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What is grace?

...

Just relax, and find someone who can help you figure us out. Calvinism is not as bad as you think it is...

...
What??? "...not as bad..." Do you realise that this implies that you think that Calvinism is bad, just not as bad as the other poster thinks?

Sometimes I wonder what you really believe...
 
What??? "...not as bad..." Do you realise that this implies that you think that Calvinism is bad, just not as bad as the other poster thinks?

Sometimes I wonder what you really believe...
I know you wonder...
 
Doxology ~ by ReverendRV * March 20

Jude 1:24-25 KJV;
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

A Doxology is a Liturgical expression of praise to God. This is exactly what our Verses are; an outpouring of Praise from Saint Jude. At the end of the Epistle of Jude, his Soul was magnified when God used him to communicate to us; and he praised the Lord! Paul would also interrupt his teaching in an Epistle and break out in Praise to God, then continue on with his teaching; like in 1st Timothy 1:17. ~ The Church has a Doctrine called ‘Sola Deo Gloria’, which means “Glory to God Alone”. This Doctrine is embraced by every Evangelical; how could it not be? It means ‘To the only God and Savior be the Authority, Majesty, Power and Glory!’ ~ Saint John said our Heavenly reward will be a Crown and we will lay it at Gods feet…

Laying our crown at the Feet of God may just be the most unimaginable thing we can think of; after all it is our reward! ~ Have you ever Stolen anything that belonged to someone else? What do you call people who Steal? You object, “Wait a minute! Keeping my reward makes me a Thief?” No; keeping the Glory of your reward makes you a Thief; remember, to the only God be the Glory. Have you had another god other than the God of the Bible? If you think that you are glorious, you have; right? This makes you an Idolater at Heart; being Glorious suits yourself. ~ These are just three of the Ten Commandments, do we need more? We do?? Have you ever told a Lie? What would you call a person that Lied to you? Just how Glorious are you now that you’re a Liar? If God judged you by all Ten Commandments, would you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to Heaven or to Hell? Does this bother you?? If it doesn’t, it should…

But God, who is rich in Mercy even when we are dead in Trespasses and Sins, makes us alive in Jesus Christ; it is by Grace we are Saved! For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life. Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the Sin of the world; Jesus Christ! If you make his Soul an offering for Sin, God shall see the Labor of his Soul and be Satisfied. God made him who had no Sin to be Sin for us so that in him we can become the Righteousness of God. According to the Bible, Christ died for our Sins, was buried but was raised on the Third Day! We’re Saved by God’s Grace thru Faith in the risen Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, without our power, majesty, authority or glory. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God, and find a Church that always preaches the Bible. ~ We are not Saved by good Works but we are Born Again for Good Works, these go to our Heavenly Reward. But Jesus is our great Reward and deserves all Glory. We no longer look at laying our Crowns at his feet as unimaginable, but as giving God all the Glory…

Genesis 15:1 KJV; After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
 
Does a branch choose to abide or is it naturally an outgrowth of the tree/vine?
Jesus gives the choice “abide in me” and I will abide in you, the opposite is also true reject or deny Him and He will reject or deny us!
 
In a way, God the Holy Spirit is not excluded from the 5-Solas; because HE is the Voice of Sola Scriptura. If you would like to add the Holy Spirit to the Solas, in what way would you do it? In that he exists?

Calvinists are not unaware of the irony that there are five Onlies. They are not Alone, except in the Concept that if Salvation could theoretically be rounded down to one thing; they each are THAT important to our Salvation, as if they were the Lone Factor. For instance, Christ Alone; he is our Salvation. I put it this way; we're Saved by Grace Alone through Faith Alone in the Christ of Scripture Alone, Glory to God Alone. As a Catholic you should understand that the Solas are a Creed meant to isolate Grace from Works, Scripture from Dogma, Glory of Man from Glory to God; etc. In a sense, the Sola aspect is not that there are five Onlies; but that each Sola is Alone when it comes to their Contrasts also. For instance, Christ Alone compared to the Holy Spirit; HE Alone died on the Cross for us, HE is the JUST and the Justifier Alone. Christ Alone compared to Allah. Etc...

