What Type of Calvinist am I -discussion thread

[Carbon]

New birth process?? Where does the Bible say that the new birth is a process?

Exactly.

 

[Carbon]

Sorry, I thought this was Buff's Post too...

Forums can be confusing; it read as if he posted this in response to you here on this Thread; not the other Thread...

No problem.

But what did you think was referring to me being hyper? I am still curious.

 

[ReverendRV]

New birth process?? Where does the Bible say that the new birth is a process?

The Bible says we are Saved by the Washing of Regeneration and the Renewal of the Spirit; and that we must be Born of Water and the Spirit. The word 'Process' is not there, but in both Verses the duality is there...

 

[Carbon]

The Bible says we are Saved by the Washing of Regeneration and the Renewal of the Spirit; and that we must be Born of Water and the Spirit. The word Process is not there, but in both Verses the duality is there...

This is all one thing. Washing of regeneration is the renewing of the spirit, which also is born of water and the spirit. This is all one thing.

 

[ReverendRV]

No problem.

But what did you think was referring to me being hyper? I am still curious.

Not you, I thought he called himself Hyper. This is all very confusing. I can't be the only reader that is confused...

 

[sawdust]

Faith and belief are synonyms! It's the same Greek word for both. Believing in Jesus Christ is not merely accepting facts about him (which would be mental assent), but trusting in him completely (i.e. faith).

I recommend that you do some study, before posting any more nonsense...

They are only synonyms when the content of belief is truth. If everything you believe is truth, then you have no need to be corrected in anything.

Have a nice life.

 

[ReverendRV]

This is all one thing. Washing of regeneration is the renewing of the spirit, which also is born of water and the spirit. This is all one thing.

I agree %100...

But the process is described by two compound things for a reason. The Hypostatic Union and the New Birth are both examples of a compound Hypostasis...

 

[ReverendRV]

No problem.

But what did you think was referring to me being hyper? I am still curious.

Nothing. I thought Buff said he was Hyper. See, the confusion persists...

 

[Carbon]

Nothing. I thought Buff said he was Hyper. See, the confusion persists...

Okay, got ya.

 

[ReverendRV]

Basically what I quoted Eph.2:8. If we are made spiritually alive prior to faith then we would be saved by grace through regeneration.

Now I'm even more confused

 

[ReverendRV]

Maybe I'm just tired but your response to me and your response to @David1701 seems to be saying the opposite. Could you clarify please what you think regeneration is?

So far, all of this has been quite confusing...

I knew I wasn't the only one

 

[Carbon]

Now I'm even more confused

No you're. not, you only think you are. Look at this post again.

sawdust said:
Basically what I quoted Eph.2:8. If we are made spiritually alive prior to faith then we would be saved by grace through regeneration.

So, he says we are spiritually alive before faith, but not yet regenerated.

That's like saying things like this"
I am saved and at the same time, I am not saved.
I am born again, but at the same time, I am not born again.


Now who is confused?

 

[ReverendRV]

I pretty much agree. I believe they all happen at the same time.

There may be some pre-loading up front, that is a person may hear the gospel....even believe there is a God....but like Lydia God must open your heart, grant you the ability to come to Christ Jesus and then during that God regenerates a person as He gives the faith to those who were dead in their sins and trespasses..

Well said...

 

[Carbon]

I pretty much agree. I believe they all happen at the same time.

There may be some pre-loading up front, that is a person may hear the gospel....even believe there is a God....but like Lydia God must open your heart, grant you the ability to come to Christ Jesus and then during that God regenerates a person as He gives the faith to those who were dead in their sins and trespasses..

One problem I see is that God opens the heart, this is another way of saying regeneration. But you are saying it as two different things.


A woman named Lydia was listening; she was a seller of purple fabrics from the city of Thyatira, and a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul. Acts 16:4.

 

[sawdust]

No you're. not, you only think you are. Look at this post again.


So, he says we are spiritually alive before faith, but not yet regenerated.

That's like saying things like this"
I am saved and at the same time, I am not saved.
I am born again, but at the same time, I am not born again.


Now who is confused?

That's not what I am saying. No wonder we are all confused.

Let me lay out my rationale, that might make it clearer.

The Gospel is the power of salvation. (Rom.1:16)
Faith comes form hearing the word (Rom.10:17)
The Gospel (Christ's death and resurrection) is the word of God. (1Cor.15:3&4)
We are saved by grace through faith. (Eph.2:8)
To enter and understand the kingdom of God we must be made spiritually alive (born anew John 3:3-5)
We need to be saved from the spiritual death we all incurred due to Adam's sin. (Rom.5:12)

Now here is how I see this working out.

Grace comes to a person (one who has already been learning from the Father Jn.6:45) enabling them to be placed into a position whereby they can hear the Gospel. (grace is the power of God to enable His will in the world and especially in the believer 2Cor.12:9). To those who believe, agree the Gospel is the truth (because God has promised to save those who are believing in Him (Jn.3:16), that word comes into the believer and produces faith (it is the faith of Christ, He is the Word). Now as the Gospel has the power to save it causes us to be born again as that is our salvation (the entry into salvation). The problem of spiritual death was dealt with on the Cross. The moment you are born again you are saved from spiritual death. (the wages of sin is (spiritual) death Rom.6:23) Therefore the order is grace - faith - regeneration (salvation).

My point earlier was if the order is as you say, grace - regeneration - faith then the scripture should read "you are saved by grace through regeneration" but it doesn't. You are saved at the point of regeneration therefore it is salvation (regeneration) by grace through faith.

Hopefully that makes things clearer.

 

[ReverendRV]

Hopefully that makes things clearer.

It doesn't

Are you saying that Faith, which is not of yourself; is Prevenient?

 

[sawdust]

One problem I see is that God opens the heart, this is another way of saying regeneration. But you are saying it as two different things.


A woman named Lydia was listening; she was a seller of purple fabrics from the city of Thyatira, and a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul. Acts 16:4.

This may be why you are confused by what I said earlier. I see the "opening of her heart" as grace enabling a person to respond "as if" they are spiritually alive not that they are in fact spiritually alive.

 

[ReverendRV]

This may be why you are confused by what I said earlier. I see the "opening of her heart" as grace enabling a person to respond "as if" they are spiritually alive not that they are in fact spiritually alive.

As an Elect Jewish Worshipper of God who was already Justified under the Old Covenant, why would God need to open her heart to hear Saint Paul; as she would already have been Regenerated?

 

[sawdust]

It doesn't

Are you saying that Faith, which is not of yourself; is Prevenient?

I'm saying faith is the word at work in your soul (thinking) which occurs by grace. Put another way, you can't claim to have faith if what you believe is not truth. Keeping in mind that faith is not static but is a "growing organism". The more truth you have in your soul, the more faith you have.

Psalm 119:11
I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you.

 

[ReverendRV]

I'm saying faith is the word at work in your soul (thinking) which occurs by grace. Put another way, you can't claim to have faith if what you believe is not truth. Keeping in mind that faith is not static but is a "growing organism". The more truth you have in your soul, the more faith you have.

Psalm 119:11
I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you.

So; what's your issue with Calvinism, if you believe Faith occurs by Grace?