What is grace?

[donadams]

I agree but we don’t deserve any of God’s benefits

Not owed anything.
Not entitled to anything.

All we have that is our own is sin and it’s due punishment

But we owe God for creating us!
And Christ for redeeming us!
And the Holy Spirit who sanctified us in the waters of baptism!

Thanks

Wow what?

 

[donadams]

No...

Please explain gen 2:7 Jn 10:10 Jn 14:6 Jn 20:21

 

[donadams]

Correct...

Then it’s completely ineffective

Ez 36:25-27

Grace enables us to do God’s will!
Grace requires works to bear fruit!

 

[Carbon]

We don’t have to correspond to grace? Or cooperate?

Cooperate? Then you make it works and no longer grace.

 

[Carbon]

Is grace the life of God?

What do you mean?

First, explain what grace is to you, then I may understand better what you are talking about.

Thanks

 

[Soyeong]

What is grace?

What kinds of grace are there?

Thanks

Grace is a gift and the content of that gift is getting to experience living in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Psalms 119:29, Exodus 33:13)

 

[Papa Smurf]

We owe God for creating us!
And Christ for redeeming us!
And the Holy Spirit who sanctified us in the waters of baptism!

Is grace the life of God? We don’t have to correspond to grace? Or cooperate?

Grace requires works to bear fruit!

Hi Don, considering some of the things that you've said in this thread about God's grace, perhaps it would be helpful for the rest of us if you defined what "grace" means to you, specifically, and why.

Thank you!

--Papa Smurf

edit: Whoops, sorry @Carbon, I walked away without posting it this, and then returned later and posted it w/o noticing that you had posted the same thing in the meantime

 

[prism]

Grace requires works to bear fruit!

How much works before fruit bearing starts?

 

[donadams]

Cooperate? Then you make it works and no longer grace.

Not so!

The initial movement of grace is free!

We must respond to grace!
Grace requires works to be fruitful and it’s not works but grace working thru love.

If I give you freely a bar of gold, you did nothing to deserve it, but until you sell it and buy food and things you need it remains a bar of gold completely ineffectual

Thanks

 

[donadams]

What do you mean?

First, explain what grace is to you, then I may understand better what you are talking about.

Thanks

Grace is the life of God in us
Supernatural life given to men
Jn 10:10
Jn 14:6
Jn 1:16
Jn 20:21
Eph 2:1 & 2:5 quickened or brought to life

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

“promises” sacred oath which is a sacrament

By the sacraments we have supernatural life!

Acts 17:28
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Jn 1:12 but as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 1:4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Thanks

 

[donadams]

Grace is a gift and the content of that gift is getting to experience living in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Psalms 119:29, Exodus 33:13)

The law is fulfilled?

Replacement theology

Christ replaces David as king! Lk 1:32-33

The new covenant replaces the mosaic covenant! Matt 21:43 heb 8:13 heb 8:6 heb 9:15
Gal 4 new Jerusalem / new creation
Mary mother of all those living in the new creation of Jesus Christ replaces eve as the mother of the living! Jn 19:26 rev 12:17

The new covenant church is the new Israel! Matt 21:43

The cross replaces the Star of David as the symbol of salvation!

Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new covenant
Heb 10:9

Thanks

 

[donadams]

How much works before fruit bearing starts?

Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

 

[prism]

Grace requires works to bear fruit!

How much works before fruit bearing starts?

Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Your initial statement was 'grace requires works to bear fruit'; I asked 'how much works?' and now instead of answering the question, you slipped in the topic of 'abiding' (Jn 15:5) which I take as our union with Christ..which is by grace! So we have gotten nowhere.
Let me start over, "How much works are needed before fruit bearing starts?"

 

[Carbon]

Not so!

The initial movement of grace is free!

Are we talking about grace? Or are we talking about ways we can make it mean what we like?

We must respond to grace!

Oh you will. If God is saving someone, it's irresistible.

Grace requires works to be fruitful and it’s not works but grace working thru love.

If I give you freely a bar of gold, you did nothing to deserve it, but until you sell it and buy food and things you need it remains a bar of gold completely ineffectual

Thanks

Here you go, explaining it as to how we humans would want it.

 

[Behold]

I agree but we don’t deserve any of God’s benefits

Not owed anything.
Not entitled to anything.

Sinners, coming to God, through Christ, .... are not worthy of "The Gift of Righteousness" which is "the Gift of Salvation".

However, its because the "all have sinned" are allowed by God's Grace, (which is the Cross of Christ), to be eternally forgiven, and eternally redeemed,..... THIS then = is the Mercy of God, clearly shown.

God makes a sinner RIGHTEOUS... and that is undeserved favor.

This is "God's Grace".

 

[Behold]

Grace is not offered.

Sure it is.

Grace is John 3:16

"for God so loved the WORLD = that HE GAVE".

See the "HE Gave"?..

That is the "offer of Jesus".. That is the offer of REDEMPTION through the Blood and Death of Christ on the Cross..... and that is God's Grace, freely given, to "all who will BELIEVE".

This is the "Gift of Salvation"... being GIVEN.. being OFFERED. to "the WORLD". John 3:16

 

[Rella]

donadams said:
We don’t have to correspond to grace? Or cooperate?