You see, they are Onlies in this respect too. Should there be more or less Solas? Maybe. But these were handed down to us. A Hyper Calvinist behaves as if Unconditional Election were a Sola; in that if you rounded Salvation down to one thing, our Election is it. Professor Flowers behaves as if Faith is the Only Sola. There are many Fundamentals of the Faith, too many to list; but perhaps the best way to look at the 5-Solas is to consider them a List of Prime Fundamentals. Surely you agree Christ is the only Savior; I don't think you are AS against the 5-Solas as you want to appear to be. For instance, the Catholic Church and the Pope are not Inspired the same way the Bible is Inspired; Scripture Alone is, right?

Again, your questions are off topic compared to the Post you responded to. Why change the Subject 😉? But the change let's me speak to the Lurkers...
One thing at a time please

The truth and the church are from God, they are of divine origin and cannot be reformed.

The apostles and the church have the same authority as Christ and are God breathed. Jn 20:21-23
Thanks
 
In a way, God the Holy Spirit is not excluded from the 5-Solas; because HE is the Voice of Sola Scriptura. If you would like to add the Holy Spirit to the Solas, in what way would you do it? In that he exists?

Calvinists are not unaware of the irony that there are five Onlies. They are not Alone, except in the Concept that if Salvation could theoretically be rounded down to one thing; they each are THAT important to our Salvation, as if they were the Lone Factor. For instance, Christ Alone; he is our Salvation. I put it this way; we're Saved by Grace Alone through Faith Alone in the Christ of Scripture Alone, Glory to God Alone. As a Catholic you should understand that the Solas are a Creed meant to isolate Grace from Works, Scripture from Dogma, Glory of Man from Glory to God; etc. In a sense, the Sola aspect is not that there are five Onlies; but that each Sola is Alone when it comes to their Contrasts also. For instance, Christ Alone compared to the Holy Spirit; HE Alone died on the Cross for us, HE is the JUST and the Justifier Alone. Christ Alone compared to Allah. Etc...

You see, they are Onlies in this respect too. Should there be more or less Solas? Maybe. But these were handed down to us. A Hyper Calvinist behaves as if Unconditional Election were a Sola; in that if you rounded Salvation down to one thing, our Election is it. Professor Flowers behaves as if Faith is the Only Sola. There are many Fundamentals of the Faith, too many to list; but perhaps the best way to look at the 5-Solas is to consider them a List of Prime Fundamentals. Surely you agree Christ is the only Savior; I don't think you are AS against the 5-Solas as you want to appear to be. For instance, the Catholic Church and the Pope are not Inspired the same way the Bible is Inspired; Scripture Alone is, right?

Again, your questions are off topic compared to the Post you responded to. Why change the Subject 😉? But the change let's me speak to the Lurkers...
Christ shares everything with us His members even His glory!

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Thanks
 
Reply
Jesus gives the choice “abide in me” and I will abide in you, the opposite is also true reject or deny Him and He will reject or deny us!
You seem to be trolling for a hit.
Anyways, this suits me fine from the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith under Sanctification (paragraph 1) (which appears what you are questioning...

They who are united to Christ, effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, are also farther sanctified, really and personally,1 through the same virtue, by his Word and Spirit dwelling in them;2 the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed,3 and the several lusts of it are more and more weakened and mortified,4 and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces,5 to the practice of all true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.6



1 Acts 20:32; Rom. 6:5–6
2 John 17:17; Eph. 3:16–19; 1 Thess. 5:21–23
3 Rom. 6:14
4 Gal. 5:24
5 Col. 1:11
6 2 Cor. 7:1; Heb. 12:14

Better from the Belgic...

Article 24: The Sanctification of Sinners​


We believe that this true faith,


produced in us by the hearing of God’s Word
and by the work of the Holy Spirit,


regenerates us and makes us new creatures,58


causing us to live a new life59
and freeing us from the slavery of sin.


