What will the natural man do with the gospel?

[Carbon]

Since natural man rejects the things of the Spirit of God, thinks them foolish, and cannot know them without them being spiritually discerned by a spiritual person.

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14.

what will the natural man do every time with the gospel?

 

[fastfredy0]

what will the natural man do every time with the gospel?

Nothing that would be eternally beneficial.

He might make a lot of $$$$ like Joel Osteen though ... *giggle*

Matthew 7:18 "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit."
We're born spiritually dead; unable to independently respond to the gospel in a salvific way.

 

[Arial]

Since natural man rejects the things of the Spirit of God, thinks them foolish, and cannot know them without them being spiritually discerned by a spiritual person.

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14.

what will the natural man do every time with the gospel?

He will not believe it or pervert it.

 

[David1701]

Since natural man rejects the things of the Spirit of God, thinks them foolish, and cannot know them without them being spiritually discerned by a spiritual person.

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14.

what will the natural man do every time with the gospel?

He will reject it; although, he might appear to accept it: by giving mental assent to some facts, or by filling in a decision card, or by some emotional response, or by repeating a "sinner's prayer" after the counsellor.

 

[Ghada]

what will the natural man do every time with the gospel?

Either agree or disagree there was a good man Jesus crucified innocently on a cross by envious Jews and Roman soldiers.

They won't believe the Son of God was.

Neither will they repent of their sins for His sake. They may repent of unhealthy, unlawful, and destructive deeds, but not of their sins.

1 Cor{9:24} Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. {9:25} And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they [do it] to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Carbon,

what will the natural man do every time with the gospel?

It would be interesting to find out from each participant who they think are a Natural Man and who is a Spiritual Man. The question that arises is how did these individuals attain the status or quality of being or becoming a Spiritual Man. Was this by a direct infusion of the Holy Spirit? Was it by a slow process of absorbing the Word of God and meditating thereon? Can a Natural Man be gradually transformed into a Spiritual Man?

I find it interesting that you quote from Luther, as I have read that he disagreed with Muntzer on the subject of the Holy Spirit.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Red Baker]

Greetings Carbon,

It would be interesting to find out from each participant who they think are a Natural Man

The natural man is an unregenerate man, having only one nature that he received from Adam. The things of the Spirit of God are foolishness unto him, for he thinks none are greater than the wisdom he possess. Let this proverbs tell us.

Proverbs 28:5​

Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.​

What a difference between men! Some cannot figure out simple issues. Others fully grasp everything? Which are you? Unable to understand anything? Or understanding all things?

Natural man is evil and blind. He does not know right or wrong. He is so corrupt by sin and Satan, he cannot see or think straight. He perverts everything he thinks about. By your first birth, you are a natural man, walking in darkness like everyone else (Ep 2:1-3).

Instead of his Creator, man has worshipped stumps, snakes, and bugs (Is 44:9-20; Rom 1:23). Since such things are too lofty for this generation and sound too much like gods to its teachers, man worships himself instead, which is the ultimate folly (Ps 14:1-3).

Evil men are puppets. The god of this world jerks them at his will, and they go through life without right judgment – knowing what is just and true (II Cor 4:4; Ep 2:2; 4:17-19). The devil blinds them to ignorance of this world and the next. They know nothing at all.

If a person contradicts the Bible, he has no light (Is 8:20; I Tim 6:3-5). Now that is God’s opinion, but wise men heartily endorse it (Ps 119:128). Evil men are always learning – especially in this information age – but they never find truth for real issues (II Tim 3:7).

Evil men are evil, because they do not fear God. All men that do not fear God are evil. Without a Creator or moral absolutes, they cannot know right or wrong. Evil men are also evil, because they do not make choices by wisdom. They foolishly make choices by lusts, feelings, pragmatism, popular opinion, tradition, or other deceitful criteria.

Most men think Adolph Hitler, Charles Manson, Rasputin, and only extreme criminals fulfill the first clause of the proverb about lacking judgment. But those are only three in a wicked world of natural men. On what moral basis was John Lennon, Sigmund Freud, or Mahatma Gandi different? The vast majority of all men do not understand true judgment.

