Total Depravity

[ElectedbyHim]

Really ? I have been posting threads and on threads for decades, this has never occurred

As I said, I was "thinking"

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

In the Westminister Confession, the doctrine of Total Depravity (Total Inability) is stated as follows: Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation;

I agree, we can not do any good. or bear any fruit. that comes with being saved.

so as a natural man, being altogether averse from good, and dead in sin, is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself,

I also Agree. He can not convert himself. save himself. or do anything to pay for their sin debt and be restored to a relationship with God. God must do this. and he did

or to prepare himself thereunto.

Amen, We must be taught by God. I like how John ended his gospel. I wrote these things that by hearing them, you may have life.

Hearing the word gives us the ability to have life. But the HS must explain those words in a way we can understand them. It is God who prepairs us, and then we have to decide. are we going to trust God., or continue in unbelief, or close their eyes and close their ears. lest they be saved

Acts 28:27 — 27 For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.” ’

Agree, disagree?

 

[brightfame52]

@Eternally-Grateful

I agree, we can not do any good. or bear any fruit. that comes with being saved.

Faith/believing in Christ comes with being saved, its spiritual fruit.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

@Eternally-Grateful


Faith/believing in Christ comes with being saved, its spiritual fruit.

Um no,

If it was fruit. it would be something we produce

it would be us saving ourself.

Faith is a gift. as is salvation

 

[ElectedbyHim]

Um no,

If it was fruit. it would be something we produce

it would be us saving ourself.

Faith is a gift. as is salvation

Spiritual fruit (fruit of the Spirit Gal.5:22-23) is produced only through salvation ,it is the product of salvation.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Spiritual fruit (fruit of the Spirit Gal.5:22-23) is produced only through salvation ,it is the product of salvation.

Yes amen

so saving faith and receiving this gift salvation in faith is not a product of salvation.

 

[ElectedbyHim]

Yes amen

so saving faith and receiving this gift salvation in faith is not a product of salvation.

It is a product of regeneration, the new birth that only the Lord can give.

Cant believe or have faith without the new birth, it is not produced in man.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

It is a product of regeneration, the new birth that only the Lord can give.

Cant believe or have faith without the new birth, it is not produced in man.

Actually yes you can.

if you do not believe or receive his gift of justification. your still dead in your sin.

But your right, it is not a product of man. Our faith is in God not self.

 

[ReverendRV]

Actually yes you can.

if you do not believe or receive his gift of justification. your still dead in your sin.

But your right, it is not a product of man. Our faith is in God not self.

I may be wrong, but talk about a Christian receiving the Gift of God; Calvinists claim to receive it, right?

 

[ElectedbyHim]

Actually yes you can.

if you do not believe or receive his gift of justification. your still dead in your sin.

But your right, it is not a product of man. Our faith is in God not self.

Actually yes you can.

What do you mean by this??

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I may be wrong, but talk about a Christian receiving the Gift of God; Calvinists claim to receive it, right?

I believe so yes.

It appears the difference between myself and a Calvinists is when faith occurs.

I believe we trust God and receive THEN are justified and born again

They think we are born again. then faith comes then justification comes Although I think they believe it is instantaneous that all three happen. which in my mind I have to question how a person in a second understands the complexity of the gospel. is able to process it. and then able to trust it.. which out a period of time in between.

I could be wrong in thinking they believe it is instantaneous. I know I have been told this by some in another chatroom

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

What do you mean by this??

I can believe or have faith in what God has told me about himself before regeneration, because it is God teaching me, not me teaching myself

 

[ReverendRV]

I believe so yes.

It appears the difference between myself and a Calvinists is when faith occurs.

I believe we trust God and receive THEN are justified and born again

They think we are born again. then faith comes then justification comes Although I think they believe it is instantaneous that all three happen. which in my mind I have to question how a person in a second understands the complexity of the gospel. is able to process it. and then able to trust it.. which out a period of time in between.

