What does "Deity of Christ" mean?

[Fred]

Did Runningman say Unitarians cannot pray to Jesus? I seem to recall he said the Bible says nobody prayed to Jesus.

Not sure if he specifically said for them not to, but he did affirm that it is a "false doctrine" that Jesus is prayed to in Acts 1:24.
https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/what-does-deity-of-christ-mean.1450/page-4#post-59656
John Schoenheit affirms Jesus is prayed to there:
“You, Lord.” The evidence shows that this prayer is to Jesus, not to the Father.
https://www.revisedenglishversion.com/comm/Acts/1/nav24

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

Not sure if he specifically said for them not to, but he did affirm that it is a "false doctrine" that Jesus is prayed to in Acts 1:24.
https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/what-does-deity-of-christ-mean.1450/page-4#post-59656
John Schoenheit affirms Jesus is prayed to there:
“You, Lord.” The evidence shows that this prayer is to Jesus, not to the Father.
https://www.revisedenglishversion.com/comm/Acts/1/nav24

Your link doesn't link to Acts 1:24

 

[Fred]

Your link doesn't link to Acts 1:24

It links to Schoenheit's commentary of Acts 1:24.

For Runningman, go to post 73
https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/what-does-deity-of-christ-mean.1450/page-4#post-59651

 

[Runningman]

Another Unitarian who teaches that Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer.

I disagree with him on the grounds Jesus didn't teach that and there aren't any clear examples of that in the Bible.

 

[Runningman]

Did Runningman say Unitarians cannot pray to Jesus? I seem to recall he said the Bible says nobody prayed to Jesus.

On that particular point there are mixed opinions. There are some who believe in the literal pre-existence of Jesus while there are others who don't.

 

[Fred]

I disagree with him on the grounds Jesus didn't teach that and there aren't any clear examples of that in the Bible.

It would be interesting to see a Unitarian debate concerning this topic.

 

[CherubRam]

Another Unitarian who teaches that Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer.

Matthew 6:9
“This is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, holy is your name,

John 5:41
“I do not accept (glory / praise / worship) from human beings,

 

[Fred]

John 5:41
“I do not accept (glory / praise / worship) from human beings,

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/the-name-of-the-holy-spirit.467/page-2#post-30369

 

[Runningman]

Matthew 6:9
“This is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, holy is your name,

John 5:41
“I do not accept (glory / praise / worship) from human beings,

Yeah there are some Unitarians who will say Jesus can be prayed to, but nevertheless Jesus simply instructed his followers to only pray to the Father. One isn’t wrong for obeying Jesus on his explicit teachings in Matt 6:6,9.

John 5:41 is a good verse.

 

[makesends]

Yeah there are some Unitarians who will say Jesus can be prayed to, but nevertheless Jesus simply instructed his followers to only pray to the Father. One isn’t wrong for obeying Jesus on his explicit teachings in Matt 6:6,9.

John 5:41 is a good verse.

Matthew 6:9
“This is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, holy is your name,

John 5:41
“I do not accept (glory / praise / worship) from human beings,

This is the first I recall hearing anyone use John 5:41 for such a use. Not that there aren't any, but I've never even seen a commentary to use the language, "I do not receive glory from man," to mean that the Son of God does not accept prayer nor worship. That's not even what it says.

While I don't like paraphrases, here they do give a good sense of what he was saying, in context: "I am not looking for human praise." (Good News Translation) ; "I do not receive glory and approval from men" (Amplified Bible) Read the context.

Take a look at the link here, on right side of the page, for cross references (yes, applicable from THEIR point-of-view, which is not authoritative, but it does show that your use of the verse is an outlier, opposing consensus).

https://biblehub.com/john/5-41.htm

 

[Mr GLee]

Like the Sun Moon and Stars. God is the source of glory refers to us as children of light reflect the glory of the Holy Father . Remember God is light and not that he can only create it temporarily under the Sun.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

 

[Fred]

Yeah there are some Unitarians who will say Jesus can be prayed to, but nevertheless Jesus simply instructed his followers to only pray to the Father.

You said "only".

Jesus didn't.

 

[Runningman]

You said "only".

Jesus didn't.

In Matt 6:6,9 Jesus prescribed prayer to the Father because the Father is God. Since Jesus didn't mention anyone else, then the word only is necessitated in the context.

Going past verse 9, Jesus instructed on fasting. Jesus said to fast only to the Father. Fasting to Jesus is also not a Biblical doctrine. Wow... you catching on yet?

16When you fast, do not be somber like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward. 17But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18so that your fasting will not be obvious to men, but only to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

 

[Runningman]

This is the first I recall hearing anyone use John 5:41 for such a use. Not that there aren't any, but I've never even seen a commentary to use the language, "I do not receive glory from man," to mean that the Son of God does not accept prayer nor worship. That's not even what it says.

While I don't like paraphrases, here they do give a good sense of what he was saying, in context: "I am not looking for human praise." (Good News Translation) ; "I do not receive glory and approval from men" (Amplified Bible) Read the context.

Take a look at the link here, on right side of the page, for cross references (yes, applicable from THEIR point-of-view, which is not authoritative, but it does show that your use of the verse is an outlier, opposing consensus).

https://biblehub.com/john/5-41.htm

Since Jesus doesn't except glory (praise and honor) from men, but God does, then that isn't something one would pray to Jesus about. Jesus' teachings about praying to God the Father are incompatible with himself being the proper recipient of prayer.

 

[Fred]

the word only is necessitated in the context.

No, it isn't because Jesus affirmed that He is the proper recipient of prayer in John 14:14.

https://christcentered.community.fo...-to-once-in-the-bible.1479/page-19#post-62373

 

[Runningman]

No, it isn't because Jesus affirmed that He is the proper recipient of prayer in John 14:14.

https://christcentered.community.fo...-to-once-in-the-bible.1479/page-19#post-62373

I knew you would totally dodge the entire comment, disagree, and change the topic. Predictable. When you actually want to have an intellectually honest discussion I am here.

 

[Fred]

I knew you would totally dodge the entire comment

That's what you did - and continue to do.

All of the teaching about prayer by Jesus is not ONLY found in Matthew 6.

 

[Mr GLee]

No, it isn't because Jesus affirmed that He is the proper recipient of prayer in John 14:14.

https://christcentered.community.fo...-to-once-in-the-bible.1479/page-19#post-62373

I would say look to the context no cherry picking The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself. Or your thoughts are not my thoughts just as your ways are not mine

( Jesus )
(God)

Jesus the Son of man sent as a messenger an apostle send with prophecy the living abiding word of the unseen Holy Father not his own thoughts

John 14:10-14 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Not in the name of the Son dying mankind

 

[Fred]

I would say look to the context

Which doesn't contradict prayers to Jesus as taught in John 14:14. Your ransom note response ignores this fact.

 

[CherubRam]

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/the-name-of-the-holy-spirit.467/page-2#post-30369

Yahwah says:
Psalm 91:14
Because he loves me, I will rescue him; I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.

2 Timothy 4:18
(The Lord / Yahwah) will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom. To (him / Yahwah) be glory for ever and ever. Amen.