That is one view that could very well be true in a futuristic view of premillennialism. The interest in aliens of the public is increasing quite a bit. If you are interested in a balanced view from a Christian perspective, look into Gary Bates work on the subject of aliens. It is a real eye-opener. He wrote a book entitled Alien Intrusion. It links aliens to demonology. Could explain where the message of aliens coming and taking the Christians would come from. Deception. The message of the aliens, from whatever planet they come from this week, is brotherhood and, get this, the salvation of mankind.
Tribulation Outtakes
- Thread starter Odë:hgöd
- Start date
Odë:hgöd
Well Known Member
.
● Rev 13:7-8 . . And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to
overcome them; and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and
nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not
written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Because we're talking about all kindreds, and tongues, and nations; then I think we
may safely assume that the "saints" in this case are possibly anyone and everybody
that can be counted as loyal to God; both Jew and Gentile. This may or may not
refer to armed conflict but for sure it's related to oppression; and it's going to be
very effective if we reckon these saints to be the innumerable crowd depicted at
Rev 7:9-17.
The Beast's management practices are extreme, but not all that unusual. Take for
example modern communist China. It's very dangerous to be openly religious in
that country, and/or hold values that differ with the regime's, where they harvest
the organs of Falun Gong adherents without their consent. The situation in North
Korea is little better where God is second place to Kim Jong-Un.
* The Lamb slain "from the foundation of the world" reveals that Jesus wasn't a
stand-by paramedic sent to an unexpected train wreck, rather; he was designated,
and scheduled, to die on a cross for the sins of the world prior to God creating even
a single atom for the current cosmos. In other words; the cross was anticipated.
(cf.1Pet 1:18-21)
_
● Rev 13:7-8 . . And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to
overcome them; and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and
nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not
written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Because we're talking about all kindreds, and tongues, and nations; then I think we
may safely assume that the "saints" in this case are possibly anyone and everybody
that can be counted as loyal to God; both Jew and Gentile. This may or may not
refer to armed conflict but for sure it's related to oppression; and it's going to be
very effective if we reckon these saints to be the innumerable crowd depicted at
Rev 7:9-17.
The Beast's management practices are extreme, but not all that unusual. Take for
example modern communist China. It's very dangerous to be openly religious in
that country, and/or hold values that differ with the regime's, where they harvest
the organs of Falun Gong adherents without their consent. The situation in North
Korea is little better where God is second place to Kim Jong-Un.
* The Lamb slain "from the foundation of the world" reveals that Jesus wasn't a
stand-by paramedic sent to an unexpected train wreck, rather; he was designated,
and scheduled, to die on a cross for the sins of the world prior to God creating even
a single atom for the current cosmos. In other words; the cross was anticipated.
(cf.1Pet 1:18-21)
_
Odë:hgöd
Well Known Member
.
● Rev 13:8 . . All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast-- all whose names
have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from
the world.
Everything is a foregone conclusion with God; nothing surprises Him. God foresaw
the forbidden fruit incident, He foresaw Cain and Abel, He foresaw the Flood, He
foresaw the Tower of Babel, He foresaw Sodom and Gomorrah, He foresaw the
Holocaust, He foresaw all the folks who won't bow to the Beast, and He has seen
the Lake of Fire and the end of the world as we know it.
There are no new believers to God. He's already foreseen every one of them back
at the very beginning just as He's seen everything else ahead of time before it
comes to pass. Ergo: if somebody's name isn't already in the lamb's book of life,
then their name will never be in there because the book is closed; it's finished.
● Eph 1:3-5 . . Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has
blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For He
chose us in him before the creation of the world . . . in love He predestined us to be
adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will.
_
● Rev 13:8 . . All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast-- all whose names
have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from
the world.
Everything is a foregone conclusion with God; nothing surprises Him. God foresaw
the forbidden fruit incident, He foresaw Cain and Abel, He foresaw the Flood, He
foresaw the Tower of Babel, He foresaw Sodom and Gomorrah, He foresaw the
Holocaust, He foresaw all the folks who won't bow to the Beast, and He has seen
the Lake of Fire and the end of the world as we know it.
There are no new believers to God. He's already foreseen every one of them back
at the very beginning just as He's seen everything else ahead of time before it
comes to pass. Ergo: if somebody's name isn't already in the lamb's book of life,
then their name will never be in there because the book is closed; it's finished.
