What does "Deity of Christ" mean?

[Dave_Regenerated]

Yes.

As far as I know, there are no modern Unitarians that believe the Bible is inerrant. They are all liberal in theology.

 

[Fred]

As far as I know, there are no modern Unitarians that believe the Bible is inerrant. They are all liberal in theology.

I think these do (could be others as well)
Jehovah's Witness
Christadelphians
The Way International
biblicalunitarian

 

[Runningman]

As far as I know, there are no modern Unitarians that believe the Bible is inerrant. They are all liberal in theology.

There are a lot of Unitarians that believe Scripture is inerrant. Of course, we lay claim to God, Jesus, and all of the disciples themselves being Unitarian and themselves knowing the Scripture is inerrant. I don't see any disconnect between there being one God known as the Father and Unitarianism and what the Bible says.

I actually began as a Trinitarian.

If I had found the same discrepancies in Unitarianism that I had found in Trinitarianism then I would have raised issue with that as well. I have no horse in the race, so to speak, about what the Bible says. My goal is to only represent it fairly and accurately in a way the doesn't contradict itself and isn't confusing and bravely believe what Jesus does about his God.

It's very easy to evangelize non-believers into Unitarianism. I don't need to create a long, confusing, theology and explain to people how a man is somehow God, for example.

The strength of Unitarianism is that the Bible directly says what we believe. We don't need creeds, just scripture is enough. The same can't be said for Trinitarianism, i.e., there is no verse that says "The only true God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." While on the other hand Unitarians enjoy explicit declarations like John 17:3, Ephesians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Thess. 1:9,10 that directly and plainly say who we know God and Jesus are.

p.s. - "Unitarian Universalists" are liberals and aren't Christians; it's a secular group. It isn't the same thing as what Bible-believing Unitarians hold to.

 

[Mr GLee]

Was Numbers 23:19 written before or after Jesus was born of Mary?

First it makes no difference to God, who lives outside of time. His living word worked in their hearts of them born again like Abel ust as now.

Prophecy looks back, to the present and the future. ..........Prophesying is not guessing the past, future or the present

1 Corinthians 3:21-23King James Version Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's; Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's; And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God'

One third of human history had passed before God moved Moses to give a proper historical view of someone who was there and brings a proper spiritual understanding. No such doctrine a first recorded .Peter ran faster or his name mentioned first.

That's a tool for Catholicism or any government of men that have a pecking order "who is the greatest" . First mention (false doctrine)

What it does not do is mention the unmentionable like of one (Matthew 16) that Peter, dying mankind rebuked our unseen Holy Lord and forbid the Son of man to do the will of the one Holy Father.

Or the first to deny Christ again when confronted by three young ladies. I do not know what it is you three are talking about I don't know Jesus the Son of man never met him I am not my brothers keeper (the parable of Cain and Abel) Peter a slow learner like myself. Christ did not give up on him .Just as promised in Philippians 1:6 if he our confidence has began the good teaching work in us he will finish till our last breath.

You could say a open book test passing go. . receiving the end 200 % . . .the double portion or the Christians golden measure.

Or like in John 21 Peter the first one to go town and spread the lies of oral traditions of dying mankind.(John will never die) Jesus said if every time he has to dispel the lying oral tradition of dying mankind and wrote then in a book we would need a bigger planet to hold the volumes upon volumes of the lies of the oraltardion of the dying fathers. God is no respecter of persons (dying flesh and blood)

The last will be first just as the first shall be last no playing or "who is the greatest" ,we already know our unseen eternal Holy Father is #1 "The Greatest" H alone is the head of the church. Yoked with His love our daily bread suffering can be lighter with a hope beyond our last breath of oxygen

God is not a man as us and neither is there any infalible fleshly umpire that stands between our Holy Father not seen and lying mankind seen as if he had the approval of God and man . called a daysman or what you must call a Pope

Job 9:32-33 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment. Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.

The same place of the Son of man, Jesus (daysman) when venerated to and called Good Master .Jesus refused to take the place of daysman (an abomination of desolation Making the invisible God as our Holy Father to no effect . He is the infallible teaching Spirit of God .Not the POpe your daysman

Mark 10:16-18King James Version16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Jesus refused to bow down to the daysman the spirit of lies

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

There are a lot of Unitarians that believe Scripture is inerrant. Of course, we lay claim to God, Jesus, and all of the disciples themselves being Unitarian and themselves knowing the Scripture is inerrant. I don't see any disconnect between there being one God known as the Father and Unitarianism and what the Bible says.