Therefore,
far from making people cold
toward living in a pious and holy way,
this justifying faith,
quite to the contrary,
so works within them that


apart from it


they will never do a thing out of love for God
but only out of love for themselves
and fear of being condemned.


So then, it is impossible
for this holy faith to be unfruitful in a human being,
seeing that we do not speak of an empty faith
but of what Scripture calls
“faith working through love,”60


which moves people to do by themselves
the works that God has commanded


in the Word.
 
Last edited:
In a way, God the Holy Spirit is not excluded from the 5-Solas; because HE is the Voice of Sola Scriptura. If you would like to add the Holy Spirit to the Solas, in what way would you do it? In that he exists?

Calvinists are not unaware of the irony that there are five Onlies. They are not Alone, except in the Concept that if Salvation could theoretically be rounded down to one thing; they each are THAT important to our Salvation, as if they were the Lone Factor. For instance, Christ Alone; he is our Salvation. I put it this way; we're Saved by Grace Alone through Faith Alone in the Christ of Scripture Alone, Glory to God Alone. As a Catholic you should understand that the Solas are a Creed meant to isolate Grace from Works, Scripture from Dogma, Glory of Man from Glory to God; etc. In a sense, the Sola aspect is not that there are five Onlies; but that each Sola is Alone when it comes to their Contrasts also. For instance, Christ Alone compared to the Holy Spirit; HE Alone died on the Cross for us, HE is the JUST and the Justifier Alone. Christ Alone compared to Allah. Etc...

You see, they are Onlies in this respect too. Should there be more or less Solas? Maybe. But these were handed down to us. A Hyper Calvinist behaves as if Unconditional Election were a Sola; in that if you rounded Salvation down to one thing, our Election is it. Professor Flowers behaves as if Faith is the Only Sola. There are many Fundamentals of the Faith, too many to list; but perhaps the best way to look at the 5-Solas is to consider them a List of Prime Fundamentals. Surely you agree Christ is the only Savior; I don't think you are AS against the 5-Solas as you want to appear to be. For instance, the Catholic Church and the Pope are not Inspired the same way the Bible is Inspired; Scripture Alone is, right?

Again, your questions are off topic compared to the Post you responded to. Why change the Subject 😉? But the change let's me speak to the Lurkers...
What is a dogma?
 
In a way, God the Holy Spirit is not excluded from the 5-Solas; because HE is the Voice of Sola Scriptura. If you would like to add the Holy Spirit to the Solas, in what way would you do it? In that he exists?

Calvinists are not unaware of the irony that there are five Onlies. They are not Alone, except in the Concept that if Salvation could theoretically be rounded down to one thing; they each are THAT important to our Salvation, as if they were the Lone Factor. For instance, Christ Alone; he is our Salvation. I put it this way; we're Saved by Grace Alone through Faith Alone in the Christ of Scripture Alone, Glory to God Alone. As a Catholic you should understand that the Solas are a Creed meant to isolate Grace from Works, Scripture from Dogma, Glory of Man from Glory to God; etc. In a sense, the Sola aspect is not that there are five Onlies; but that each Sola is Alone when it comes to their Contrasts also. For instance, Christ Alone compared to the Holy Spirit; HE Alone died on the Cross for us, HE is the JUST and the Justifier Alone. Christ Alone compared to Allah. Etc...

You see, they are Onlies in this respect too. Should there be more or less Solas? Maybe. But these were handed down to us. A Hyper Calvinist behaves as if Unconditional Election were a Sola; in that if you rounded Salvation down to one thing, our Election is it. Professor Flowers behaves as if Faith is the Only Sola. There are many Fundamentals of the Faith, too many to list; but perhaps the best way to look at the 5-Solas is to consider them a List of Prime Fundamentals. Surely you agree Christ is the only Savior; I don't think you are AS against the 5-Solas as you want to appear to be. For instance, the Catholic Church and the Pope are not Inspired the same way the Bible is Inspired; Scripture Alone is, right?