● Eph 1:3-5 . . Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has
blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For He
chose us in him before the creation of the world . . . in love He predestined us to be
adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will.
_
Odë:hgöd
Well Known Member
.
● Rev 13:9 . . He who has an ear, let him hear.
This particular ear refers to paying serious attention rather than merely auditory
perception. For example:
● Deut 29:2-5 . . Moses summoned all the Israelites and said to them:
. . .Your eyes have seen all that The Lord did in Egypt to Pharaoh, to all his officials
and to all his land. With your own eyes you saw those great trials, those miraculous
signs and great wonders. But to this day The Lord has not given you a mind that
understands or eyes that see or ears that hear.
In other words: Moses' people were attentive to God's providence; and at times
even took it for granted, but were indifferent to His counseling— oftentimes His
words went in one ear and right out the other, so to speak. Samuel was just the
opposite.
● 1Sam 3:20 . . And Samuel grew, and The Lord was with him, and did let none of
His words fall to the ground.
During the awful circumstances depicted and described in the book of Revelation,
quite a few folks are going to wake up and begin looking to the Bible for answers.
I'm guessing it will be difficult, and dangerous, trying to locate copies as I suspect
the Beast will initiate something similar to Mao Zedong's cultural revolution and/or
Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 to eradicate competing ideologies.
Nevertheless; just as certain agencies at the Federal level have failed to totally
suppress so-called misinformation relative to the Covid thingy, so the Beast will fail
to prevent every last ear from hearing.
_
● Rev 13:9 . . He who has an ear, let him hear.
This particular ear refers to paying serious attention rather than merely auditory
perception. For example:
● Deut 29:2-5 . . Moses summoned all the Israelites and said to them:
. . .Your eyes have seen all that The Lord did in Egypt to Pharaoh, to all his officials
and to all his land. With your own eyes you saw those great trials, those miraculous
signs and great wonders. But to this day The Lord has not given you a mind that
understands or eyes that see or ears that hear.
In other words: Moses' people were attentive to God's providence; and at times
even took it for granted, but were indifferent to His counseling— oftentimes His
words went in one ear and right out the other, so to speak. Samuel was just the
opposite.
● 1Sam 3:20 . . And Samuel grew, and The Lord was with him, and did let none of
His words fall to the ground.
During the awful circumstances depicted and described in the book of Revelation,
quite a few folks are going to wake up and begin looking to the Bible for answers.
I'm guessing it will be difficult, and dangerous, trying to locate copies as I suspect
the Beast will initiate something similar to Mao Zedong's cultural revolution and/or
Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 to eradicate competing ideologies.
Nevertheless; just as certain agencies at the Federal level have failed to totally
suppress so-called misinformation relative to the Covid thingy, so the Beast will fail
to prevent every last ear from hearing.
_
Odë:hgöd
Well Known Member
.
● Rev 13:9-10 . . If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone
kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and
the faith of the saints.
I think that just might be a reiteration of the perseverance and the faith of Job;
where it's said:
"In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing." (Job 1:22)
"Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him" (Job 13:15
That of the prophet Habakkuk:
"Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labor
of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off
from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls: Yet I will rejoice in The Lord,
I will joy in the God of my salvation." (Hab 3:17-18)
And that of the apostle Paul:
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or
persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: For your
sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
(Rom 8:35-36)
It's generally agreed among conservative Christians that no saved person will enter
the Tribulation; but there will be a large number of lost souls saved out of it;
though at great cost to their welfare. They mustn't allow their misfortunes during
that era to persuade them that they've bought into a fraud.
* Believers are not a protected species; nor are they insulated from the slings and
arrows of outrageous fortune.
When there's a pandemic, they get sick the same as everybody else. When there's
war, they get caught up in it. When there are economic catastrophes like the Great
Depression and the housing bubble of 2008, they lose their jobs and sometimes
their nest eggs. When there are shortages of goods and services, they have to
make do with what there is the same as everybody else. When the weather
becomes disagreeable with tornadoes, hurricanes, and flooding, they lose their
homes right along with non believers. Wild fires in California burn the homes of
believers the same as everybody else's homes. Believers get cancer, they get in car
wrecks, they get taken by crime, nature drops tree limbs on them, and the
postman delivers their mail to the wrong address, etc. etc. etc.
