The Ten Commandments

[Carbon]

Question,

Do those under grace have a duty to keep the Ten Commandments?

Why or why not?

 

[Soyeong]

Question,

Do those under grace have a duty to keep the Ten Commandments?

Why or why not?

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so that has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, that is what it means to be under grace, and that means that those under grace have the gift of getting to be a doer of the Mosaic Law. Likewise, in Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Mosaic Law is to teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is God’s gift of eternal life (John 17:3). This is also why those who are under grace are not permitted to transgress the Mosaic Law (Romans 6:15).

 

[Eleanor]

Question,
Do those under grace have a duty to keep the Ten Commandments?
Why or why not?

Those under grace are to be slaves to righteousness leading to holiness (Ro 6:16, 19).

 

[Hazelelponi]

Question,

Do those under grace have a duty to keep the Ten Commandments?

Why or why not?

I wouldn't phrase it like that perse. But we, as sons of adoption will seek, and desire to seek, to adopt for ourselves God's morality for us, which of course can be seen in the 10 commandments.

It's not the same as saying this is the law so we must follow it or be removed from the covenant. It's more like "as for me and my house we will serve the Lord", and adhering to God's moral law is just a part of that.

We are ambassadors of Christ, so we do desire to reflect his moral nature as much as we are able, simply because we love Him and desire to be a reflection of Him.

 

[ReverendRV]

Question,

Do those under grace have a duty to keep the Ten Commandments?

Why or why not?

No, we don't have a Duty to Keep the Law of Moses. We are Widowed to this Law, which was written on our Fallen Stoney hearts. Now, we are required to Keep the Royal Law of Christ; being empowered by Grace and a New Heart...

 

[Carbon]

No, we don't have a Duty to Keep the Law of Moses. We are Widowed to this Law, which was written on our Fallen Stoney hearts. Now, we are required to Keep the Royal Law of Christ; being empowered by Grace and a New Heart...

Then what would you make of this?

For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life: Proverbs 6:23.

 

[Soyeong]

No, we don't have a Duty to Keep the Law of Moses. We are Widowed to this Law, which was written on our Fallen Stoney hearts. Now, we are required to Keep the Royal Law of Christ; being empowered by Grace and a New Heart...

We need to die to the law of sin in order to be free to obey the Law of Moses, not the other way around. Someone having a heart of stone does not refer to them living in obedience to the Law of Moses, but to living in disobedience to it. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, God will take away our hearts of stone, give us hearts of flesh, and will send His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Law of Moses, and in Jeremiah 31:33, God will put the Law of Moses in our minds and write it on our hearts. Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example, and in Psalms 119:29, he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Law of Moses, obedience to it is the way to keep the royal Law of Christ; being empowered by grace and a new heart.

 

[ReverendRV]

Then what would you make of this?

For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life: Proverbs 6:23.

I would use Covenant Theology to say this is an Old Covenant Promise to the Hebrews. The Law of God, IE the Law of Moses written on our hearts, WAS our School Master; but we've graduated. Granted, the Law Degree we received from God, is a foundation to build our Liberty upon. We are now under the Law of Christ to Love the LORD our God with all our Heart, Mind, Body, Strength and Soul; and to Love our Neighbor as Ourselves. How we do this is Subjective and up to the person. Some people Keep one day, some Keep another. Some eat food offered to Idols, some don't. The Bible calls Christians 'Stronger and Weaker Brothers'. The Weaker Brother tries to Keep the Law of Moses, the Stronger Brother doesn't...

 

[Hazelelponi]

I would use Covenant Theology to say this is an Old Covenant Promise to the Hebrews. The Law of God, IE the Law of Moses written on our hearts, WAS our School Master;

It's nice to meet you. I hope your having a good day in Christ with family.

As to your post: No. It was tables of stone that was the school master.

Q.) Do you know what bounces off stone and doesn't implant itself? A.) Seed.

The seed is the word of God and the NEW Covenant promise is that GOD will change our hearts of stone, to hearts of flesh with the law written there so we never stray.

The law of God is God's very morality. And we ADOPT it as surely as we ourselves were adopted into the Family of God.

but we've graduated.

We didn't graduate from anything. The law should have taught us that much. Graduation implies improving to the point of obtaining some knowledge and self sufficiency.

Yet, the knowledge we should have gained is that we have no self sufficiency of our own.

The knowledge we gained is that our promised Messiah was given us, and His Name is Jesus. In His body all the promises are fulfilled, and in His Life we live, under a New and better Covenant than what was written in stone..

Because this one is given by the Spirit of Adoption. We are adopting this morality as surely as we ourselves are adopted.

It's not the law of Moses. It never was. It's His law.

Granted, the Law Degree we received from God, is a foundation to build our Liberty upon. We are now under the Law of Christ to Love the LORD our God with all our Heart, Mind, Body, Strength and Soul; and to Love our Neighbor as Ourselves.

Guess what those two commands of Christ perfectly encapsulates?

You got it - the whole of the 10 commandments, the whole of the law. All the parts that are our duties towards God, and those that are our duties before man.

You just in another thread made a post in which you made indirect reference I think of bearing false witness when you were speaking against liars.

When you condemn all liars, you are agreeing that bearing false witness is a sin against God and man, and your agreeing that living in correct relationship with God and man is an important aspect of living under the New Covenant in Christ's blood, and agreeing that so is living in accordance with the moral law shown us in the 10 commandments.

