What does "Deity of Christ" mean?

[Fred]

It would seem you are doing the dodging of the "wrath of God" making the dying creation Jesus equal with eternal invisible God. the one faithful Creator

The creation knows Jesus us the Creator (Revelation 5:11; cf. 5:13 - 'every created thing'), because they all worship Him as such (Revelation 5:12-13).

 

[Mr GLee]

The creation knows Jesus us the Creator

Can you explain what you are trying to say.? Are you saying dying mankind, Jesus, the Son of man is the Creator ?

 

[Fred]

Can you explain what you are trying to say.? Are you saying dying mankind, Jesus, the Son of man is the Creator ?

Jesus is properly worshiped as being God.

The creation knows the Creator (Revelation 5).

 

[grace2]

This shows your lack of understanding the Bible and the Hypostatic Union. Christians don't have the Divine Nature in the same sense that Jesus Christ ontologically is according to the Divine Nature. What the verse is talking about is the sanctifying and empowering work of God who is indwelling us. The context demonstrates that point.

vs 3. His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.​

​

vs. 4. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.​

​

vs. 5-9 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.​

This shows your lack of understanding of both the Trinity and Hypostatic Union. The invisible image is not a copy. God has only one invisible image and all three persons is and of that image. "The Son is the image of the invisible God" (Colossians 1:15), which means he is God. And the context is in reference to the preexisting Son-person (vs. 15-17). He is Creator "all things were created," is Eternal "before all things," and is Sustainer "all things hold together." The Son being the Creator is a clear expression of his DEITY, and the context continues to talk about his preeminence (vs. 18).



Denials is not your best option. What you are doing is proof-texting: (Numbers 23: 19, 1 Samuel 15:29, Hosea 11:9). So naturally I disagree with your interpretation of those verses. This also shows your lack of understanding of the Hypostatic Union. I agree that "God is not man," which is a category mistake and a ontological error. We say, "Jesus Christ is both God and man" (a union) and we don't claim "God is a man." For example, Jesus Christ being Fully Human is derived from the human nature being composed of the whole body and soul/spirit, with all of the human attributes and properties. That is what qualify him as human. And "God" and "Man" are not properties and attributes of the Natures or of the Person. Rather it's what the natures have constituted what the Son-person to be, like: the Divine Nature constitutes the Son-person to be God and the Human Nature constitutes the selfsame Son-person to be Man.



Again, this shows your lack of understanding of both the Trinity and the Hypostatic Union. The Son-person isn't created, but always been God eternally. The human nature, on the other hand, was created. But we don't worship the Son-person as man, but him as God. Also, to worship any of the persons individually in the Trinity is giving glory to all three persons. The Father and the Son shares glory (John 11:4, 17:10). The Holy Spirit glorifies the Son (John 16:14), the Son glorifies the Father (John 5:41, 7:18, 8:50), and the Father glorifies the Son (John 8:54, 12:28, 13:32, 17:1, 5).



I understand what you are suggesting but having the Son on that particular level. The object of your faith and the one who receives your prayers is only a human being? That's flat-out idolatry. And Unitarians turn Jesus Christ into some kind of demi-god upon his exaltation. That is tritheism and polytheism at best.



We already had that discussion. Granville Sharp’s rule refutes Two Person view in 2 Peter 1:1 "our God and Savior Jesus Christ" and Titus 2:13 "our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ."



This shows your lack of knowledge in both the Trinity and the Hypostatic Union. Subordination is part of the framework. We call it "Relational/Economical Trinity" and the "Two Wills of Christ." Because the Son is equal to the Father according to the Divine Nature and subordinate to the Father according to the human nature.



Not according to John 8:58, Exodus 3:14.



Denial is your worst enemy.

Jesus Christ is Omniscient

Jesus Christ knows all things (1 John 3:20 i.e. John 16:30, John 21:17).​

Jesus Christ knows the Father (Matthew 11:27, John 7:29, 8:55, 10:15, 17:25).​

Jesus Christ knows all people (Psalm 139:1-4 i.e. John 2:24-25, Matthew 9:4, Mark 2:8, Luke 5:22, John 6:64).​

Jesus Christ knows where to catch fish, even a coin (Luke 5:4-6, Matthew 17:27).​

Jesus Christ is Omnipotent

Jesus Christ created all things (Jeremiah 32:17, Psalms 102:25 i.e. Hebrews 1:2-3, 10, 2:10, Colossians 1:16-17, John 1:1-3, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Romans 11:36, 1:20).​