"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you
will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." (John 16:33)
When peace like a river attendeth my way,
When sorrows like sea billows roll;
Whatever my lot, thou has taught me to say:
It is well, it is well, with my soul.
(Horatio P. Spafford, 1828-1888)
_
● Rev 13:9-10 . . If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone
kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and
the faith of the saints.
I think that just might be a reiteration of the perseverance and the faith of Job;
where it's said:
"In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing." (Job 1:22)
"Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him" (Job 13:15
That of the prophet Habakkuk:
"Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labor
of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off
from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls: Yet I will rejoice in The Lord,
I will joy in the God of my salvation." (Hab 3:17-18)
And that of the apostle Paul:
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or
persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: For your
sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
(Rom 8:35-36)
It's generally agreed among conservative Christians that no saved person will enter
the Tribulation; but there will be a large number of lost souls saved out of it;
though at great cost to their welfare. They mustn't allow their misfortunes during
that era to persuade them that they've bought into a fraud.
* Believers are not a protected species; nor are they insulated from the slings and
arrows of outrageous fortune.
When there's a pandemic, they get sick the same as everybody else. When there's
war, they get caught up in it. When there are economic catastrophes like the Great
Depression and the housing bubble of 2008, they lose their jobs and sometimes
their nest eggs. When there are shortages of goods and services, they have to
make do with what there is the same as everybody else. When the weather
becomes disagreeable with tornadoes, hurricanes, and flooding, they lose their
homes right along with non believers. Wild fires in California burn the homes of
believers the same as everybody else's homes. Believers get cancer, they get in car
wrecks, they get taken by crime, nature drops tree limbs on them, and the
postman delivers their mail to the wrong address, etc. etc. etc.
"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you
will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." (John 16:33)
When peace like a river attendeth my way,
When sorrows like sea billows roll;
Whatever my lot, thou has taught me to say:
It is well, it is well, with my soul.
(Horatio P. Spafford, 1828-1888)
_
Odë:hgöd
Well Known Member
.
● Rev 13:11 . . .Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two
horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon.
This particular beast will be, from all appearances, a seemingly harmless individual,
viz: he won't have the look of a menace.
For example; German SS officer Heinrich Luitpold Himmler had the look of a classic
Mr. Milquetoast; but underneath that facade was an unbelievable capacity for
cruelty, subterfuge, and murder on a grand scale. In other words: you couldn't tell
at first glance that Himmler was a monster in whose opinion human lives are
inconvenient.
_
● Rev 13:11 . . .Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two
horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon.
This particular beast will be, from all appearances, a seemingly harmless individual,
viz: he won't have the look of a menace.
For example; German SS officer Heinrich Luitpold Himmler had the look of a classic
Mr. Milquetoast; but underneath that facade was an unbelievable capacity for
cruelty, subterfuge, and murder on a grand scale. In other words: you couldn't tell
at first glance that Himmler was a monster in whose opinion human lives are
inconvenient.
_
Odë:hgöd
Well Known Member
.
● Rev 13:11-17 . . .Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth . . . and he
performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from
heaven to earth in full view of men . . . he deceived the inhabitants of the earth and
ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast . . . He was given power to
give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who
refused to worship the image to be executed.
The dimensions of the image aren't given but I should think it will be large enough
to be imposing.
For example: side by side statues of former North Korean leaders Kim IL Sung and
Kim Jong-IL, located on Mansu Hill in Pyongyang, are 22 meters (72+ feet) tall. If
one of those statues ever came to life, it would make quite an impression because
something that big would be very difficult to fake for even a top-notch magician like
David Copperfield.
* The Greek word translated "beast" refers to dangerous animals as opposed to
peaceful critters like goats, sheep, prairie dogs, and squeaky little gerbils.
_
● Rev 13:11-17 . . .Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth . . . and he
performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from
heaven to earth in full view of men . . . he deceived the inhabitants of the earth and
ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast . . . He was given power to
give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who
refused to worship the image to be executed.
The dimensions of the image aren't given but I should think it will be large enough
to be imposing.
For example: side by side statues of former North Korean leaders Kim IL Sung and
Kim Jong-IL, located on Mansu Hill in Pyongyang, are 22 meters (72+ feet) tall. If
one of those statues ever came to life, it would make quite an impression because
something that big would be very difficult to fake for even a top-notch magician like
David Copperfield.
