What is grace?

[donadams]

Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

What happened to “glory to God alone”?

 

[Arial]

Matt 23:1

Matt 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
But let's presume you meant to include:"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you.
That does not mean they had "jurisdictional law authority". They gave it to themselves as legalistic authoritarian judgmental judges. They were under God's law.

Matt 21:43

Yes. But that does not validate what you said.

Matt 16:18-19

The keys to the kingdom are a metaphor specifying how the apostles are foundational to the church. (His church not the RCC). They have been given binding a losing powers which lock and unlock doors. They open the kingdom to those who share Peter's confession and exclude those who will not receive the testimony of Christ. The apostolic foundation of the church (His church not the RCC) laid by the apostles is in the scriptures which are now the keys of Christ's authority in the church.

I don’t see the authority of the apostles ending Matt 28:19 acts 1:8 With the same authority as Christ Jn 20:21-23

The authority of the apostles ended when they did. They accomplished the purpose for which they were sent. The foundation is laid. The foundation is the doctrine taught by the apostles. No new foundation is being laid. Christ is the head of His church (not the RCC).

 

[Soyeong]

Their were three parts of the law

Moral law is eternal the Ten Commandments

The jurisdictional law authority
Taken from Israel and given to the apostolic church

The ceremonial law which is fulfilled done away with

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Thanks

People are free to divide up God's law into any number of parts or categories that they want and decide for themselves which laws they think best fits into those categories, but that does not establish that any of the authors of the Bible categorized God's laws in the same manner. The Bible does not list which laws are moral, jurisdictional, or ceremonial, and doesn't even refer to those as being categories of law, so if a group of people were asked to create lists of which of God's laws they think are moral, jurisdictional, or ceremonial, then they would create a wide variety of lists and none of those people should interpret the authors of the Bible as referring to a list of law that they just created.

For example, some people might consider the Ten Commandments to be the moral law while others might include the greatest two commandments as being moral laws or the laws likes the ones against rape or kidnapping. Some debate whether the 4th Commandments is a moral or ceremonial law or whether laws in regard to marriage are moral, jurisdictional, or ceremonial, but they are free to have their opinions because the Bible doesn't state that any of its laws belong in any of those categories.

I could choose to categorize God's laws based upon which part of the body is most commonly used to obey/disobey them, such as with the law against theft being a hand law, but if I were to try to insert the category of law that I had just created back into the Bible, such as by interpreting Colossians 2:14 as referring to hand laws being done away with, then I would be making the same sort of error that you are making.

The existence of the category of moral law implies that we can be acting morally while living in disobedience to the laws that aren't in that category, however, there are no examples in the Bible of disobedience to any of God's laws being considered to be moral. Rather, morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. Every legislator gives laws according to what they think ought to be done and no one knows better than God what ought to be done. For someone to claim that some of God's laws are not moral laws is to claim that God made a moral error about what ought to be done when he gave those laws, which would also be claiming to have greater moral knowledge than God.

In regard to Colossians 2:14. God's law was given for our own good (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), so it is not against us, but rather the ordinances that were against us were the list of sins that we have committed, which were nailed to Christ's cross so that he died in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, so that verse has nothing to do with doing away with any of God's laws, especially because they are all eternal (Psalms 119:160).

 

[prism]

What happened to “glory to God alone”?

All glory goes to God for predestinating us, calling us, justifying, glorifying and most important sacrificing His Life for us and for our salvation.

 

[donadams]

Matt 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
But let's presume you meant to include:"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you.
That does not mean they had "jurisdictional law authority". They gave it to themselves as legalistic authoritarian judgmental judges. They were under God's law.

The seat of Moses represented the jurisdiction authority
The keys of the kingdom (open & shut) and the power to bind and loose and Christ “commanding obedience to them!

Yes. But that does not validate what you said.

The keys to the kingdom are a metaphor specifying how the apostles are foundational to the church. (His church not the RCC). They have been given binding a losing powers which lock and unlock doors. They open the kingdom to those who share Peter's confession and exclude those who will not receive the testimony of Christ. The apostolic foundation of the church (His church not the RCC) laid by the apostles is in the scriptures which are now the keys of Christ's authority in the church.

The authority of the apostles ended when they did. They accomplished the purpose for which they were sent. The foundation is laid. The foundation is the doctrine taught by the apostles. No new foundation is being laid. Christ is the head of His church (not the RCC).