Jesus Christ declares all things are possible and able (Job 42:1-2, Jeremiah 32:27 i.e. Luke 18:26-27, Matthew 9:28, Philippians 3:20–21).​

Jesus Christ performs miracles (John 2:11, Matthew 9:28, Luke 6:19, 8:46) and Divine titles (1 Corinthians 1:24, 2 Corinthians 12:9).​

Jesus Christ is Omnipresent

Jesus Christ fills the whole universe (Jeremiah 23:23-24, Psalms 139:7-10 i.e. Ephesians 4:10, 1:22-23, Colossians 3:11, Acts 17:27).​

Jesus Christ is with and in all the regenerated (John 14:23 i.e. Matthew 18:20, 28:20, 2 Corinthians 13:5, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 3:24).​

Sounds like you believe in a demi-god. In Trinitarianism, we teach the Greek word homoousio, which simply means "same essence." Whatever the Father is, the Son is. The Son has the exact same essence with the Father. And that naturally followed that the Son is co-equal and co-eternal. You really should learn what both the Trinity and Hypostatic Union teaches before you have discussions.



Really? (Matthew 14:33, Luke 24:52). Again, you really don't understand the Trinity. The Father receiving glory is part of the framework. To worship any of the persons individually in the Trinity, then all the persons is worshipped and glorified.

No need to address the rest of your post. Just pointless asserted claims.

All your lengthy posts are meaningless becasue you are not a born-again.

Born again means to accept Jesus as your Lord.

Your fruit is showing your Lord is not Jesus, your Lord is a triune god.

 

[grace2]

To all Triune god worshippers:

Jesus says you have to be born again for God's kingdom.

You guys have no idea about being born again.

It means to accept Jesus as your Lord.

Jesus says we know them by their fruit.

You guys are not showing the fruit of being faithful to God and Jesus.

You have to honor everything that Jesus says and practice it.

That's what it means to be born again.

This is for @Arial too.

 

[Fred]

It means to accept Jesus as your Lord.

Jesus is Lord means Jesus is YHWH.

See Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13. Lord (in reference to Jesus) is from YHWH in Joel 2:32 (3:5 in the LXX).

Those who deny Jesus is YHWH do not have the true Jesus of the Bible.

 

[Binyawmene]

That means he is not God. God is invisible, and the Son isn't. The invisible God is the Father who is Spirit.

God is Spirit
Jesus is not a Spirit

Right, God is essentially spiritual in nature.

⦁ The Father subsists in the Spiritual Nature.
⦁ The Son subsists in the Spiritual Nature.
⦁ The Holy Spirit subsists in the Spiritual Nature.

There is only one undivided and indivisible nature. This verse is in reference to the Father who is spiritual, since he is spiritual, then we worship him in Spirit. In the same way we worship the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Bible can only tell us about certain substantial qualities of God's nature, like: Love, Divine, Spiritual, Invisible, Light, and Truthful, etc. But when talking about the Hypostatic Union, then we refer to the nature as divine, or Divine Nature.

Here is something for you to chew on.
1 Timothy 3:16 "in flesh" and "in spirit"
1 Peter 3:18 "in flesh" and "in spirit"
Romans 1:3-4 "according to flesh" and "according to spirit"
The "in flesh" (is the human nature) and "in spirit" (is the Divine Nature).

Paul was speaking to a specific context, but exaggerating.

Good grief. Your denial is getting worst 'to the point' that Paul somehow was exaggerating.

Who is we?

Hypostatic Unionists.

God is not a man and Jesus is a man. Therefore Jesus is not God.

If you are going to apply logic, then make sure it's in alignment to Scriptures. Your deduction only works if you assume Unitarianism and deny that Jesus is God Scripturally. That's why the conclusion makes no sense Scripturally and according to the Hypostatic Union framework. You can't make a logical deduction based on these verses. The best you can do is simply deny.

Scriptural reference for 'Jesus Christ is GOD': (John 1:1, Colossians 2:9).
Father's claim (Hebrews 1:8).
Son's claim (John 8:58-59).
Jews' claim (John 5:18, 10:31-33).
Peter's claim (2 Peter 1:1).
Thomas' claim (John 20:28).
John's claim (1 John 5:20).
Paul's claim (Titus 2:13, Romans 9:5).

Jesus Christ is God. Jesus Christ is man. Therefore, Jesus Christ is both God and man.

You eventually had to convert God from a Person into a Nature and then in that way you make it so that Jesus has the Nature of God - presto changeo - now you have turned Jesus into God; the buck stops here.