* The Greek word translated "beast" refers to dangerous animals as opposed to
peaceful critters like goats, sheep, prairie dogs, and squeaky little gerbils.
_
Odë:hgöd
Well Known Member
.
● Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the
everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every
nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, announcing with a loud voice: Fear
God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come: and worship Him
that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
The everlasting gospel is a bounce from the very first chapter of Genesis; and
reiterated at Ps 19:1-4 and Rom 1:19-20. It's very elementary; pretty much all it
says is:
1) There's a supreme being.
2) People should not take Him lightly.
3) He deserves to be revered, honored, and respected.
4) There's a reckoning looming on the horizon.
5) The cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the result of
intelligent design.
_
● Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the
everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every
nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, announcing with a loud voice: Fear
God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come: and worship Him
that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
The everlasting gospel is a bounce from the very first chapter of Genesis; and
reiterated at Ps 19:1-4 and Rom 1:19-20. It's very elementary; pretty much all it
says is:
1) There's a supreme being.
2) People should not take Him lightly.
3) He deserves to be revered, honored, and respected.
4) There's a reckoning looming on the horizon.
5) The cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the result of
intelligent design.
_
Odë:hgöd
Well Known Member
.
● Rev 14:9-12 . . A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: If anyone
worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the
hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full
strength into the cup of his wrath.
. . . He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and
of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. There is no
rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who
receives the mark of his name.
The holy city depicted at Rev 21:9-27 will never experience nightfall nor darkness.
On the basis of that, some have proposed that Rev 14:9-12 is entirely symbolic
because it says that the folks assigned to the burning sulfur will be given no rest
day or night in a place where supposedly there will be no night.
However "in the presence of" doesn't necessarily mean the site of the burning
sulfur is located inside the city's walls, mostly because Rev 21:27 says: "Nothing
impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful,
but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life." And also Rev
22:14-15 which says: "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have
the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are
the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the
idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."
Though there will be neither day nor night inside the city that doesn't preclude the
possibility that there will be day and night outside. At any rate; I think we have to
expect there will be no breaks in the torment but that it will be perpetual 24/7/365
with neither intermission, nor interruption, nor time off for good behavior. That will
be an awful scene; quite possibly a rather ghastly tourist attraction. (Isa 66:23-24)
● Rev 14:12 . .This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey
God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
People will find themselves caught in a sort of Catch 22, so to speak. If they follow
the Beast, they'll be safe from execution but end up in the sulfur. If they follow God
and His son Jesus, they'll be safe from the sulfur but end up executed.
● Rev 14:13 . . .Then I heard a voice from heaven say: "Write: Blessed are the
dead who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they will rest from their
labor, for their deeds will follow them."
One of the deeds sure to follow those folks is their decision to remain true to God
and His son Jesus instead of following the Beast. (cf. Matt 10:22)
_
● Rev 14:9-12 . . A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: If anyone
worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the
hand, he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full
strength into the cup of his wrath.
. . . He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and
of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. There is no
rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who
receives the mark of his name.
The holy city depicted at Rev 21:9-27 will never experience nightfall nor darkness.
On the basis of that, some have proposed that Rev 14:9-12 is entirely symbolic
because it says that the folks assigned to the burning sulfur will be given no rest
day or night in a place where supposedly there will be no night.
However "in the presence of" doesn't necessarily mean the site of the burning
sulfur is located inside the city's walls, mostly because Rev 21:27 says: "Nothing
impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful,
but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life." And also Rev
22:14-15 which says: "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have
the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are
the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the
idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."
Though there will be neither day nor night inside the city that doesn't preclude the
possibility that there will be day and night outside. At any rate; I think we have to
expect there will be no breaks in the torment but that it will be perpetual 24/7/365
with neither intermission, nor interruption, nor time off for good behavior. That will
be an awful scene; quite possibly a rather ghastly tourist attraction. (Isa 66:23-24)
● Rev 14:12 . .This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey
God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
People will find themselves caught in a sort of Catch 22, so to speak. If they follow
the Beast, they'll be safe from execution but end up in the sulfur. If they follow God
and His son Jesus, they'll be safe from the sulfur but end up executed.