I could be wrong in thinking they believe it is instantaneous. I know I have been told this by some in another chatroom

This is probably the difference between your view and their view of receiving the Gift of Faith/Justification; IE the Parable of the Sower...

The Good Soil is Regenerated/Tilled by the Farmer/God. It receives the Seed/Gospel, and produces a Crop. The Receiving here is Passive...

The Rocky and Weedy Soils receive the Gospel without being Tilled/Regenerated; they accept it of their own Volition. These Soils/People can only fail; because they haven't been Born Again. We can know this because the Trodden Soil recieves the Seed/Gospel; but it can't take the Gospel in of it's own Volition. - Christ will Lose none...


I'm thinking about starting a new Thread on another topic...

 

[ElectedbyHim]

I can believe or have faith in what God has told me about himself before regeneration, because it is God teaching me, not me teaching myself

Unregenerate want nothing to do with God, on the other hand, they make a god in their own image.

Many believe that they are Christians, but in reality they are self-deceived.

One day the Lord will say to them....

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matthew 7:22 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, in Your name did we not prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many miracles?’
Matthew 7:23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

 

[brightfame52]

Um no,

If it was fruit. it would be something we produce

it would be us saving ourself.

Faith is a gift. as is salvation

Yes it does, by Sanctification of the Spirit, that's Spiritual Salvation and brings belief of the Truth which is Faith 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Before this saving work by the Spirit, man is dead spiritually and totally depraved to spiritual things

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

This is probably the difference between your view and their view of receiving the Gift of Faith/Justification; IE the Parable of the Sower...

The Good Soil is Regenerated/Tilled by the Farmer/God. It receives the Seed/Gospel, and produces a Crop. The Receiving here is Passive...

The Rocky and Weedy Soils receive the Gospel without being Tilled/Regenerated; they accept it of their own Volition. These Soils/People can only fail; because they haven't been Born Again. We can know this because the Trodden Soil recieves the Seed/Gospel; but it can't take the Gospel in of it's own Volition. - Christ will Lose none...


I'm thinking about starting a new Thread on another topic...

Interesting perspective. thank you.

What I see is the one who had true saving faith. produced fruit (they were truly saved)

the other ones, while they claim to have believed. they never came to saving faith. They as I call it played church for awhile. but since their faith was in other things, they left.

these would be the people that "fall away" that those who believe we can lose salvation would se they lost their salvation.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Unregenerate want nothing to do with God, on the other hand, they make a god in their own image.

Many believe that they are Christians, but in reality they are self-deceived.

One day the Lord will say to them....

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matthew 7:22 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, in Your name did we not prophesy, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name do many miracles?’
Matthew 7:23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

Notice.

these people tried to get to God by works. These are not atheist's or people who made other gods having rejected the god of heaven.

They tried to get to heaven by the works they did.

so they believed in God. and wanted to be with God. they just thought they did it by their own deeds.

we call this legalism..

If an unregenerate does not repent and come to faith by Gods power. they are still unregenerate. still dead in sin, still lost.

 

[ReverendRV]

Interesting perspective. thank you.

What I see is the one who had true saving faith. produced fruit (they were truly saved)

the other ones, while they claim to have believed. they never came to saving faith. They as I call it played church for awhile. but since their faith was in other things, they left.

these would be the people that "fall away" that those who believe we can lose salvation would se they lost their salvation.

Let's talk about it for a little bit. Was the Rocky Soil Born Again?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes it does, by Sanctification of the Spirit, that's Spiritual Salvation and brings belief of the Truth which is Faith 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Before this saving work by the Spirit, man is dead spiritually and totally depraved to spiritual things

John 1, But as many as have recieved him, to THEM he gave the power to become sons of God

John 20:31 — 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
Life comes through faith. just as salvation comes through faith.

God is offering you a gift. will you receive it or not.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Let's talk about it for a little bit. Was the Rocky Soil Born Again?

Only one of the 4 was born again, the one which produced fruit. ie the last one.

so no. the rocky soil never had saving faith. hence they were never given eternal life