Through one man, sin entered the world.

[Carbon]

When God gave law to Adam, Adam died. The law condemns the natural flesh man of dust.
We are not guilty of Adam’s sin, we are guilty of being created as he was. He was made directly of the dust, and we indirectly from him.

I don’t buy the idea that Adam sinned but wasn’t sinful, as the churches teach.

So, you don’t agree with the doctrine of original sin?

 

[LeviR]

Wrong.

Says you. The scripture NEVER speaks anything of a spiritual death. That’s man made teaching.
On the contrary, Adam was told that he would return to the dust he was made.
That was his sentence. And is our sentence.

 

[LeviR]

So, you don’t agree with the doctrine of original sin?

The RCC doctrine of original sin doesn’t recognize the cause of Adam’s sin. Which was the desire of flesh he was made of.
First came the desire to eat. Then came the eating. Then came death.
The desire of the flesh was the cause of the sin, and the sin was the cause of his death. Not just his, but ours also.

 

[Carbon]

I

The RCC doctrine of original sin doesn’t recognize the cause of Adam’s sin. Which was the desire of flesh he was made of.
First came the desire to eat. Then came the eating. Then came death.
The desire of the flesh was the cause of the sin, and the sin was the cause of his death. Not just his, but ours also.

I asked you, if you agreed with it. Not what the RCC believes. Or do you agree with everything the apostate church believes?

 

[Carbon]

@LeviR The church does not determine what the Bible teaches. The Bible determines what the church teaches.

 

[LeviR]

I

I asked you, if you agreed with it. Not what the RCC believes. Or do you agree with everything the apostate church believes?

I disagree with it. It fails to recognize the flesh Adam was made of as the cause of his sin.
It claims some type of fall of human nature after Adam’s sin rather than the nature Adam was created.

 

[CrowCross]

“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” Gen 2:17

“ For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.” Rom 7:9

Adam had only two laws at that time.

 

[JIM]

The RCC doctrine of original sin doesn’t recognize the cause of Adam’s sin. Which was the desire of flesh he was made of.
First came the desire to eat. Then came the eating. Then came death.
The desire of the flesh was the cause of the sin, and the sin was the cause of his death. Not just his, but ours also.

The desire of the flesh was not the cause of the sin. The desire of the flesh was perhaps the reason, but not the cause. The choice to concede and surrender to the desire of the flesh against the rule of God was the cause of the sin.

 

[CrowCross]

desire of the flesh was the cause of the sin

The bible doesn't say Adams desire of the flesh was the cause of the sin.

You might be able to say Satan through deception caused a desire of the flesh which wasn't there originally and became the cause of the sin.

 

[LeviR]

Adam had only two laws at that time.

Adam was alive before the commandment not to eat of the tree came. When the commandment came, sin in the flesh was made alive and it killed Adam.

 

[LeviR]

The bible doesn't say Adams desire of the flesh was the cause of the sin.

You might be able to say Satan through deception caused a desire of the flesh which wasn't there originally and became the cause of the sin.

We can’t say that the serpent created something in Adam or Eve that was not there when he was created. As something not part of his original nature.
If we say Adam was not created with desire of the flesh, and say the serpent created it in Adam, then the serpent would be solely responsible for recreating the nature of Adam to be disobedient to God.
It would then be an injustice to punish Adam.

 

[CrowCross]

Adam was alive before the commandment not to eat of the tree came. When the commandment came, sin in the flesh was made alive and it killed Adam.

No...read your bible...

Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Adam didn't "die" until the "day" he ate from the tree....your theology states Adam died on the day he was created as that's when the commandment was given. In fact your theology states Adam died prior to Eve being formed from his rib...as I said, Adam received the commandment prior to Eve being formed.

 

[LeviR]

No...read your bible...

Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Adam didn't "die" until the "day" he ate from the tree....your theology states Adam died on the day he was created as that's when the commandment was given. In fact your theology states Adam died prior to Eve being formed from his rib...as I said, Adam received the commandment prior to Eve being formed.

The day Adam ate is the day the death penalty was handed down to him. He was a dead man walking from that very day. He was made of dust and to it he returned.

 

[CrowCross]

We can’t say that the serpent created something in Adam or Eve that was not there when he was created.

Satan presented the deception....the desire through a lie. The desire wasn't there until Satan showed up.

As something not part of his original nature.
If we say Adam was not created with desire of the flesh, and say the serpent created it in Adam, then the serpent would be solely responsible for recreating the nature of Adam to be disobedient to God.

If Satan didn't show up and deceive Eve...Adam would not have eaten from the tree.

It would then be an injustice to punish Adam.

Adam was disobedient. So, yes it would be just for God to punish Adam.

 

[LeviR]

Satan presented the deception....the desire through a lie. The desire wasn't there until Satan showed up.

If Satan didn't show up and deceive Eve...Adam would not have eaten from the tree.

Adam was disobedient. So, yes it would be just for God to punish Adam.

The text says that Eve desired (coveted) the fruit. It doesn’t say the serpent recreated Eve’s nature to have a desire for it.

Adam is held accountable because he desired the fruit and ate of it. He wanted the fruit more than believing God.
This is why the law is made weak by the flesh.

 

[CrowCross]

The day Adam ate is the day the death penalty was handed down to him. He was a dead man walking from that very day. He was made of dust and to it he returned.

Yes, from the day Adam ate...not from the day of his creation as you suggested. in post 30.

We don't know how many days passed from the creation of Adam till he ate from the tree.

 

[LeviR]

Yes, from the day Adam ate...not from the day of his creation as you suggested. in post 30.

We don't know how many days passed from the creation of Adam till he ate from the tree.

When the law not to eat came, It became possible for Adam’s flesh to sin by the desire of it.

 

[CrowCross]

The text says that Eve desired (coveted) the fruit. It doesn’t say the serpent recreated Eve’s nature to have a desire for it.

No one said Satan recreated Eves nature.

Eve came to the conclusion that the tree was good for food, a delight to her eyes and could make here wise after her discussion with Satan.
if Satan didn't tempt Eve...she would not ave eaten from the tree and consequently given it to Adam to eat.

 

[CrowCross]

When the law not to eat came, It became possible for Adam’s flesh to sin by the desire of it.

When any law is given the possibility to break it exists. That didn't make Adam a sinful sinner from the moment of creation.

 

[LeviR]

No one said Satan recreated Eves nature.

Eve came to the conclusion that the tree was good for food, a delight to her eyes and could make here wise after her discussion with Satan.
if Satan didn't tempt Eve...she would not ave eaten from the tree and consequently given it to Adam to eat.

The serpent inflamed what was already in Eve. Desire. He didn’t create the desire.