The apostles continue till Christ returns in glory
Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:8 acts 1:15-26

Bind and loose
To bind the conscious of men to believe what they teach and to forgive sins

Thanks

 

[donadams]

People are free to divide up God's law into any number of parts or categories that they want and decide for themselves which laws they think best fits into those categories, but that does not establish that any of the authors of the Bible categorized God's laws in the same manner. The Bible does not list which laws are moral, jurisdictional, or ceremonial, and doesn't even refer to those as being categories of law, so if a group of people were asked to create lists of which of God's laws they think are moral, jurisdictional, or ceremonial, then they would create a wide variety of lists and none of those people should interpret the authors of the Bible as referring to a list of law that they just created.

For example, some people might consider the Ten Commandments to be the moral law while others might include the greatest two commandments as being moral laws or the laws likes the ones against rape or kidnapping. Some debate whether the 4th Commandments is a moral or ceremonial law or whether laws in regard to marriage are moral, jurisdictional, or ceremonial, but they are free to have their opinions because the Bible doesn't state that any of its laws belong in any of those categories.

I could choose to categorize God's laws based upon which part of the body is most commonly used to obey/disobey them, such as with the law against theft being a hand law, but if I were to try to insert the category of law that I had just created back into the Bible, such as by interpreting Colossians 2:14 as referring to hand laws being done away with, then I would be making the same sort of error that you are making.

The existence of the category of moral law implies that we can be acting morally while living in disobedience to the laws that aren't in that category, however, there are no examples in the Bible of disobedience to any of God's laws being considered to be moral. Rather, morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. Every legislator gives laws according to what they think ought to be done and no one knows better than God what ought to be done. For someone to claim that some of God's laws are not moral laws is to claim that God made a moral error about what ought to be done when he gave those laws, which would also be claiming to have greater moral knowledge than God.

In regard to Colossians 2:14. God's law was given for our own good (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), so it is not against us, but rather the ordinances that were against us were the list of sins that we have committed, which were nailed to Christ's cross so that he died in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, so that verse has nothing to do with doing away with any of God's laws, especially because they are all eternal (Psalms 119:160).

Christians are forbidden to practice the mosaic covenant feasts, fasts, Passover etc. we have a new covenant

Christ replaces David as king! Lk 1:32-33

The new covenant replaces the mosaic covenant! Matt 21:43 heb 8:13 heb 8:6 heb 9:15
Gal 4 new Jerusalem / new creation
Mary mother of all those living in the new creation of Jesus Christ replaces eve as the mother of the living! Jn 19:26 rev 12:17

The new covenant church is the new Israel! Matt 21:43

The cross replaces the Star of David as the symbol of salvation!


Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new covenant
Heb 10:9

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

There is no mosaic covenant anymore, there is only one mediator Jesus Christ of the new covenant!

No salvation in any other!

 

[donadams]

All glory goes to God for predestinating us, calling us, justifying, glorifying and most important sacrificing His Life for us and for our salvation.

Why does it say He glorifies us! Shares His glory with His saints?

 

[Soyeong]

Christians are forbidden to practice the mosaic covenant feasts, fasts, Passover etc. we have a new covenant

Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, including keeping God's feasts, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), so why does it make sense to you to think that followers of Christ are forbidden to follow Christ? In 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul said that we should continue to observe Passover, which is the opposite of forbidding it. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts.

There is no mosaic covenant anymore, there is only one mediator Jesus Christ of the new covenant!

No salvation in any other!

I have been speaking about the way that we should live under the New Covenant. The Mosaic Law is God's word and it is contradictory to have salvation through faith God's word made flesh, but not through faith in God's word.

 

[prism]

Why does it say He glorifies us! Shares His glory with His saints?

It? Where do I find 'it'?

 

[donadams]

Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, including keeping God's feasts, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), so why does it make sense to you to think that followers of Christ are forbidden to follow Christ? In 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul said that we should continue to observe Passover, which is the opposite of forbidding it. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts.


I have been speaking about the way that we should live under the New Covenant. The Mosaic Law is God's word and it is contradictory to have salvation through faith God's word made flesh, but not through faith in God's word.

The old covenant practices pointed to the coming of the messiah Jesus Christ! To continue them would be to declare: “Christ has not come in the flesh”!