God is person. If X person has the nature of X person then that person does not become the person they have the nature of. What you said sounds religious, but it's false.

The above quote is gibberish talk. Try learning what the Trinity and Hypostatic Union teaches. Only thing you are doing is denying that Jesus Christ is God and assuming Unitarianism is true. That's not an argument. It's like, "denying that a orange is juicy" and "talking about a apple." You haven't even made an argument against the Trinity or the Hypostatic Union.

When you make these sort of grandiose claims you need to be right all the time. I only need to prove you wrong one time.

Jesus is not omniscient:

Matt 24​

36No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.​

Jesus is not omnipotent:

Hebrews 5​

7During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence.​

Jesus is not omnipresent:

Mark 1​

45Instead he went out and began to talk freely, spreading the news. As a result, Jesus could no longer enter a town openly but stayed outside in lonely places. Yet the people still came to him from everywhere.​

Logically, you cannot argue from the Hypostatic Union doctrinal position that "Jesus Christ is a Man." Because you would be affirming and adding support to what we already believe about Jesus Christ. Your common theme is demonstrated by pointing out Bible verses that Jesus Christ has claimed to be "a man." Or pointing out attributes of his "humanity" like being hungry, weeping, and lacking knowledge, etc. Then make bare assertions that he never claims to be "God." From your mindset its assumed that Jesus Christ being a man negates over him being God. Unfortunately, there would be no argument between both Hypostatic Unionists and Man-Only advocates in that particular regard. Even at the most basic level fundamentally. Since ultimately there would be a passable or just good enough acceptable agreement about Jesus Christ's humanity.

All you did was affirm the Hypostatic Union doctrine.

⦁ Jesus Christ is both omniscient (John 16:30) and ignorant (Matthew 24:36). Jesus Christ according to the human nature Jesus grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52), didn't know there was figs on the tree, didn't know where they laid Lazarus, and didn't know who touched him. But he is greater than Solomon (Matthew 12:42), knows all people, knows the Father, and knows all things (John 16:30, John 21:17, 1 John 3:20).

⦁ Jesus Christ is both omnipresent (Matthew 18:20) and bodily localized (Matthew 4:18). Jesus Christ as 'walking' is according to the human nature, which is, a localized physical bodily movement (Matthew 4:18, 14:25-26, Luke 4:30, 24:15, etc.) and not everywhere present like the Divine Nature that is 'filling the whole universe' (Jeremiah 23:23-24, Psalms 139:7-10 i.e. Ephesians 4:10, 1:22-23, Colossians 3:11, Acts 17:27).

⦁ Jesus Christ is both omnipotent (Colossians 1:17) and powerless (Matthew 8:23). Jesus Christ according to the human nature is sleeping (Matthew 8:23), hungry, thirst, weeping, and felt abandon, etc, but yet, according to the Divine Nature is sustaining all thing, and all things hold together (Hebrews 1:3, Colossians 1:17 i.e. 1 Corinthians 8:6, Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 2:10, Romans 11:36)

Hebrews 4:15 says Jesus was tempted to sin in every way, but did not sin. However, James 1:13 says God cannot be tempted to sin. There nature isn't identical. Before you go mouthing off about the hypostatic union again maybe you should take some time to try to prove it even exists.

Wayne Grudem, "Systematic Theology" which states: "Scriptures does not tell us that "Jesus was tempted" and that "Jesus was not tempted" ...The Bible tells us that "Jesus was tempted" and "Jesus was fully Man" and "Jesus was fully God" and "God cannot be tempted". This combination of teachings from Scriptures... he could be tempted in one sense and yet, in another sense, not be tempted" (p. 538). Because Jesus has two different distinctive natures that are not in the same sense. It would be a category mistake. Being tempted is not overlapping and concurring into the Divine Nature. Jesus as a man is tempted according to the human nature only, but he cannot be tempted by evil as God according to the Divine Nature too.

 

[Mr GLee]

Jesus is properly worshiped as being God.

The creation knows the Creator (Revelation 5).

Yes the Creator gave his faith as a labor of his love. Just as with our brother in the lord Jesus .

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Is jesus your brother in the Lord?????

Mark 3:35For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother

 

[Fred]

Yes the Creator gave his faith as a labor of his love. Just as with our brother in the lord Jesus .

Matthew 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Is jesus your brother in the Lord?????

Mark 3:35For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother

Jesus is my Creator (God).

 

[grace2]

Jesus is Lord means Jesus is YHWH.

See Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13. Lord (in reference to Jesus) is from YHWH in Joel 2:32 (3:5 in the LXX).

Those who deny Jesus is YHWH do not have the true Jesus of the Bible.

Jesus is not your Lord. So everything you spread is heresy.

 

[Mr GLee]

Jesus is Lord means Jesus is YHWH.

See Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13. Lord (in reference to Jesus) is from YHWH in Joel 2:32 (3:5 in the LXX).

Those who deny Jesus is YHWH do not have the true Jesus of the Bible.

Why use a tetragram? (YHWH) It can only cause confusion .

Yes, Jesus the Christ (not Jesus the son of man dying mankind.)

Jesus as a prophet is sent as apostle. He was given words from the Father to reveal the "I Am."

Dying mankind is not eternal God (I AM)

The first time the Father gave words to His prophets Jesus.saying . . I Am . . it literally moved them backwards and fell to the ground (the Spirit of judgement falling back slain in the Spirit.) Showing the tongue of God has the power of death.

The second time the father gave him the words I Am it showed his tongue has the power of new life . . releasing the believers from the Judas satan inspired crowd

John 18: 5-8 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. (words of the father) And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.Jesus (given words from the father) answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me,(christ) let these go their way:

Proverbs 18:21Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

 

[Fred]

Jesus is not your Lord. So everything you spread is heresy.

You couldn't address the evidence and passages I supplied because they refute your false jesus.

 

[Fred]

Why use a tetragram? (YHWH) It can only cause confusion .

Yes, Jesus the Christ (not Jesus the son of man dying mankind.)

Jesus as a prophet is sent as apostle. He was given words from the Fath

For those who allow it to.

er to reveal the "I Am."

Dying mankind is not eternal God (I AM)

Revelation 5:13 (which you keep dodging) proves Jesus is the Creator.

 

[Mr GLee]

Jesus is my Creator (God).

Yes the Christ. . not Jesus the son of man . Satan would have it as all one in the same. It's his goal to deceive the whole world that eternal God is a temporal dying Jewish man .

 

[Mr GLee]

For those who allow it to.

Why offer confusion?

Revelation 5:13 (which you keep dodging) proves Jesus is the Creator.

I already know that Jesus as the Christ (eternal God ) is the one Creator. The Son of man Jesus dying mankind was created by Christ over two thousand years ago .

The son of man Jesus is not the Creator. . he is a creation of the Creator. Christ the Holy anointing Spirit of God .

The Son of man Jesus could declare all day and night. "let there be" and nothing would appear.

 

[grace2]

You couldn't address the evidence and passages I supplied because they refute your false jesus.

You would not accept the Truth.

So it is meanless to talk to you.

Bye.

 

[Fred]

Yes the Christ. . not Jesus the son of man .

The above is false.

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/the-trinity.337/page-17#post-58888

 

[Fred]

You would not accept the Truth.

So it is meanless to talk to you.

Bye.

You keep dodging Acts 2:21 and Romans 10:13.

This isn't surprising.

 

[Fred]

Why offer confusion?

Then you need to educate yourself more.

The son of man Jesus is not the Creator

Since as the Son of Man He is the proper recipient of prayer demonstrates He is the Creator. For only God is the proper recipient of prayer.

 

[Mr GLee]

You couldn't address the evidence and passages I supplied because they refute your false jesus.

Address that what you call evidence again ?

God spoke through the son of man, Jesus the prophet .The Father sent him as a apostle.It's what prophets do declare the will of another as messenger they declared the will of the creator. . . the unseen Holy Father, the living abiding word. The word that divides between the thoughts and intents and strengthens the believer to hear and do the will of God . How beautiful are the feet of the messengers sent by God.

Not how beautiful is there own dying will. as some teach venerate the apostles.

Not the dying will of the son of man, Jesus .

Jesus said not my will (no power) but you Father the will with plenty of "let there be" good power more than enough to raise the dead and rebuke the father of lies.

Born again Christians have his power that works in us the powerless dying. But those born again would never say it as power is of us, dying mankind

That I think is the giving over of the power as if coming from the Son of man Jesus (dying mankind) would define blasphemy. . . accrediting the power of God things of our invisible God giving it over to dying flesh

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Nothing is of us. Like Jesus replied his dying flesh profits for zero and it the unseen Holy Spirit that give new spirit life the poring out of His eternal Holy Spirit alone could profit .

Many disciples walked away and no longer followed. They were looking for a fleshly god to venerate called a outward Jew .

New creation not rebuilt or reconditioned .