● Rev 14:13 . . .Then I heard a voice from heaven say: "Write: Blessed are the
dead who die in the Lord from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, they will rest from their
labor, for their deeds will follow them."
One of the deeds sure to follow those folks is their decision to remain true to God
and His son Jesus instead of following the Beast. (cf. Matt 10:22)
_
Odë:hgöd
Well Known Member
.
● Rev 16:3 . .The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned into
blood like that of a dead man, and every living thing in the sea died.
Fresh blood is tolerable as far as odor goes, whereas the blood of a dead man is in
a state of putrefaction; and then adding to that the carcasses and the stench of
dead fish, and everything else, will make for quite a chowder to behold.
The Mediterranean is notable in the Bible; but whether that's the sea spoken of
here is uncertain. However, in Gen 1:10 "sea" pertains to the entirety of Earth's
oceans.
A rather curious sea is located at 1Kings 7:23-26 which suggests that any
accumulation of water, whether in an ocean or on land, can be called a sea, e.g.
ponds and lakes.
● Rev 16:4 . .The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of
water, and they became blood.
The two passages tell of water pollution on a scale quite a bit more severe than that
of Egypt because this is global rather than limited to one specific country. Even so;
Egypt's was pretty bad because there was no clean water anywhere for either
cooking, drinking, laundry, hygiene, or sanitation. (Ex 7:19-20)
_
● Rev 16:3 . .The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned into
blood like that of a dead man, and every living thing in the sea died.
Fresh blood is tolerable as far as odor goes, whereas the blood of a dead man is in
a state of putrefaction; and then adding to that the carcasses and the stench of
dead fish, and everything else, will make for quite a chowder to behold.
The Mediterranean is notable in the Bible; but whether that's the sea spoken of
here is uncertain. However, in Gen 1:10 "sea" pertains to the entirety of Earth's
oceans.
A rather curious sea is located at 1Kings 7:23-26 which suggests that any
accumulation of water, whether in an ocean or on land, can be called a sea, e.g.
ponds and lakes.
● Rev 16:4 . .The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of
water, and they became blood.
The two passages tell of water pollution on a scale quite a bit more severe than that
of Egypt because this is global rather than limited to one specific country. Even so;
Egypt's was pretty bad because there was no clean water anywhere for either
cooking, drinking, laundry, hygiene, or sanitation. (Ex 7:19-20)
_
Josheb
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Hmmm...
The Greek word "tachei" is best translated as "quickly," not "shortly." The KJV, in particular, is very inconsistent with this; it translates the exact same term in numerous ways throughout the New Testament. The term "tachei" is, in fact, related to time but it is not specifically about the length of time; it is about the rapidness with which time related to the event passes.
Huge difference.
The word that qualifies and quantifies the amount of time is verse 3's "engys" which transliterally means "at hand," and is best translated as "near." That's how nearly every English translation apart from the KJV translates it. Here, again, it is the KJV that is most often inconsistent with translating the word, variably translating engys as "at hand," "near," "nigh," or even "nigh at hand." Everyone else is much mre consistent an with few exceptions uniformly translates the "engys" as "near."
The word "near" means near, and more specifically, near in either time or space. This is the ordinary meaning of the word in normal, everyday usage, and not one of the 30 uses of the word in the New Testament ever means anything different than that definition.
Josheb
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Mashing Jesus' comments about no one knowing the day or hour from Matthew 24 into Revelation 1 without further explanation is bad practice. It's also exegetically faulty.
Jesus DID say no one would know the day or the hour BUT he ALSO explicitly stated the events described in that chapter would happen in "this generation" and the Greek is conjugated in the near-demonstrative. Taken together, what Jesus plainly said was that the events described would happen in the generation of his then-current audience, but no one would know the exact day or hour at that time. They would know when the day and hour at the time of their occurrence, however, because Jesus sitting there telling them what to look for!!!!!
Preparing for events that have already come and long ago passed as if they haven't is not only gross disbelief and mistrust; it is also foolishness.
The book of Revelation was written centuries ago and it opens and closes with the exact same temporal qualifications: the events described will happen quickly because the time is near. They happened quicky because the time for them to occur was near - near to the time when the revelation was revealed. That was part of the revelation. That is what was revealed to servants of Christ living in the first century.
Read it as written.
Josheb
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- Conservative
But it is not.
Odë:hgöd
Well Known Member
.