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth notthat Jesus Christ is come in the fleshis not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Christ the high priest changed the old covenant Passover not the new covenant Passover or or sacrifice of Christ, Jn 1:29 Jesus high priest wearing the seamless garment and pronounced the words that the high are required to say to consummate the Passover sacrifice “it is finished “!
Thanks

 

[donadams]

It? Where do I find 'it'?

Scripture!
rom 8:30
Eph 1:8
Eph 3:16
Col 1:27
2 thes 1:10
2 thes 1:12
2 thes 2:14
1 pet 1:7
1 pet 4:14
1 pet 5:1
1 pet 5:4
1 pet 5:10

Jn 17:22 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Now if one sola be false they all be false! Amen!

 

[Soyeong]

The old covenant practices pointed to the coming of the messiah Jesus Christ! To continue them would be to declare: “Christ has not come in the flesh”!

1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth notthat Jesus Christ is come in the fleshis not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Christ the high priest changed the old covenant Passover not the new covenant Passover or or sacrifice of Christ, Jn 1:29 Jesus high priest wearing the seamless garment and pronounced the words that the high are required to say to consummate the Passover sacrifice “it is finished “!
Thanks

That still doesn't explain why you think it makes sense to interpret the Bible as speaking against following Christ. The Mosaic Law teaches us how to point to Christ and as his followers we should live in a way that points to him by following his example of obedience to it rather than a way that points away from him. In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the Mosaic Law, so Jesus did not do that. In Titus 2:14 Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus finished on the cross (Acts 21:20). In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, the antichrist is described as the man of lawlessness, which by contrast means that Christ is the man of lawfulness, so we can choose which one we want to follow.

 

[donadams]

Sola: glory to God alone?

Scripture!
rom 8:30
Eph 1:8
Eph 3:16
Col 1:27
2 thes 1:10
2 thes 1:12
2 thes 2:14
1 pet 1:7
1 pet 4:14
1 pet 5:1
1 pet 5:4
1 pet 5:10


Jn 17:22 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Now if one sola be false they all be false! Amen!

 

[donadams]

That still doesn't explain why you think it makes sense to interpret the Bible as speaking against following Christ. The Mosaic Law teaches us how to point to Christ and as his followers we should live in a way that points to him by following his example of obedience to it rather than a way that points away from him. In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the Mosaic Law, so Jesus did not do that. In Titus 2:14 Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus finished on the cross (Acts 21:20). In 2 Thessalonians 2:3, the antichrist is described as the man of lawlessness, which by contrast means that Christ is the man of lawfulness, so we can choose which one we want to follow.

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from thelaw, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of theletter.

 

[prism]

Scripture!
rom 8:30
Eph 1:8
Eph 3:16
Col 1:27
2 thes 1:10
2 thes 1:12
2 thes 2:14
1 pet 1:7
1 pet 4:14
1 pet 5:1
1 pet 5:4
1 pet 5:10

Jn 17:22 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Now if one sola be false they all be false! Amen!

Isaiah 42:8 ESV
I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols.

Isaiah 48:11 ESV
For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another.

God's glory is an incommunicable attribute of God. You are referring to the communicable aspect of His glory.
When we say 'sola Gloria's we are saying 'to God alone be the glory'...not man.
To which man would you like to give glory?

 

[donadams]

Isaiah 42:8 ESV
I am the LORD; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols.

Isaiah 48:11 ESV
For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another.

God's glory is an incommunicable attribute of God. You are referring to the communicable aspect of His glory.
When we say 'sola Gloria's we are saying 'to God alone be the glory'...not man.
To which man would you like to give glory?

To no other “god”!

 

[Arial]

The seat of Moses represented the jurisdiction authority

The law did that. The law was the jurisdiction authority. The law was given by God to Moses. Moses is only a second cause and he has no jurisdiction authority.

The keys of the kingdom (open & shut) and the power to bind and loose and Christ “commanding obedience to them!

What is "them"?

The apostles continue till Christ returns in glory
Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:8 acts 1:15-26

The apostles are all dead. The apostles had to meet certain criteria in order to lay the foundation of the church and carry apostolic authority as representatives of Christ. I suspect you do not know what "lay the foundation" means.
Acts 1:21-22 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day when He was taken up from us---one of these men must become with us a witness to His resurrection.

An apostle had to be appointed by Jesus. Acts 1:24-25 And they prayed and said, "You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.
In the case of Paul, he was not with Jesus during His earthly life but he witnessed the risen Christ on the road to Damascus and was appointed by Jesus as the apostle to the Gentiles.

