Through one man, sin entered the world.

[LeviR]

I agree. But translation is not as simple a job as to produce mere literal meaning. Notice that I had said, "AS some translations render it", by which I was indicating the use Paul intends of the word, "flesh". It is rather obvious, contextually, (though he does not, as far as I know, disallow that it is related to the actual material of our bodies), that he is speaking of one's sinful nature.

To suggest that sinful flesh is something other than sinful nature is not true. The sinful flesh is the nature(physis) of man.
It is the nature of all natural man, beginning at the creation of Adam to today.

This is so simple to understand if one just allows the scripture to speak.

Adam and Eve sinned because they were tempted by their own natural desires. They put God’s word aside and listened to the fleshly wants. It’s that simple.

And Jesus was tempted in the same way because he was of the natural flesh also.
But Jesus adhered to God’s word rather than anything his flesh might persuade him to do. Or anything anyone else would try to persuade him to do.

If he was not in this condition, he could not be said to overcome the world, and exhort his disciples to do the same.

There is no overcoming the world unless we be tempted by the things of the world. The lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life.

To say Jesus was not like us, is to rob him of his glory in overcoming the world.

 

[LeviR]

??? No good lived in Christ flesh???? How could no good live in God?

How does the Holy Spirit live in your no good flesh?

 

[CrowCross]

Adam and Eve sinned because they were tempted by their own natural desires. They put God’s word aside and listened to the fleshly wants. It’s that simple.

if Satan wasn't present in the garden..Adam and Eve would still have eaten from the tree?

 

[CrowCross]

How does the Holy Spirit live in your no good flesh?

I don't know if the bible goes that deep on the topic...but it does say christians are given the Holy Spirit...as well as gifts from the Holy Spirit.

 

[LeviR]

How does the Holy Spirit live in your no good flesh?

Some people reject the teaching of Paul. I don’t.

 

[JIM]

Flash and blood cannot enter the kingdom. Sinful flesh and blood definitely cannot enter. Transformed flesh and bone can enter.

Where did you read that? Certainly not in the Bible. It doesn't speak about any such transformed flesh and blood.

I really hope that you are not too disappointed when you find out that your life in heaven will be without a physical body of flesh and blood.

 

[LeviR]

if Satan wasn't present in the garden..Adam and Eve would still have eaten from the tree?

As I said before, the serpent inflamed what was already in Eve’s flesh. Sin, by the command, don’t eat it.
I had not known lust but by the command thou shall not desire it.

 

[LeviR]

I don't know if the bible goes that deep on the topic...but it does say christians are given the Holy Spirit...as well as gifts from the Holy Spirit.

Walk in the Spirit of truth and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.

 

[LeviR]

That's pretty doggone presumptuous. Really??? If someone disagrees with you they are disagreeing with the scriptures you use? I hope you're just being a bit over the top in your indignation. Get real —You are as capable as anyone else, to use scripture wrong.

You’re welcome to refute all the scripture I post that can not be refuted.

 

[LeviR]

Where did you read that? Certainly not in the Bible. It doesn't speak about any such transformed flesh and blood.

I really hope that you are not too disappointed when you find out that your life in heaven will be without a physical body of flesh and blood.

1Co 15:50 - Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

1Co 15:51 - Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—

1Co 15:52 - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Co 15:53 - For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1Co 15:54 - So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”[fn]

1Co 15:55 - “O Death, where is your sting?[fn]
O Hades, where is your victory?”[fn]

1Co 15:56 - The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

1Co 15:57 - But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Be a partake of the divine nature.

2Pe 1:4 - by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Believe it or not.

 

[Arial]

As I said before, the serpent inflamed what was already in Eve’s flesh. Sin, by the command, don’t eat it.

If it was already in Eve's flesh then God created her with it. Which you have claimed you do not say. You can't have it both ways.

I had not known lust but by the command thou shall not desire it.

You, Paul all of us, had the desire. What we didn't know until the command came is that the desire was sinful.

 

[LeviR]

If it was already in Eve's flesh then God created her with it. Which you have claimed you do not say. You can't have it both ways.

You, Paul all of us, had the desire. What we didn't know until the command came is that the desire was sinful.

1Co 15:56 - The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

The giving of the law gave sin in the flesh its strength

The law is made weak by the flesh.

 

[Arial]

Where did you read that? Certainly not in the Bible. It doesn't speak about any such transformed flesh and blood.