Correct...

The short question is Why?

The longer is , would that be because it is the unmerited favor from God? That by His grace, God is willing to forgive us and bless us abundantly, in spite of the fact that we don't deserve to be treated so well or dealt with so generously?

May I ask this....

Does grace come before or after "faith" or is it bestowed upon only those who have been "predetermined" and not for others?

 

[ReverendRV]

they short question is Why?

The longer is , would that be because it is the unmerited favor from God? That by His grace, God is willing to forgive us and bless us abundantly, in spite of the fact that we don't deserve to be treated so well or dealt with so generously?

May I ask this.

Does grace come before or after "faith" or is it bestowed upon only those who have been "predetermined" and not for others?

Yes; the reason why is because Grace is Unmerited. Like I said elsewhere, getting words and definitions right; goes a long way is correcting Dogma...

Practically EVERY Christian believes Grace is prevenient, that Grace is the first factor of Salvation. People haven't heard me say it lately, but if Faith is the first factor of Salvation; that person is saved by their very own Prevenient faith. It being their very own, Grace is no longer Grace...

Non Calvinists can't stand it when I mix Terms like Prevenient Grace, with words like Faith; I develop a New Term, 'Prevenient Faith'. This shows how ridiculous it is for them to insist Faith comes before Grace. My doing this works on the average Christian, but not on Posters who can't stand Calvinism. So, they keep on saying Faith is first; even if the Church thinks they're stupid...

Calvinism is pretty simple; any Christian who believes they're Saved by Grace, is a closet-Calvinist. Grace Alone is one of the 5-Solas, right? When Grace is first, it is Alone; until it ain't...

 

[Carbon]

Sure it is.

Grace is John 3:16

"for God so loved the WORLD = that HE GAVE".

See the "HE Gave"?..

That is the "offer of Jesus".. That is the offer of REDEMPTION through the Blood and Death of Christ on the Cross..... and that is God's Grace, freely given, to "all who will BELIEVE".

This is the "Gift of Salvation"... being GIVEN.. being OFFERED. to "the WORLD". John 3:16

Boy, you really dismantled the meaning of that passage.

So, we have to believe first, before we get grace.
Jesus' atonement was just an offer?

So, what it comes down to is God gives His Son as a sacrifice which makes it possible to get saved.
Therefore, all we have to do is make a decision to believe.

It's just an offer and we just have to do the work part (synergistically) to get saved. So, we are saved by works.

No thanks Behold, you can keep that.

 

[ReverendRV]

The short question is Why?

The longer is , would that be because it is the unmerited favor from God? That by His grace, God is willing to forgive us and bless us abundantly, in spite of the fact that we don't deserve to be treated so well or dealt with so generously?

May I ask this....

Does grace come before or after "faith" or is it bestowed upon only those who have been "predetermined" and not for others?

Unmerited Election ~ by ReverendRV * December 7

Ephesians 2:8 KJV; For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Compared to many Christians I know, I consider myself a ‘mini-Theologian’; and ABC, 123 kind of guy. In a way, this can be advantageous; I can say something which is as true as a deep Theologian but say it in a way that’s easier to understand. There’s a Doctrine called Unconditional Election, one of the 5-Points of Calvinism; it means that God chooses you to be Saved before you choose him as your God. I said to a friend that every Evangelical believes in Unconditional Election and I could prove it. Our verse says we are Saved by Grace, which means ‘Unmerited Favor’; there is no condition we can ever meet to merit his Election. God chooses people before they’ve done anything Good to deserve it or before they have done anything bad not to deserve it, that his purpose in Election will stand. I suggested to my friend that we change the name of Unconditional Election to Unmerited Election, and he said this would mean we are Saved by Grace. I said, “Now you’re getting it!” How can we be Saved any other way but by Grace?

Let me explain the problem. ~ Have you ever used the name of God as a cuss word? This takes his Name in Vain and is Blasphemy; what if someone went around running your name through the mud? Have you kept the Sabbath Day Holy? What if you invited someone to your Wedding but they decided to work in the yard instead; how would you feel? What if the person decided to choose your Fiancee for you before they would come? Shouldn’t YOUR purpose in your Engagement stand? These are just three of the Ten Commandments, not even counting Lying and Stealing; if God judged you by his standard would you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to Heaven or to Hell? Shouldn’t he choose anyone else but you to live happily ever after with him? Does this bother you? Then you should check to see if you’ve been invited…

This is what God’s invitation looks like. ~ For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting Life! Jesus Christ is the Son of God and he was the Sinless sacrifice which appeases the Wrath of God against Sinners. He was hung on a Cross and shed his blood for the remission of Sin that he never committed; the Just dying for the Unjust. He arose from the grave and became the Author of Life for everyone who would dare to believe. We’re Saved by God’s Grace through Faith in the Resurrected Savior Jesus Christ, apart from Works; that’s the only way it could be true that it’s not of ourselves. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as Lord and start reading your Bible. ~ Unconditional Election doesn’t mean you can’t be Saved but teaches that God chooses us first, then we choose him. Since God is allowed to choose his people like we are allowed to choose our own Spouse, God can choose you even if you think you’re unlovable. God’s Love is special…

John 15:19 NASB; "If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.