Again, your questions are off topic compared to the Post you responded to. Why change the Subject 😉? But the change let's me speak to the Lurkers...
How can it be grace alone if faith is involved and visa verses?
 
In a way, God the Holy Spirit is not excluded from the 5-Solas; because HE is the Voice of Sola Scriptura. If you would like to add the Holy Spirit to the Solas, in what way would you do it? In that he exists?

Calvinists are not unaware of the irony that there are five Onlies. They are not Alone, except in the Concept that if Salvation could theoretically be rounded down to one thing; they each are THAT important to our Salvation, as if they were the Lone Factor. For instance, Christ Alone; he is our Salvation. I put it this way; we're Saved by Grace Alone through Faith Alone in the Christ of Scripture Alone, Glory to God Alone. As a Catholic you should understand that the Solas are a Creed meant to isolate Grace from Works, Scripture from Dogma, Glory of Man from Glory to God; etc. In a sense, the Sola aspect is not that there are five Onlies; but that each Sola is Alone when it comes to their Contrasts also. For instance, Christ Alone compared to the Holy Spirit; HE Alone died on the Cross for us, HE is the JUST and the Justifier Alone. Christ Alone compared to Allah. Etc...

You see, they are Onlies in this respect too. Should there be more or less Solas? Maybe. But these were handed down to us. A Hyper Calvinist behaves as if Unconditional Election were a Sola; in that if you rounded Salvation down to one thing, our Election is it. Professor Flowers behaves as if Faith is the Only Sola. There are many Fundamentals of the Faith, too many to list; but perhaps the best way to look at the 5-Solas is to consider them a List of Prime Fundamentals. Surely you agree Christ is the only Savior; I don't think you are AS against the 5-Solas as you want to appear to be. For instance, the Catholic Church and the Pope are not Inspired the same way the Bible is Inspired; Scripture Alone is, right?

Again, your questions are off topic compared to the Post you responded to. Why change the Subject 😉? But the change let's me speak to the Lurkers...
Scripture Verses that contradict the “Bible is our ONLY AUTHORITY”!

Matt 5:14
Matt 13:11
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 4:11
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
1 Jn 4:6
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15

And if “the Bible is the only authority” then there can be no authentic interpretation!

Thanks
 
Because He always works in conjunction with His Word.
And then though it was the church founded by Christ to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation!
 
Is it possible that eph 2:8 refers to redemption and not justification?
I do not think so.

I say that because redemption and justification are both smaller, incremental constituent elements of salvation, not the whole of salvation. Neither is identical to, synonymous with, nor interchangeable with the word "salvation." Paul wrote "saved," not "redeemed," and not "justified." He expounded on those smaller, incremental aspects of salvation elsewhere. A person is redeemed by Jesus and Jesus is the first cause of justification (not faith). Both exist, of course, by grace. Furthermore, neither word is mentioned in Ephesians 2. The entire chapter is void of either term. The term "redemption" is mentioned a few times at the opening of the epistle, but justification is absent from the entire epistle. It also helps to note the word-tenses in chapters 1 and 2 to follow the flow of Paul's commentary.

Having mentioned redemption, Paul moves forward and discusses salvation in chapter 2.
 
The jurisdictional law authority
Taken from Israel and given to the apostolic church
Jurisdiction:The power, right, or authority to interpret apply law. The power or right to exercise authority: control.

Law: a rule of conduct or action prescribed as binding or enforced by a controlling authority.

Authority: the power to enforce laws, exact obedience, command, determine, or judge.

In the OT Israel was not the jurisdictional law authority----God was. And it was in the form of covenant with God and had laws.
The apostolic church, also in the form of covenant from/with God, had no laws, had authority only in the teaching of the apostles in laying the foundation. Had no power over persons other than in church discipline. The structure of the church as to leadership of individual communities was established to protect the church in sound doctrine and build up and instruct the people in God's word, and prepare them to spread that word.

The authority of doctrine that the apostles established is now in book form, the word of God.The church has no adjudication of law as it has no laws. It has no central human authority. Jesus is the head of the church and the word of God (sola scriptura) is its only authority.
 