● Rev 16:8-11 . .Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, causing it to
scorch everyone with its fire. Everyone was burned by this blast of heat, and they
cursed the name of God, who sent all of these plagues. They did not repent and
give him glory.
. . .Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his
kingdom was plunged into darkness. And his subjects ground their teeth in anguish,
and they cursed the God of heaven for their pains and sores. But they refused to
repent of all their evil deeds.
Pharaoh stiffened his resolve during those miraculous events in the book of Exodus,
but to my knowledge he never once cursed God. Well these folks in Revelation
show just how hostile and militant the human heart can really get in its resistance
to God's demands. Pretty amazing.
_
● Rev 16:8-11 . .Then the fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, causing it to
scorch everyone with its fire. Everyone was burned by this blast of heat, and they
cursed the name of God, who sent all of these plagues. They did not repent and
give him glory.
. . .Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his
kingdom was plunged into darkness. And his subjects ground their teeth in anguish,
and they cursed the God of heaven for their pains and sores. But they refused to
repent of all their evil deeds.
Pharaoh stiffened his resolve during those miraculous events in the book of Exodus,
but to my knowledge he never once cursed God. Well these folks in Revelation
show just how hostile and militant the human heart can really get in its resistance
to God's demands. Pretty amazing.
_
Rev. Man Ron
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You can't add them in that manner. The Seals only open up God's Wrath, Jesus prophesies what God's Wrath will bring, once the 7th seal is taken off, that is why the 7th seal is over in Rev. 8. The Anti-Christ will kill a fourth of mankind but only in the region he controls, the E.U. and the Mediterranean Sea Region. The Four Angles are bound to a day, month year, in the region of the Euphrates, God doesn't bind his Angels in a river. They kill 1/3 of those with the Mark of the Beast. So, all of these external factors have to be factored in.
Rev. Man Ron
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The word does not mean SHORTLY, it means in a short time span, it means QUICKLY, SPEEDILY, or IN HASTE.
I studied this in depth. Lets loo at my Greek/English Massoretic Hebrew on-line bible
Revelation 1:1 (1611)
The Reuelation 602 of Iesus 2424 Christ, 5547 which 3739 God 2316 gaue 1325 z5656 vnto him, 846 to shewe 1166 z5658 vnto his y846 x848 seruants 1401 things which 3739 must 1163 z5748 shortly 1722 5034 come to passe; 1096 z5635 and 2532 he sent 649 z5660 and signified 4591 z5656 [it] by 1223 his y846 x848 Angel 32 vnto his y846 x848 seruant 1401 Iohn, 2491
Notice the two numbers behind SHORTLY ? Lets look up the number meanings, one is an English word that tells us our speed !!
1722 = EN
#1722 ἐν en {en}
a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state)
—Greek Word Study —Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)
5034 = TACHOS
#5034 τάχος tachos {takh'-os}
from the same as G5036; TDNT - n/a; n n
—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) quickness, speed
—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722 prefixed) in haste:— + quickly, + shortly, + speedily.
—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)
So, the Greek word TACHOS is where we get our English word tachometer from, thus Rev. 1:1 never stated Jesus was coming back SHORTLY or SOON, but in a short time burst, as soon as the Father tells Jesus to return at that future point time(EN), only the Father knows, and when given that command Jesus will return, IN HASTE, or SPEEDILY, or very QIUCKLY, or SHORTLY meaning in a short time frame. The Old English was a tad different, Gay meant happy and jolly, words evolve. Shortly, as seen above via the way it was used, means the same thing as in haste, speedily and quickly.
And I have seen many people who are preterists because of single verses like this. Sad really, we are to study to show ourselves approved.
Odë:hgöd
Well Known Member
.
● Rev 16:12 . . And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river
Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the
east might be prepared.
That is curious because in modern warfare; rivers, and even oceans, present no
obstacle to military aircraft. But where are the airplanes in Revelation; and where
are all the mechanized conveyances? Well; there are none, and in point of fact, war
in Revelation is portrayed as fought on horseback and armies move on foot.
I have an uneasy feeling that the way of life with which us modern folks are
accustomed is coming to an end primarily because oil isn't a renewable resource,
and the Earth's supply is being used up at an alarming rate; something like 95
million barrels every 24 hours; approximately 34.68 trillion barrels per annum--
and the demand isn't static: it's increasing.
