Through one man, sin entered the world.

[LeviR]

When any law is given the possibility to break it exists. That didn't make Adam a sinful sinner from the moment of creation.

It’s the law that makes Adam a sinner.
When God gave His laws to the Jews, it was not meant that they could keep it, it was meant to show them they could not.

 

[CrowCross]

The serpent inflamed what was already in Eve. Desire. He didn’t create the desire.

Where does the bible say this?

From what I read after Satan "inflamed" Eve...it was then that Eve saw that the tree was good for food,

 

[CrowCross]

It’s the law that makes Adam a sinner.
When God gave His laws to the Jews, it was not meant that they could keep it, it was meant to show them they could not.

Now you're making stuff up. You are now saying God told Adam and Eve they couldn't eat from the tree...just to show them they couldn't keep the law???? Is that what you teach your kids?

 

[LeviR]

Now you're making stuff up. You are now saying God told Adam and Eve they couldn't eat from the tree...just to show them they couldn't keep the law???? Is that what you teach your kids?

God gave the law to expose the nakedness of Adam. Then He made a covering for his nakedness.
Just as God gave His law to the Jews to expose their complete inability to fully live up to its demands.

 

[LeviR]

Where does the bible say this?

From what I read after Satan "inflamed" Eve...it was then that Eve saw that the tree was good for food,

The serpent did not create a new nature for Eve. Desire is part of the nature God created for man. A desire to eat for one.

 

[CrowCross]

God gave the law to expose the nakedness of Adam. Then He made a covering for his nakedness.

You're now pushing speculation. I can also speculate and say Adam and Eve had a shekinah glory surrounding their body...and it was removed when they fell....and then they saw their nakedness. Adam and Eve replaced the shekinah glory with fig leaves and God said...no, use these garments from the innocent animal I killed in your place.

Just as God gave His law to the Jews to expose their complete inability to fully live up to its demands.

I can agree with that...and those laws are still here today...10 commandments for example...to show we can't live fully up to them. But then again the laws show us just what sinners we are...Not so for Adam and Eve who were not sinners prior to eating from the tree.

 

[CrowCross]

The serpent did not create a new nature for Eve. Desire is part of the nature God created for man. A desire to eat for one.

Which means nothing concerning your argument..that A&E were created with a sinful nature prior to eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

A sinful nature means that you have a propensity to sin. That is a natural behavior to sin. Just as a cow has the nature to moo a dog to bark or a spider to build a web.

Adam and Eve could sin...and they also could NOT sin.
As a child I could walk out on a diving board and jump off or turn around and climb back down the ladder and not jump off. I jumped off because of the encouragement I received from the people watching me. A little different scenario for A&E..as they could have eaten or could not have eaten...but they were lied to by Satan and encouraged to eat. And, they did. This resulted in their fall and our subsequent fall being of their progeny.

 

[LeviR]

You're now pushing speculation. I can also speculate and say Adam and Eve had a shekinah glory surrounding their body...and it was removed when they fell....and then they saw their nakedness. Adam and Eve replaced the shekinah glory with fig leaves and God said...no, use these garments from the innocent animal I killed in your place.

I can agree with that...and those laws are still here today...10 commandments for example...to show we can't live fully up to them. But then again the laws show us just what sinners we are...Not so for Adam and Eve who were not sinners prior to eating from the tree.

You can blame the serpent for Adam’s sin if you choose. God didn’t. God blamed Adam for his own sin and punished him according.
That the devil made me do it doesn’t work…..never, anywhere.

 

[LeviR]

Which means nothing concerning your argument..that A&E were created with a sinful nature prior to eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

A sinful nature means that you have a propensity to sin. That is a natural behavior to sin. Just as a cow has the nature to moo a dog to bark or a spider to build a web.