I actually began as a Trinitarian.

If I had found the same discrepancies in Unitarianism that I had found in Trinitarianism then I would have raised issue with that as well. I have no horse in the race, so to speak, about what the Bible says. My goal is to only represent it fairly and accurately in a way the doesn't contradict itself and isn't confusing and bravely believe what Jesus does about his God.

It's very easy to evangelize non-believers into Unitarianism. I don't need to create a long, confusing, theology and explain to people how a man is somehow God, for example.

The strength of Unitarianism is that the Bible directly says what we believe. We don't need creeds, just scripture is enough. The same can't be said for Trinitarianism, i.e., there is no verse that says "The only true God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." While on the other hand Unitarians enjoy explicit declarations like John 17:3, Ephesians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Thess. 1:9,10 that directly and plainly say who we know God and Jesus are.

p.s. - "Unitarian Universalists" are liberals and aren't Christians; it's a secular group. It isn't the same thing as what Bible-believing Unitarians hold to.

What is an example of a Unitarian church or book? (I don't mean the Bible)

 

[Fred]

First it makes no difference to God,

First, it makes a difference to God because your time frame is off.

His isn't.

 

[Arial]

The strength of Unitarianism is that the Bible directly says what we believe. We don't need creeds, just scripture is enough. The same can't be said for Trinitarianism, i.e., there is no verse that says "The only true God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." While on the other hand Unitarians enjoy explicit declarations like John 17:3, Ephesians 4:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Thess. 1:9,10 that directly and plainly say who we know God and Jesus are.

Then why did the set out to rewrite it in 2000 and are still in the process of doing so, calling it the REV, and without disclosing their Unitarian and Open Theology bias? A Bible in which they remove all personal pronouns pertaining to the Holy Spirit, and decapitalizing those things such as Word in John 1:1 that might make it appear that Jesus was pre-existent and eternal, among other things.

 

[CherubRam]

Lying Pen

Jeremiah 8:8
“‘How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the Lord,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

1 Timothy 1:3
As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God,…

Isaiah 8:12
“Do not call conspiracy everything this people calls a conspiracy; do not fear what they fear, and do not dread it.

Jeremiah 11:9
And the Lord said unto me, A conspiracy is found among the men of Judah, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

Ezekiel 22:25
There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.



2 Thessalonians 2:2
not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come…


Here is that letter in our bibles.
Matthew 27:51
51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53 They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.

 

[Arial]

It's very easy to evangelize non-believers into Unitarianism. I don't need to create a long, confusing, theology and explain to people how a man is somehow God, for example.

It is easy to evangelize a non-believer into a lot of things, but if the thing is a lie, what is gained? FYI Trinitarians as rule, do not evangelize with a long, confusing, theology on Jesus being God and man. They evangelize on Jesus being the Savior for the forgiveness of our sin. The rest is growth. And if one is of the Reformed theology, they know it is an issue of the heart being changed and that change not being brought about through clever speech and persuasive language, but by God. That what is important is for people to hear the gospel, that their part in it is preaching the gospel, and the belief is an act of grace in them.

I have never been in a Unitarian church, but if forums are any example, I would guess they spend a great deal of time indoctrinating with Jesus NOT being God. And pull out all those proof texts everyone of them uses on forums, to do so. I would guess there is a great deal of training on how to counter the Trinity and how to debate a Trinitarian on the subject. IOW one of the primary purposes of the Unitarian denomination is an effort in destruction of traditional/orthodox Christianity.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Then why did the set out to rewrite it in 2000 and are still in the process of doing so, calling it the REV, and without disclosing their Unitarian and Open Theology bias? A Bible in which they remove all personal pronouns pertaining to the Holy Spirit, and decapitalizing those things such as Word in John 1:1 that might make it appear that Jesus was pre-existent and eternal, among other things.

I don't believe the original Bible was written with punctuation.

 

[Arial]

I don't believe the original Bible was written with punctuation.