For example: global demand for oil in 1960 was 21.4 million barrels per day. Today
it's 4.5x that amount whereas projections indicate global demand will be 5x that of
1960 by 2035.
_
● Rev 16:12 . . And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river
Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the
east might be prepared.
That is curious because in modern warfare; rivers, and even oceans, present no
obstacle to military aircraft. But where are the airplanes in Revelation; and where
are all the mechanized conveyances? Well; there are none, and in point of fact, war
in Revelation is portrayed as fought on horseback and armies move on foot.
I have an uneasy feeling that the way of life with which us modern folks are
accustomed is coming to an end primarily because oil isn't a renewable resource,
and the Earth's supply is being used up at an alarming rate; something like 95
million barrels every 24 hours; approximately 34.68 trillion barrels per annum--
and the demand isn't static: it's increasing.
For example: global demand for oil in 1960 was 21.4 million barrels per day. Today
it's 4.5x that amount whereas projections indicate global demand will be 5x that of
1960 by 2035.
_
Rev. Man Ron
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The Euphrates River drying up is a metaphor, when people actually see this go down then they will get it.
So, God started hitting this wicked world (Babylon) with plagues starting in Rev. 8 (1/3 of the world burns) then in Rev. 9 via two woes killing 1/3 of everyone who took the Mark of the Beast is killed, so what are they doing? Well we are told they all hide in caves (like cowards) so how is God going to entice them to come out and come to Armageddon? Well, God STOPS THE PLAGUES after the Two-witnesses are killed, they are the ones announcing each plague. This is what really DRIES UP, not a river. If we read Vial #6 it proves this.
The Beast, False Prophet and Dragon all lie and thus entice the kings of the WHOLE WORLD to gather at Armageddon, thus when Jesus shows up he can wipe them out as a spectacle for all to see, by the presence of his coming. Modern armies can cross rivers an hour or two, or simply transport in helicopters. God stops hitting the cowards with His plagues, they then he brave, show their faces, and since the Two-witnesses are dead they get super happy, they think its over, but they realize for thus to never happen again they have to kill every last Jew alive, too bad, they are overtly ignorant of what is about to come.
Odë:hgöd
Well Known Member
.
● Rev 16:13-15 . . Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came
out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth
of the false prophet. They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and
they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the
great day of God Almighty.
. . . Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his
clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed.
There is much disagreement in our day as to signs indicating the extraction
described by 1Thess 4:16-17, but the events depicted in Revelation are neither
vague, typical, nor debatable. When all that stuff begins coming to pass, smart
ones will be on the lookout for a really big surprise.
● Matt 24:27 . . For just as the lightning comes from the east, and flashes even to
the west, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be.
WHAM; on scene, locked and loaded
_
● Rev 16:13-15 . . Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came
out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth
of the false prophet. They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and
they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the
great day of God Almighty.
. . . Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his
clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed.
There is much disagreement in our day as to signs indicating the extraction
described by 1Thess 4:16-17, but the events depicted in Revelation are neither
vague, typical, nor debatable. When all that stuff begins coming to pass, smart
ones will be on the lookout for a really big surprise.
● Matt 24:27 . . For just as the lightning comes from the east, and flashes even to
the west, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be.
WHAM; on scene, locked and loaded
_
Odë:hgöd
Well Known Member
.
Rev 16:17-18 predicts a global earthquake so powerful on the Richter scale that
cities all over the world will collapse at once.
Something like 2,829 lost their lives when the World Trade Center was demolished
by a terrorist attack in 2001. Well that was only a few acres of New York City. Just
imagine the body count when all of Manhattan comes down at once. along with
other major cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Mexico City, Paris, Moscow,
Beijing, Tokyo, et al. The carnage will be beyond belief; and a great many of the
dead will be infants and underage children.
_
Rev 16:17-18 predicts a global earthquake so powerful on the Richter scale that
cities all over the world will collapse at once.
Something like 2,829 lost their lives when the World Trade Center was demolished
by a terrorist attack in 2001. Well that was only a few acres of New York City. Just
imagine the body count when all of Manhattan comes down at once. along with
other major cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco, Mexico City, Paris, Moscow,
Beijing, Tokyo, et al. The carnage will be beyond belief; and a great many of the
dead will be infants and underage children.
_
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