Through one man, sin entered the world.

[LeviR]

You are saying that God created Adam with a nature to sin.

To quote Dr. R.C. Sproul:

“Satan approached Jesus with the same temptation he had posed to Adam, questioning the reliability of God’s Word.”

If Adam was indeed tempted as we are then that temptation comes from his own desire just as James states in James 1:13-15. And in fact, Jesus is said to have been tempted in all points as we are.

This clearly shows that the desires of the flesh are what gives birth to sin. And sin in turn to death.
So, to say Adam’s flesh or nature when created was unlike ours or Jesus is false.

 

[Carbon]

The effects of our sin spread to all the creation. God submitted all creation to futility. Romans 8:18-25

I believe that is teaching on (creation as in,) believers. I don't see any indication of it meaning anything else.

I agree, all creation is feeling it because of us.

Adam and Eve got the boot from the garden. So, all are subject, from that time on all of us including the earth are subject to entropy. That's normally how it was outside the garden.

 

[Carbon]

Except there would be a lot of dead and stinking animal bodies in Eden, eventually.

Of course not, they didn't die in Eden.

 

[JIM]

Of course not, they didn't die in Eden.

Were there no carnivores in Eden?

 

[Carbon]

Were there no carnivores in Eden?

Well, I don't know Jim, I wasn't there.

 

[Carbon]

I believe that is teaching on (creation as in,) believers. I don't see any indication of it meaning anything else.

I agree, all creation is feeling it because of us.

Adam and Eve got the boot from the garden. So, all are subject, from that time on all of us including the earth are subject to entropy. That's normally how it was outside the garden.

On this.

There is no plan B with God. A man was not created to live forever outside of Christ. The Tree gave him eternal life which was a type/shadow of Christ. This was all part of God's plan. Eden was created and Adam was placed in Eden, just as we are placed in Christ. The earth outside the garden existed (Adam was created from the dust outside the garden), and man was placed in the garden as a type/shadow of heaven. Outside, was wild and suffered from entropy.

I do not think this is antibiblical. God gave us a mind to use and reason with. I highly doubt I have this all correct, but it makes sense to me.

 

[Arial]

Of course not, they didn't die in Eden.

What if there had been no fall?

 

[Arial]

I believe that is teaching on (creation as in,) believers. I don't see any indication of it meaning anything else.

I agree, all creation is feeling it because of us.

Adam and Eve got the boot from the garden. So, all are subject, from that time on all of us including the earth are subject to entropy. That's normally how it was outside the garden.

Of course the creation is not literally groaning. That is an expression. But the passage clearly makes a distinction between human kind and creation itself. It says the creation is waiting for the fullness of our redemption. ANd it says that God subjected the creation to futility because of our sinfulness.

Those animals in Eden did not devour one another and neither did we devour them. They were quite tame. There was no fear in Eden.

But I know we disagree on this and no problem.

 

[Arial]

To quote Dr. R.C. Sproul:

“Satan approached Jesus with the same temptation he had posed to Adam, questioning the reliability of God’s Word.”

If Adam was indeed tempted as we are then that temptation comes from his own desire just as James states in James 1:13-15. And in fact, Jesus is said to have been tempted in all points as we are.

This clearly shows that the desires of the flesh are what gives birth to sin. And sin in turn to death.
So, to say Adam’s flesh or nature when created was unlike ours or Jesus is false.

Do you really want to have this conversation all over again?

We give in to temptation because we have desires for those things we should not desire. Quite naturally. Jesus did not, because he did not have those desires. He was not created. He is not a creature.

And that is the end of my conversation on the matter with you because I do not want to have the same conversation all over again.

 

[Arial]

To quote Dr. R.C. Sproul:

“Satan approached Jesus with the same temptation he had posed to Adam, questioning the reliability of God’s Word.”

And???

 

[Carbon]

What if there had been no fall?

The fall was predetermined

 

[Carbon]

Those animals in Eden did not devour one another and neither did we devour them. They were quite tame. There was no fear in Eden.

I agree.

But I know we disagree on this and no problem.

I agree

 

[Mr GLee]

By one man sin entered the world, and death by sin, so death passed to all, for all have sinned.

By the demonstration of one corrupted man sin entered the world, and death by sin, so death passed to all, for all have sinned. A person must be born agin

 

[fastfredy0]

Did this sin spread to all life or all men?

It spread to all life and all women and all men save one. So men are winning 1-0.

 

[CrowCross]

You can blame the serpent for Adam’s sin if you choose. God didn’t. God blamed Adam for his own sin and punished him according.
That the devil made me do it doesn’t work…..never, anywhere.

I don't necessarly blame satan for Adam and Eves disobedience....they listened to the deceiver and THEY chose to sin...despite Jesus' warning.

 

[CrowCross]

It’s the law that makes Adam a sinner.

Laws don't make you a sinner....the posted speed limit on the highway doesn't make you a speeder...unless you exceed it.

When God gave His laws to the Jews, it was not meant that they could keep it, it was meant to show them they could not.

I don't disagree. The Jews broke the speed limit.

 

[CrowCross]

You can blame the serpent for Adam’s sin if you choose. God didn’t. God blamed Adam for his own sin and punished him according.
That the devil made me do it doesn’t work…..never, anywhere.

The serpent ...satan...paid the price for their coercion...

The Fate of the Serpent

14So the LORD God said to the serpent:

“Because you have done this,

cursed are you above all livestock

and every beast of the field!

On your belly will you go,

and dust you will eat,

all the days of your life.

15And I will put enmity between you and the woman,

and between your seed and her seed.

He will crush your head,

and you will strike his heel.


Adam and Eve also were cursed.....

 

[CrowCross]

Adam sinned and passed death to all like him. To all made of dust.

I agree. PRAISE BE TO OUR GOD, LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST....who rescued us from our death.

 

[CrowCross]

@LeviR
Brakel said, Original sin consists of imputed guilt and inherent pollution.
We do not understand imputed guilt to mean that man, due to his inherited corruption, must be viewed as being in the same condition as Adam; that is as, if he in actuality had committed the same deed that Adam had committed. This would not be the imputation of someone else's crime, but rather of one's own. This would be nothing more than a comparison between specific sins of specific people, and a comparison between sins as far as guilt and punishment are concerned. Then our sinfulness could just as well be measured against the sins of others, instead of against Adam's sin. Rather, by imputed guilt we understand the imputation of the original breach of the covenant itself, as was committed by Adam. By denying or distorting this truth the foundation is laid also to deny the pollution of sin inherited from Adam and thus of all original sin. This in turn leads to the denial of the imputation of the righteousness of Christ.

Imputation occurs because of a personal crime, whereby he who personally commits a sin by virtue of the deed righteously makes himself worthy of punishment commensurate therewith; or this imputation occurs because of the crime of another person with whom one exists in a relationship, and by virtue of this relationship participate in the same sin. The sin of someone with whom we have no relationship whatsoever can also not righteously be imputed.

And God provided a means for us to impute out sins to Jesus Christ....our God, Lord and savor!!!

 

[LeviR]

It spread to all life and all women and all men save one. So men are winning 1-0.

There are many animals who are flesh and blood. Man is flesh and blood.
The flesh of animals is not sinful flesh. They are not made under the law.

Jesus’ flesh was not sinful flesh???
That would be true if Jesus was not made under the law.

Jesus, like the animals, was not of sinful flesh because Jesus was NOT made under the law.

Jesus is grouped among the animals.

Man is grouped among those under the law.

Animals and Jesus vs man 1-0