And then though it was the church founded by Christ to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation!
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
 
So even YOU believe in Unconditional Election...

Just relax, and find someone who can help you figure us out. Calvinism is not as bad as you think it is...

See what happens when you start listening instead of Telling; or by not changing the Subject?
Don’t Presbyterians baptize infants, aren’t they Calvinist?

There are conditions
The parents (God parents in the case that something happens to the parents) must believe and must promise to raise the child in the admonition of the Lord and be educated in the Christian faith,.
 
Reply

You seem to be trolling for a hit.
Anyways, this suits me fine from the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith under Sanctification (paragraph 1) (which appears what you are questioning...

They who are united to Christ, effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart and a new spirit created in them through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, are also farther sanctified, really and personally,1 through the same virtue, by his Word and Spirit dwelling in them;2 the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed,3 and the several lusts of it are more and more weakened and mortified,4 and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces,5 to the practice of all true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.6



1 Acts 20:32; Rom. 6:5–6
2 John 17:17; Eph. 3:16–19; 1 Thess. 5:21–23
3 Rom. 6:14
4 Gal. 5:24
5 Col. 1:11
6 2 Cor. 7:1; Heb. 12:14

Better from the Belgic...

Article 24: The Sanctification of Sinners​


We believe that this true faith,


produced in us by the hearing of God’s Word
and by the work of the Holy Spirit,


regenerates us and makes us new creatures,58


causing us to live a new life59
and freeing us from the slavery of sin.


Therefore,
far from making people cold
toward living in a pious and holy way,
this justifying faith,
quite to the contrary,
so works within them that


apart from it


they will never do a thing out of love for God
but only out of love for themselves
and fear of being condemned.


So then, it is impossible
for this holy faith to be unfruitful in a human being,
seeing that we do not speak of an empty faith
but of what Scripture calls
“faith working through love,”60


which moves people to do by themselves
the works that God has commanded


in the Word.
Ez 36:25-27 basically
 
I do not think so.

I say that because redemption and justification are both smaller, incremental constituent elements of salvation, not the whole of salvation. Neither is identical to, synonymous with, nor interchangeable with the word "salvation." Paul wrote "saved," not "redeemed," and not "justified." He expounded on those smaller, incremental aspects of salvation elsewhere. A person is redeemed by Jesus and Jesus is the first cause of justification (not faith). Both exist, of course, by grace. Furthermore, neither word is mentioned in Ephesians 2. The entire chapter is void of either term. The term "redemption" is mentioned a few times at the opening of the epistle, but justification is absent from the entire epistle. It also helps to note the word-tenses in chapters 1 and 2 to follow the flow of Paul's commentary.

Having mentioned redemption, Paul moves forward and discusses salvation in chapter 2.
But He does refer to a past tense event which could only be redemption

Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23


Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)
 
Jurisdiction:The power, right, or authority to interpret apply law. The power or right to exercise authority: control.

Law: a rule of conduct or action prescribed as binding or enforced by a controlling authority.

Authority: the power to enforce laws, exact obedience, command, determine, or judge.

In the OT Israel was not the jurisdictional law authority----God was. And it was in the form of covenant with God and had laws.
The apostolic church, also in the form of covenant from/with God, had no laws, had authority only in the teaching of the apostles in laying the foundation. Had no power over persons other than in church discipline. The structure of the church as to leadership of individual communities was established to protect the church in sound doctrine and build up and instruct the people in God's word, and prepare them to spread that word.

The authority of doctrine that the apostles established is now in book form, the word of God.The church has no adjudication of law as it has no laws. It has no central human authority. Jesus is the head of the church and the word of God (sola scriptura) is its only authority.
Matt 23:1
Matt 21:43
Matt 16:18-19

I don’t see the authority of the apostles ending Matt 28:19 acts 1:8 With the same authority as Christ Jn 20:21-23

Jn 16:13 lead the apostles into all truth then they must teach us Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 acts 8:31 etc.

Thanks
 
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