I really hope that you are not too disappointed when you find out that your life in heaven will be without a physical body of flesh and blood.

Why is it do you say, the Bible tells us it is our flesh and blood bodies that are resurrected? Why did Jesus make a point of having Thomas put his hands in the nail holes in His flesh and blood resurrected body? Why is that 1 Cor:51-53 tell us that it is our flesh and blood bodies that will be transformed from mortal to immortal, from corrupted to incorruptible?

 

[LeviR]

John wrote to Jewish believers and exhorted them not to deny that Jesus had come in the flesh. He said that if they denied Jesus was in the flesh it was to have a spirit of antichrist.
If we deny Jesus’ flesh was like ours and that he was tempted by it as we are, then it’s a spirit of antichrist.

 

[Arial]

1Co 15:56 - The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

The giving of the law gave sin in the flesh its strength

If it was already in Eve's flesh then God created her with it. Which you have claimed you do not say. You can't have it both ways.

You, Paul all of us, had the desire. What we didn't know until the command came is that the desire was sinful.

 

[Arial]

John wrote to Jewish believers and exhorted them not to deny that Jesus had come in the flesh. He said that if they denied Jesus was in the flesh it was to have a spirit of antichrist.
If we deny Jesus’ flesh was like ours and that he was tempted by it as we are, then it’s a spirit of antichrist.

Is someone denying that?

 

[LeviR]

Is someone denying that?

A person is tempted when they are drawn away and enticed by their own desires. This means we have desires of the flesh that can lead us to sin. These desires of the flesh are called sin in the flesh or sinful flesh.
If we deny Jesus had the same flesh, it is a spirit of antichrist. Because Jesus was tempted just as we are, yet he did not sin.

 

[Josheb]

I post a lot of scripture to prove my point.

And my response is you post a lot of selectively used and therefore misused scripture. Can you find a flaw in ANYTHING I have posted?

Please feel welcome to prove those scriptures wrong. See post #246 for starters.

I did. Post 246 fails to correctly discriminate between the pre-disobedient flesh and the post-disobedient flesh. Post 246 also attempts to take verses written about post-disobedient Christians and apply them to pre-disobedient Adam. Both practices are wrong. Both practices are a misuse of scripture. Just because scripture is quoted does not mean it is employed correctly. One of the ways an incorrect use of scripture can be recognized is when other scripture conflicts with or contradicts the way a scripture is used. To say "I post a lot of scripture" is meaningless if and when the scripture posted is misused.

• It is not scriptural to deny Genesis 1:31 and make all flesh bad.
• It is not scriptural to ignore Genesis 3:6-7 and act as if no change in the flesh occurred at that verse.
• It is not scriptural to post James 1:13-14 to say the sinless Jesus had bad desires that might entice him and drag him away to sin.
• It is not scriptural to post Hebrews 2:14 and 4:15 to say the sinless Jesus experience temptation in the exact same way sinful people experience it.
• It's not scriptural to post Galatians 5:16 and apply it to the pre-disobedient Adam or the sinless Jesus. The verse was written to and about former sinners who, having believed in Jesus, had been regenerated.
• It's not scriptural to post Galatians 5:24 and ignore Genesis 1:31 and 3:6-7.
• It's not scriptural to post Romans 8:3 and to assert Jesus' sinless flesh was weak like sinful flesh, or to suggest his appearance was something more than an appearance, especially when the exact same author plainly stated Jesus knew no sin and Peter explicitly stated he was perfect and free of blemish.
• It's not scriptural to use scripture selectively, or to ignore all else that scripture says on these matters.

The (mis)use of scripture was proved wrong.



And if you're wise then not only will you learn to post scripture better, but you'll also learn to be more discerning when you read/hear others teach AND recognize when they have misused scripture. Be just as critical of their words as you are of mine. Be just as guarded, just as discerning with your sources as you are of my posts. Anyone who says Jesus was actually temped and experienced the exact same things as Jeffrey Dahmer and managed to stay Savior is a bad teacher. They have not used scripture well. They don't come with flags or signs glued to their foreheads announcing the propensity to abuse God's word. Most of them don't know they're doing it. They're otherwise godly, earnest men and women but they lack exegetical skills sufficient to render whole scripture without internal contradiction.