Adam and Eve could sin...and they also could NOT sin.
As a child I could walk out on a diving board and jump off or turn around and climb back down the ladder and not jump off. I jumped off because of the encouragement I received from the people watching me. A little different scenario for A&E..as they could have eaten or could not have eaten...but they were lied to by Satan and encouraged to eat. And, they did. This resulted in their fall and our subsequent fall being of their progeny.

Adam sinned and passed death to all like him. To all made of dust.

 

[Carbon]

It is so easy to change the course of an op.

 

[Carbon]

I can't think of any bible references to animals sinning, and besides, Paul wrote to the Corinthians:

“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.” (1Co 15:22 NKJV)

Only mankind can be said to be "in Adam."

I agree. Romans 5:12 reads, Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all mankind, because all sinned—

It has nothing to do with animals. So, animals could have died before the fall and it would have changed nothing.

 

[LeviR]

I agree. Romans 5:12 reads, Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all mankind, because all sinned—

It has nothing to do with animals. So, animals could have died before the fall and it would have changed nothing.

Sounds to me as if sin has the power of death. And nothing else.

 

[Carbon]

So, you don’t agree with the doctrine of original sin?

@LeviR
Brakel said, Original sin consists of imputed guilt and inherent pollution.
We do not understand imputed guilt to mean that man, due to his inherited corruption, must be viewed as being in the same condition as Adam; that is as, if he in actuality had committed the same deed that Adam had committed. This would not be the imputation of someone else's crime, but rather of one's own. This would be nothing more than a comparison between specific sins of specific people, and a comparison between sins as far as guilt and punishment are concerned. Then our sinfulness could just as well be measured against the sins of others, instead of against Adam's sin. Rather, by imputed guilt we understand the imputation of the original breach of the covenant itself, as was committed by Adam. By denying or distorting this truth the foundation is laid also to deny the pollution of sin inherited from Adam and thus of all original sin. This in turn leads to the denial of the imputation of the righteousness of Christ.

Imputation occurs because of a personal crime, whereby he who personally commits a sin by virtue of the deed righteously makes himself worthy of punishment commensurate therewith; or this imputation occurs because of the crime of another person with whom one exists in a relationship, and by virtue of this relationship participate in the same sin. The sin of someone with whom we have no relationship whatsoever can also not righteously be imputed.

 

[Carbon]

You can blame the serpent for Adam’s sin if you choose. God didn’t. God blamed Adam for his own sin and punished him according.
That the devil made me do it doesn’t work…..never, anywhere.

Romans 5:12 reads, Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all mankind, because all sinned—

All men have sinned in Adam.

 

[Carbon]

The people who sin become sinful.

If all men were not guilty with Adam, if Adam's sin wasn't imputed unto all men, then all men would enter this world as perfectly as Adam did.

 

[Alive]

I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.

Adam’s failure and fall affected Creation and Creature. Somehow it became the realm of Lucifer, although limited by God’s will and Plan. Adam became a co-worker with Lucifer as does all of his progeny.
The evidence is overwhelming. Total Depravity Godward and horrible in behavior toward one another.

 

[Carbon]

Adam’s failure and fall affected Creation and Creature. Somehow it became the realm of Lucifer, although limited by God’s will and Plan. Adam became a co-worker with Lucifer as does all of his progeny.
The evidence is overwhelming. Total Depravity Godward and horrible in behavior toward one another.

Got ya.

 

[Arial]

Did this sin spread to all life or all men?

The effects of our sin spread to all the creation. God subjected all creation to futility. Romans 8:18-25

 

[Arial]

I disagree with it. It fails to recognize the flesh Adam was made of as the cause of his sin.
It claims some type of fall of human nature after Adam’s sin rather than the nature Adam was created.

You are saying that God created Adam with a nature to sin. You have also said that Jesus had the same sin nature that we do.

 

[Arial]

I agree. Romans 5:12 reads, Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all mankind, because all sinned—

It has nothing to do with animals. So, animals could have died before the fall and it would have changed nothing.

Except there would be a lot of dead and stinking animal bodies in Eden, eventually.