5:19
2. “I can of Myself do nothing.” – John 5:30

God Gave Jesus the power to forgive sins:

1. “But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...” – Matthew 9:6
2. “Now when the multitudes saw it, they marveled and glorified God, who had given such power to men.” – Matthew 9:8

Quite the Blatherskite View attachment 857

How many times can Jesus tell a lie?
MY
John 10:30, Jesus said, “I and the Father are one.”

trumps your which is NOT a denial.

Jesus denied being God:

1. “Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone” – Luke 18:19
2. “Why do you ask Me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good.” – Matthew 19:17


The disciples of Jesus distinctly heard Him declare His deity. After Jesus’ resurrection, Thomas the doubting disciple finally understood Jesus’ deity, declaring Him to be “my Lord and my God” (John 20:28). If Jesus were not Lord and God, He would have corrected Thomas, but He did not; Thomas spoke the truth.

We can ignor, if you wish John 10:33 as heresy ... When He asked them why they were attempting to stone Him, they said, “For blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God”.... as no one claimed enlightement among the Jew, an they did not carry forward the word of truth

But will you charge the Father with lying or heresy when referring to Jesus as God: “About the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever’” (Hebrews 1:8, quoting Psalm 45:6).

 

[Eleanor]

Clearly more definitive than your assertion that it isn't there.

The word in the text is "aim" (philotieoai), as in Ro 15:20 (strive), 2 Co 5:9 (ambitious to be), none of which are "application of the mind to writings," but rather are "earnest and reasoned effort, desire."