Much of what you've posted is correct. Some of it is not. Keep what's correct, discard and replace what's not.

 

[LeviR]

And my response is you post a lot of selectively used and therefore misused scripture. Can you find a flaw in ANYTHING I have posted?

I did. Post 246 fails to correctly discriminate between the pre-disobedient flesh and the post-disobedient flesh. Post 246 also attempts to take verses written about post-disobedient Christians and apply them to pre-disobedient Adam. Both practices are wrong. Both practices are a misuse of scripture. Just because scripture is quoted does not mean it is employed correctly. One of the ways an incorrect use of scripture can be recognized is when other scripture conflicts with or contradicts the way a scripture is used. To say "I post a lot of scripture" is meaningless if and when the scripture posted is misused.

• It is not scriptural to deny Genesis 1:31 and make all flesh bad.
• It is not scriptural to ignore Genesis 3:6-7 and act as if no change in the flesh occurred at that verse.
• It is not scriptural to post James 1:13-14 to say the sinless Jesus had bad desires that might entice him and drag him away to sin.
• It is not scriptural to post Hebrews 2:14 and 4:15 to say the sinless Jesus experience temptation in the exact same way sinful people experience it.
• It's not scriptural to post Galatians 5:16 and apply it to the pre-disobedient Adam or the sinless Jesus. The verse was written to and about former sinners who, having believed in Jesus, had been regenerated.
• It's not scriptural to post Galatians 5:24 and ignore Genesis 1:31 and 3:6-7.
• It's not scriptural to post Romans 8:3 and to assert Jesus' sinless flesh was weak like sinful flesh, or to suggest his appearance was something more than an appearance, especially when the exact same author plainly stated Jesus knew no sin and Peter explicitly stated he was perfect and free of blemish.
• It's not scriptural to use scripture selectively, or to ignore all else that scripture says on these matters.

The (mis)use of scripture was proved wrong.



And if you're wise then not only will you learn to post scripture better, but you'll also learn to be more discerning when you read/hear others teach AND recognize when they have misused scripture. Be just as critical of their words as you are of mine. Be just as guarded, just as discerning with your sources as you are of my posts. Anyone who says Jesus was actually temped and experienced the exact same things as Jeffrey Dahmer and managed to stay Savior is a bad teacher. They have not used scripture well. They don't come with flags or signs glued to their foreheads announcing the propensity to abuse God's word. Most of them don't know they're doing it. They're otherwise godly, earnest men and women but they lack exegetical skills sufficient to render whole scripture without internal contradiction.

Much of what you've posted is correct. Some of it is not. Keep what's correct, discard and replace what's not.

You’re going on a false premise. You’re suggesting pre-disobedient Adam had different flesh than post-obedient Adam.
However, Paul tells us Adam was the natural man made from dust. That man cannot inherit the kingdom of God. He must be changed. And that comes by putting on a new nature, a divine nature.
The divine nature is the immortal nature which means it isn’t subject to sin or death

 

[Josheb]

The resurrection of Jesus proves he had not sinned, despite the fact that he had the same flesh in which no good thing dwells. Rom 7:18

I saw nothing @Josheb said that disagrees with that, except your presumption that assumes his flesh was inherently sinful.

By the way, the "flesh" referred to in Rom 7:18 is, as some translations render it, the "sinful nature", rather than a direct reference to the material wrapped around our bones.

If no good thing dwelt in Jesus' flesh, then he was not sinless. Romans 7:8 is written about those who had once been sinful sinners who had become redeemed and regenerate believers who were washed clean by the blood of Christ; those whose flesh had been crucified with Christ. Romans 7:8 is NOT about people who had never sinned, people who had never been found dead in sin, and/or people who hadn't taken on the form of a bondservant. Neither Paul nor his audience were Jesus. The context of Rom. 8:3 is that of people who'd been sinful but had come to know Jesus, the sinless Savior who knew no sin, whose flesh was like that of the pre-disobedient Adam, not the post-disobedient Adam. Sinlessness does not and cannot come from sinfulness. Reading Romans 8:3 as if that is not the case is an abuse of the verse.

For the record: translations that render "sarx" as "sinful nature" have taken liberties with the Greek. Denotatively the word means "flesh" and that's how the verse should be translated. Connotatively the word can refer to the character or nature of a person. In the context of Paul's larger narrative that context is that of sinful flesh, not sinless flesh.