Through one man, sin entered the world.

[JIM]

Well, I don't know Jim, I wasn't there.

But you know that nothing died? How do you know that if you weren't there? The Bible certainly doesn't say anything about death in Eden except that Adam became dead in his sin of disobedience.

 

[LeviR]

I don't necessarly blame satan for Adam and Eves disobedience....they listened to the deceiver and THEY chose to sin...despite Jesus' warning.

It’s said that Eve desired (coveted) the fruit. Was that desire part of her nature or was it something the serpent created in her?

 

[LeviR]

Laws don't make you a sinner....the posted speed limit on the highway doesn't make you a speeder...unless you exceed it.

I don't disagree. The Jews broke the speed limit.

Where there is no law there is no sin. That means the law makes humans sinners. The law actually makes the flesh to be sinful.

 

[Arial]

Were there no carnivores in Eden?

They weren't created as carnivores.

Gen 1:30 "And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food."

 

[Alive]

A thought for consideration: the flesh is ‘self-centered’.
Christ Life is not.

 

[JIM]

A thought for consideration: the flesh is ‘self-centered’.
Christ Life is not.

So Jesus' flesh was or was not self-centered?

 

[Alive]

So Jesus' flesh was or was not self-centered?

I do not believe His flesh was as what mine is, although I may be wrong in a sense.
The most important thing is to understand He was sinless. He only did the will of the Father.

 

[JIM]

They weren't created as carnivores.

Gen 1:30 "And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food."

What does that mean to you? Did some herbivores become carnivores when Adam sinned? Did plant eating snakes, of which so far as I know do not even exist, suddenly, the moment Adam disobeyed, develop venom and fangs or become constrictors? Did lions, tigers, dogs, cats, suddenly lose the digestive process for plant food and develop the digestive processes, and other functions as carnivorous animals?

Or was it just that there were no carnivores in the Garden?

Or could it be that all that is meant there is that all animal life, whether carnivore or herbivore begins with plant food. That is, the carnivore depends on the herbivore which depends on plant food. Without plant food all animal life ceases to exist.

Also does it mean that some plants initially given for food suddenly become poisonous when Adam sinned?

 

[JIM]

I do not believe His flesh was as what mine is, although I may be wrong in a sense.
The most important thing is to understand He was sinless. He only did the will of the Father.

I will go with the second sentence. He was sinless, and that by His free will choice.

 

[Alive]

I will go with the second sentence. He was sinless, and that by His free will choice.

So by extension, we should also understand that His will was not limited by sin, as fallen Adam's is.

 

[CrowCross]

It’s said that Eve desired (coveted) the fruit. Was that desire part of her nature or was it something the serpent created in her?

As I've said...the desire didn't occur until the concept was introduced to Eve. The nature that was in her was not a sin nature that Satan put in her but was the nature of "Free-Will" that Satan messed with.

 

[CrowCross]

Where there is no law there is no sin. That means the law makes humans sinners. The law actually makes the flesh to be sinful.

The law is a standard in which you can judge a person as to being a sinner or not. Because there is a law doesn't mean you are disobedient to it.

 

[LeviR]

I will go with the second sentence. He was sinless, and that by His free will choice.

Two important ideas:

First, the law is made weak by the flesh.

Second, temptation makes the flesh weak.

Temptation comes by the desires and enticement of the flesh. Therefore, the flesh is made weak by temptation.

Once temptation takes hold, the law becomes weak by the flesh with its desires.

This is the condition Jesus was under. He was tempted like us, but did not sin.
To say his condition was not like ours is to rob him of his glory in overcoming the world.

 

[LeviR]

As I've said...the desire didn't occur until the concept was introduced to Eve. The nature that was in her was not a sin nature that Satan put in her but was the nature of "Free-Will" that Satan messed with.

“Free-Will” is an idea that seeks to eliminate the truth about the flesh of man.

 

[CrowCross]

What does that mean to you? Did some herbivores become carnivores when Adam sinned?

Yup. Pretty much. What do you think T-Rex's teeth were originally used for? They were probably similar in function to the fruit bat.

Did plant eating snakes, of which so far as I know do not even exist, suddenly, the moment Adam disobeyed, develop venom and fangs or become constrictors? Did lions, tigers, dogs, cats, suddenly lose the digestive process for plant food and develop the digestive processes, and other functions as carnivorous animals?

Did the snakes lose their legs? The bible hints at it. More on snakes.

Or was it just that there were no carnivores in the Garden?

Or could it be that all that is meant there is that all animal life, whether carnivore or herbivore begins with plant food. That is, the carnivore depends on the herbivore which depends on plant food. Without plant food all animal life ceases to exist.

Also does it mean that some plants initially given for food suddenly become poisonous when Adam sinned?

do you not believe in the future when all is restored?

Isaiah 11:6 The wolf shall dwell with the lamb,
and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together;
and a little child shall lead them.
7 The cow and the bear shall graze;
their young shall lie down together;
and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 The nursing child shall play over the hole of the cobra,
and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder’s den.
9 They shall not hurt or destroy
in all my holy mountain;
for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD
as the waters cover the sea.

 

[CrowCross]

“Free-Will” is an idea that seeks to eliminate the truth about the flesh of man.

Free-Will is an idea that everyone has wrong except you.

 

[LeviR]

Free-Will is an idea that everyone has wrong except you.

Luther wrote on “The Bondage of the Will”.
Edwards wrote on “The Freedom of the Will”.

The Bible writes on the weakness of the law and of the flesh.

 

[CrowCross]

Luther wrote on “The Bondage of the Will”.
Edwards wrote on “The Freedom of the Will”.

The Bible writes on the weakness of the law and of the flesh.

Yup, both are somewhat true. But, only you know the difference.

 

[LeviR]

Yup, both are somewhat true. But, only you know the difference.

It’s a matter of understanding what the Bible teaches opposed to what the RCC and other sects teach.

The serpent played on the desire of Eve to eat and become as God.

Has nothing to do with “free-will”.

Has everything to do with her nature of flesh.

 

[Arial]

What does that mean to you? Did some herbivores become carnivores when Adam sinned? Did plant eating snakes, of which so far as I know do not even exist, suddenly, the moment Adam disobeyed, develop venom and fangs or become constrictors? Did lions, tigers, dogs, cats, suddenly lose the digestive process for plant food and develop the digestive processes, and other functions as carnivorous animals?

Or was it just that there were no carnivores in the Garden?

Or could it be that all that is meant there is that all animal life, whether carnivore or herbivore begins with plant food. That is, the carnivore depends on the herbivore which depends on plant food. Without plant food all animal life ceases to exist.

Also does it mean that some plants initially given for food suddenly become poisonous when Adam sinned?

Why are you asking me those questions? If God doesn't spell it out for you or anyone else, I certainly can't. I just go by what it says. We can speculate all day long, even call our speculations absolute truth. But we will not be one teeny step closer to actually knowing what God does not tell us. And if we think we should and can figure everything out with our own finite minds concerning the infinite, then we have compromised faith.