The evil men in the proverb have no fear of God (Ps 36:1-2; Rom 3:18). They are fools (Ps 14:1; 53:1). They have not even engaged the beginning of knowledge and wisdom. They make decisions according to their ignorance, lusts, and pride. They love themselves more than anyone else, and life is just a contest to see who can get the most. They were willing pawns of the devil for child sacrifice in the old days and are so for abortion today.

Judgment is the ability to know what is just and right. By rejecting God and His will in the Bible, evil men are left to the mercy of the devil and profane imaginations (Ec 7:29). Animals did not invent bestiality. It was another bright idea from God-rejecting man. And they show greater perversity today by legally only considering it cruelty to animals!

Understanding means to comprehend and grasp the nature or importance of some thing. Evil men cannot comprehend what is just and right – they cannot understand judgment. They cannot truly see what is right or wrong in moral and other matters, because their hearts are blinded. Their hatred of God and His commandments distorts their judgment.

The question that arises is how did these individuals attain the status or quality of being or becoming a Spiritual Man.

By the sovereign will of God purposely showing mercy to some aparts from all works on their part.,

The spiritual man is one that the Spirit of God has regenerated. They have been created after the image of the Son of God. They have a new man within them.

Those who seek the LORD fear Him, keep His commandments, read His Word, and pray for wisdom. God’s Spirit inside them assists their new man by regeneration to know all things (Job 32:8; I Jn 2:20). They understand all things, both of this world and of the world to come. Those who seek the Lord even have the mind of the Lord (I Cor 2:15-16)~freely given unto them by grace which Jesús Christ secured for them~by his faith and obedience.

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom and understanding (Pr 1:7; 9:10; Ps 111:10). Knowing God is the foundation for all right thinking. Without the worldview of a holy Creator, the depraved human heart has no boundaries to restrain its selfish imaginations, twisted hallucinations suggested by the devil, the world’s wicked inventions hurled at them every day, or some combination of these three sources of evil together.

Can a Natural Man be gradually transformed into a Spiritual Man?

Impossible, he sooner could create a world than turn himself into a spiritual man.

It is an instant work of the Spirit of God alone!

 

[Red Baker]

Since natural man rejects the things of the Spirit of God, thinks them foolish, and cannot know them without them being spiritually discerned by a spiritual person.

The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor 2:14.

what will the natural man do every time with the gospel?

Not receive the truth of it. A spiritual man receives the truth of the gospel because the power to receive it was freely given to them to do so.

John 1:12,13~'But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

What's so hard about John 1:12,13? Nothing if you are born again.

 

[makesends]

Proverbs 28:5​

Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.​

What a difference between men! Some cannot figure out simple issues. Others fully grasp everything? Which are you? Unable to understand anything? Or understanding all things?

What do you mean by "understand all things" in this context? I hope you don't think that you, or anyone else, 'has it all down' and has nothing more to learn. Does it really mean, "fully grasp all things"?

There are several such extreme statements in Scripture. Consider, "Whatsoever is not of faith is sin". And "The soul that sins, it shall die". And "If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

As a monergist, I believe the nature of faith to be of God's origination, not of man's. That is true both for Salvation, as Regeneration is necessary for there to be salvific faith, and for the rest of these statements. It is GOD who works in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Subsequent to "becoming saved", our continued life is IN HIM. HE is the source of our faith by which we stand and by which we live. Every good and perfect gift is from HIM. Only what is of this faith is good.

This is not merely a matter of us considering, accepting, inculcating some truth, then acting upon it. It is a matter of GOD being the very fact of these things. "We do so because it is so", is how I put it. We are of that nature, because he is in us, a spring of living water.

SO, we do not understand everything, but he that is in us does, and so we live in what he does in us.

 

[Red Baker]

What do you mean by "understand all things" in this context? I hope you don't think that you, or anyone else, 'has it all down' and has nothing more to learn. Does it really mean, "fully grasp all things"?

There are several such extreme statements in Scripture. Consider, "Whatsoever is not of faith is sin". And "The soul that sins, it shall die". And "If you love me, you will keep my commandments."