The original manuscripts were written without capitalization and punctuation. But what does that have to do with what I said?

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

The original manuscripts were written without capitalization and punctuation. But what does that have to do with what I said?

Everything.

 

[Fred]

The original manuscripts were written without capitalization and punctuation. But what does that have to do with what I said?

"Originally the Bible was written in all capital letters without punctuation, accent marks, or spaces between the words."

An Introduction to the Biblical Greek Alphabet

There’s a wealth of awesome resources available to help pastors and preachers understand God’s Word, and it would be unfair to claim that the only way to…

zondervanacademic.com

 

[Runningman]

What is an example of a Unitarian church or book? (I don't mean the Bible)

An example of a Unitarian church would be the Biblical Unitarians. I haven't read any of their books. I was looking through the books they recommend on their website and I would personally be interested in reading One God & One Lord by John W. Schoenheit because I am familiar with his commentaries.

 

[Arial]

"Originally the Bible was written in all capital letters without punctuation, accent marks, or spaces between the words."

An Introduction to the Biblical Greek Alphabet

There’s a wealth of awesome resources available to help pastors and preachers understand God’s Word, and it would be unfair to claim that the only way to…

zondervanacademic.com

Correction heard and accepted.

 

[Runningman]

It is easy to evangelize a non-believer into a lot of things, but if the thing is a lie, what is gained? FYI Trinitarians as rule, do not evangelize with a long, confusing, theology on Jesus being God and man. They evangelize on Jesus being the Savior for the forgiveness of our sin. The rest is growth. And if one is of the Reformed theology, they know it is an issue of the heart being changed and that change not being brought about through clever speech and persuasive language, but by God. That what is important is for people to hear the gospel, that their part in it is preaching the gospel, and the belief is an act of grace in them.

It's necessary for people to understand who their savior is so that they understand who they are believing in. Don't take for granted that when you say "Believe in Jesus Christ" that the casual listener has any idea who we are talking about. I've talked to plenty of people, especially young people, who nowadays haven't even heard of Jesus (the) Christ. Believing Jesus is the Messiah and Son of God are required points of the gospel. It isn't as though you just randomly confront someone with "Do you confess Jesus is Lord and believe God raised him from the dead?" with no prior introduction into their background.

John 3:16,17 is a good starting point. God sent His Son to save the world through Jesus. Adding anything along the lines of "Jesus is God" only muddies the waters and is misleading about what the gospel really requires someone to believe.

I have never been in a Unitarian church, but if forums are any example, I would guess they spend a great deal of time indoctrinating with Jesus NOT being God. And pull out all those proof texts everyone of them uses on forums, to do so. I would guess there is a great deal of training on how to counter the Trinity and how to debate a Trinitarian on the subject. IOW one of the primary purposes of the Unitarian denomination is an effort in destruction of traditional/orthodox Christianity.

Unitarians don't talk about that sort of thing with each other since it isn't necessary. They would typically talk about how to live Christ-like and bring glory to God. The reason that particular subject comes up on Bible discussion forums is because these kind of forums usually have a high number of Trinitarians so the elephant in the room must be addressed. I really genuinely and sincerely want people to have a chance to make an informed decision if worshipping a man as though he is God is idolatry or not. At the end of the day, the Son of Man is still the Son of God without any distinction between the two and he is a resurrected man in heaven because God raised him from the dead. Jesus prayed to God in reverence asking for Him to save him.

Hebrews 5
7During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence.

 

[Fred]

I would personally be interested in reading One God & One Lord by John W. Schoenheit because I am familiar with his commentaries.

Another Unitarian who teaches that Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Another Unitarian who teaches that Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer.

Where's your proof?

 

[Fred]

Where's your proof?

Appendix 13: Can We Pray to Jesus?
https://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Appendix/13/bb

See also the comments in 1 Corinthians 1:2 as seen here:
https://www.revisedenglishversion.com/commentary/1-Corinthians/1

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Appendix 13: Can We Pray to Jesus?
https://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Appendix/13/bb

See also the comments in 1 Corinthians 1:2 as seen here:
https://www.revisedenglishversion.com/commentary/1-Corinthians/1

Did Runningman say Unitarians cannot pray to Jesus? I seem to recall he said the Bible says nobody prayed to Jesus.