Matt 28:19-20 What the apostles were sent to do was teach what we have in our NT. That was the foundation they laid. By extension we are to teach the same thing but that does not make us apostles. We are spreading the news in the foundation that was laid by them.
Acts 1:8 applies to the eleven He was talking to. The apostles, and later Paul. By extension, the same power to bear witness to the gospel is given to all believers, but we only preach and teach what the apostles gave to us. It does not make us apostles. Nothing is being added to the foundation.
Acts 1:15-26 I just gave those same scriptures to show that no one since the death of the apostles meets the qualifications of apostle. Did you skip over that part when you used these same scriptures to prove that there are apostles today? Did it not register with you what was being said?

Bind and loose
To bind the conscious of men to believe what they teach and to forgive sins

No one has the power to bind the conscious of men whatever that is, but let's assume you mean conscience. And only God has the power to forgive sins for it is Him who is ultimately sinned against. And it is not about binding anyone to believe what is being taught, though the RCC does a good facsimile of doing so.

 

[prism]

To no other “god”!

To which man would you like to give glory?

 

[Soyeong]

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from thelaw, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of theletter.

In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God, but contrasted that with the law of sin that held him captive. In Romans 7:6, it speaks about being released from a law that held us captive, so he was speaking about being released from the law of sin, not the Law of God. It would be absurd to interpret that as referring to the Law of God as if Paul delighted in being held captive or as if he wanted to be released from a law that he delighted in obeying.

 

[donadams]

The law did that. The law was the jurisdiction authority. The law was given by God to Moses. Moses is only a second cause and he has no jurisdiction authority.

What is "them"?

The apostles are all dead. The apostles had to meet certain criteria in order to lay the foundation of the church and carry apostolic authority as representatives of Christ. I suspect you do not know what "lay the foundation" means.
Acts 1:21-22 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from the baptism of John until the day when He was taken up from us---one of these men must become with us a witness to His resurrection.

An apostle had to be appointed by Jesus. Acts 1:24-25 And they prayed and said, "You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.
In the case of Paul, he was not with Jesus during His earthly life but he witnessed the risen Christ on the road to Damascus and was appointed by Jesus as the apostle to the Gentiles.

Matt 28:19-20 What the apostles were sent to do was teach what we have in our NT. That was the foundation they laid. By extension we are to teach the same thing but that does not make us apostles. We are spreading the news in the foundation that was laid by them.
Acts 1:8 applies to the eleven He was talking to. The apostles, and later Paul. By extension, the same power to bear witness to the gospel is given to all believers, but we only preach and teach what the apostles gave to us. It does not make us apostles. Nothing is being added to the foundation.
Acts 1:15-26 I just gave those same scriptures to show that no one since the death of the apostles meets the qualifications of apostle. Did you skip over that part when you used these same scriptures to prove that there are apostles today? Did it not register with you what was being said?

No one has the power to bind the conscious of men whatever that is, but let's assume you mean conscience. And only God has the power to forgive sins for it is Him who is ultimately sinned against. And it is not about binding anyone to believe what is being taught, though the RCC does a good facsimile of doing so.

Matt 28:19-20 “I am with you until the end of the world”
Acts 1:8 “my witnesses unto the ends of the earth”

Requires successors of the apostles

Apostles and their successors the bishops have the same mission power and authority as Christ! Matt 28:18 “all authority”
Jn 20:21

Including the power to forgive sin!

Jn 20:21-23

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Matt 28:19) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9:4 eph 4:4 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13)

Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

The church is an extension of Christ!

The scripture says many of the same things of the apostolic church as it does Christ!

Light of the world: Jn 8:12 / Matt 5:14
Hear: Matt 17:5 acts 3:22 / Matt 18:17
Authority: Matt 28:17 / Jn 20:21
Reconciliation: 2 cor 5:19 / 2 cor 5:18
Forgive sins: Lk 5:20 / Jn 20:23

Truth: Jn 14:6 / 1 Tim 3:15

Jesus Christ and His church are one acts 9:4 eph 5:32 and the only means of salvation! Matt 28:19


Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Binding the conscience of all Christians the members of Christ and his church!

Example:
If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh) let him be anathema.

Council Of Ephesus – 431 A.D.

By the authority of Jesus Christ in His one true apostolic church!
Bound on earth and bound in heaven!

Thanks