As a monergist, I believe the nature of faith to be of God's origination, not of man's. That is true both for Salvation, as Regeneration is necessary for there to be salvific faith, and for the rest of these statements. It is GOD who works in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Subsequent to "becoming saved", our continued life is IN HIM. HE is the source of our faith by which we stand and by which we live. Every good and perfect gift is from HIM. Only what is of this faith is good.

This is not merely a matter of us considering, accepting, inculcating some truth, then acting upon it. It is a matter of GOD being the very fact of these things. "We do so because it is so", is how I put it. We are of that nature, because he is in us, a spring of living water.

SO, we do not understand everything, but he that is in us does, and so we live in what he does in us.

I mean the same thing John meant when he wrote these words:

1 John 2:20​

“But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.”

All things that are needed for us to know~of course our understanding is imperfect, yet all things that we need to know, we know.

 

[grace2]

It is an instant work of the Spirit of God alone!

We will be judged according to what we have done in the last day if we have been devoted to God and Jesus until the end.

 

[Red Baker]

We will be judged according to what we have done in the last day if we have been devoted to God and Jesus until the end.

Grace~Our sins were legally judged in Jesus Christ, we are without spot before our God as he viewed us in Christ~and this will never change.....the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

We must give account of our stewardship, with the talents God has given to us, how we have used them for his glory. That I will agree with.

2nd Corinthians 5: 10,11~"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences."

Matthew 25:14-30~"For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money. After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them. And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

The unprofitable servant were the tares among the wheat~the bad fishes among the good ones.

 

[grace2]

Grace~Our sins were legally judged in Jesus Christ, we are without spot before our God as he viewed us in Christ~and this will never change.....the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

We must give account of our stewardship, with the talents God has given to us, how we have used them for his glory. That I will agree with.



The unprofitable servant were the tares among the wheat~the bad fishes among the good ones.

Your reading does not harmonize with Jesus' word of being faithful until the end.

 

[Red Baker]

Your reading does not harmonize with Jesus' word of being faithful until the end.

Greetings Grace, please elaborate as to what you mean~please provide scriptures so I can read what you are attempting to say, Thanks


"When I look at myself, I don't see how I can be saved. But when I look at Christ, I don't see how I can be lost."
Luther.....Amen!

 

[grace2]

Greetings Grace, please elaborate as to what you mean~please provide scriptures so I can read what you are attempting to say, Thanks


"When I look at myself, I don't see how I can be saved. But when I look at Christ, I don't see how I can be lost."
Luther.....Amen!

You are quoting Luther in defense of your doctrine?

whatever happened to "Jesus is the Lord"?

Jesus also says that He is the Teacher.

This rhetoric is sufficient enough to answer your question.

 

[Red Baker]

You are quoting Luther in defense of your doctrine?

whatever happened to "Jesus is the Lord"?

Jesus also says that He is the Teacher.

This rhetoric is sufficient enough to answer your question.

Grace,

I was not quoting Luther to defend my understanding, I actually took it from Carbon's quote showing I agreed with him~ nothing more.

Still waiting for you to show me that Jesus is indeed your teacher, which he may be, I'm not disputing this at the moment.

 

[grace2]

Grace,

I was not quoting Luther to defend my understanding, I actually took it from Carbon's quote showing I agreed with him~ nothing more.

Still waiting for you to show me that Jesus is indeed your teacher, which he may be, I'm not disputing this at the moment.

Because Jesus is my Lord.

You think you dont have to respect Jesus' word to be in God's kingdom??????????????

 

[Red Baker]

Because Jesus is my Lord.

You think you dont have to respect Jesus' word to be in God's kingdom??????????????

Grace, what have I said to even make you think that we should not love/respect God's word?

How do we get into God's kingdom, care to answer this question? Did we chose this kingdom, or did God in mercy prepared the kingdom of God freely for us from the foundation of the world?

 

[grace2]

Grace, what have I said to even make you think that we should not love/respect God's word?

You deny Jesus' word of His Father is the only true God.

God cannot be mocked.

 

[Red Baker]

You deny Jesus' word of His Father is the only true God.

God cannot be mocked.

Grace, I have no clue what you are referencing~give me the quote wherein you think this.