We can go around and round, but I did ask him to define how God's Grace effects the will. Go through our discussion. Anyway, is God's Grace effectual or not?
This is what I saw you ask below in italics. You asked
how does He silence and force. The answer is by grace. You did not ask to define how grace works and indeed, the very answer is in the question you now ask. The answer is by silencing and forcing the sin nature into submission so the will can be free of it's anti-God effects of the flesh. In this way the person is free (just as Adam was in the Garden pre-Fall) to respond to God of their own free will. This has all been stated from the very beginning of this thread.
You eluded to" God drawing sinners by silencing and forcing...". How so, I asked, and you reply with nothing
The only reason we could go round and round is because you never worded your question well or you don't comprehend what is being said in the first place. My money is on the latter.
Huh??? This is Semi-Pelagianism, you know that, right? God did create Adam & Eve upright and good, with a total Free-Will and ability to obey or disobey God. They fell into sin by their own free-will, and it's by this action to breach God's Covenant that sanctions were rendered upon them and all mankind. Sin affect every part of man, to his core, including his soul. There's no part of fallen man that is not affected by sin.
Only God is good and righteous inherently. Adam and Eve had no goodness or righteousness of their own. Their goodness came from God's declaration of His creation and their righteousness came by faith in the Lord's word (as it has always been and always will be). When they broke fidelity with the word of God they lost their righteousness and God could no longer declare them good. I did not describe Semi-Pelagianism. That teaches a cross between having no sin nature at all and being utterly depraved body and soul (post-Fall). Only God can create souls or destroy them. If He created the soul inherently depraved (and please keep in mind we are speaking of creating humans
post-Fall so don't hark back to how Adam and Eve were created) then He is guilty of creating sin. He cannot do that. I explained this in my post. God cannot create
anything inherently good or evil, this is why I said the soul is neutral, for only God can create souls. Our flesh comes from our parents.
We must learn good and evil. If there were no grace? Then the only thing we could learn is evil and our souls would become as corrupted as our flesh. But where sin abounds, grace abounds even more.
To redeem a ungodly sinner who is under condemnation, death and punishment. The whole person must be saved, not just the flesh, right? This is the reason why Grace is needed prior to everything, right?
The flesh is not saved. This was the point of what I said when explaining
@GeneZ comments that you asked about. We will be given a new/different body not simply an upgrade to this one. In contrast, if are are given a new/different soul we would no longer be who we are. We would be someone else. Our souls are the essence of who we are. It holds the basis for consciousness (of self and others), intellect, emotion and will. It is one thing to be transformed in our thinking, it is quite another thing to become someone else. He is the Saviour of our souls, not our bodies.
And before you say anything, trying to take what I said where I did not go, (pre-emptive strike on my part) ... Yes, the bodies we are in now are the bodies that are raised from the dead but they will be clothed with another type of substance, one made from the stuff of heaven rather than the stuff of earth.