It's something we adopt when we are adopted into the family of God. It's a gift from God, not only faith in God .. but all of this. It's a gift, even the law we live in accordance with, because our father is God - and this is His very morality.

We love our Father and desire His good pleasure.

How we do this is Subjective and up to the person.

That's silly. No it's not. One person doesn't get to murder, and another bear false witness

We have a new moral compass now.

Just reminding, this thread is about 10 commandments written on tables of stone, not levitical laws, and not new covenant dietary laws.

ome people Keep one day, some Keep another. Some eat food offered to Idols, some don't. The Bible calls Christians

'Stronger and Weaker Brothers'. The Weaker Brother tries to Keep the Law of Moses, the Stronger Brother doesn't...

The 10 commandments and the law of Moses are actually two different things.

When we talk about the law of Moses we are including the levitical laws and other laws that Jesus stated were added to appease men.

The phrase: "The law of Moses" is never a specific reference to only 10 commandments, as you're noticing by having to reference new covenant dietary laws here. This is thread is concerning the 10 commandments, and those are the laws of God, not those of Moses.

Our very sanctification is this. Our adopting into our bodies more and more the morality of GOD, the morality of Christ.

All is a gift. But we love the law .. dearly love it, even if we can't live up we still manage to love God's law as much as we love God.

That's different than some force, it's not an or else. It's just love, because He first loved us.

Hope you have a great day and again, nice meeting you. The levitical law is all that is done away with, not God's moral law. Christ didn't change the law, not by one dotting of the eye or crossing of the t. But He did fulfill it.

Now, it lives in us.

 

[Fred]

Question,

Do those under grace have a duty to keep the Ten Commandments?

Why or why not?

9 of the 10 Commandments from the Decalogue are still to be obeyed by the Christian, because these 9 are repeated in the New Covenant. The 4th Commandment is not repeated in the New Covenant so it does not have to be obeyed.


1st Commandment
Old Covenant: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. (Exodus 20:3)
New Covenant: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. (Romans 1:25)

2nd Commandment
Old Covenant: 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me;
6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me, and keep My commandments. (Exodus 20:4-6)
New Covenant: Little children, keep yourselves from idols. (1 John 5:21)

3rd Commandment
Old Covenant: Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh His Name in vain. (Exodus 20:7)
New Covenant: Let as many slaves as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, that the Name of God and His doctrine be not blasphemed. (1 Timothy 6:1)

4th Commandment
Old Covenant: 8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exodus 20:8-11)
New Covenant: N/A

5th Commandment
Old Covenant: Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee. (Exodus 20:12)
New Covenant: Honor thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise. (Ephesians 6:2)

6th Commandment
Old Covenant: Thou shalt not murder. (Exodus 20:13)
New Covenant: Thou shalt not murder. (Romans 13:9)

7th Commandment
Old Covenant: Thou shalt not commit adultery. (Exodus 20:14)
New Covenant: Thou shalt not commit adultery. (Romans 13:9)

8th Commandment
Old Covenant: Thou shalt not steal. (Exodus 20:15)
New Covenant: Thou shalt not steal. (Romans 13:9)

9th Commandment
Old Covenant: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. (Exodus 20:16)
New Covenant: Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds. (Colossians 3:9)

10th Commandment
Old Covenant: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is thy neighbor's. (Exodus 20:17)
New Covenant: Thou shalt not covet. (Romans 13:9)

 

[Arial]

Question,

Do those under grace have a duty to keep the Ten Commandments?

Why or why not?

Yes they do.

Why? Because that is the whole point of redemption. A people who love God and are willingly obedient to him as their creator and sovereign. In stead of a people at enmity with him and are disobedient. IOW a people who reflect the image they created to reflect.

Fortunately for the redeemed, we wear the robes of Christ's righteousness, not our own righteousness. And it is God who does the work in us of growing in righteousness.

 

[ReverendRV]

You got it

Thanks...

For the Christian, even the Jots and Tittles have passed away; because Jesus Fulfilled the Law for us. I am Widowed from the Law of Moses, and am free to Marry another; IE the Law of Christ...

Till all be fulfilled.—Literally, Till all things have come to pass. The words in the English version suggest an identity with the “fulfil” of Matthew 5:17, which is not found in the Greek. The same formula is used in the Greek of Matthew 24:34. The “all things” in both cases are the great facts of our Lord’s life, death, resurrection, and the establishment of the kingdom of God. So taken, we find that the words do not assert, as at first they seem to do, the perpetual obligation even of the details of the Law, but the limit up to which the obligation was to last; and they are therefore not inconsistent with the words which speak of the system of the Law as a whole as “decaying and waxing old, and ready to vanish away” (Hebrews 8:13). The two “untils” have each of them their significance. Each “jot” or “tittle “must first complete its work; then, and not till then, will it pass away. Matthew 5:18 Commentaries: "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

 

[Arial]

I would use Covenant Theology to say this is an Old Covenant Promise to the Hebrews. The Law of God, IE the Law of Moses written on our hearts, WAS our School Master; but we've graduated. Granted, the Law Degree we received from God, is a foundation to build our Liberty upon. We are now under the Law of Christ to Love the LORD our God with all our Heart, Mind, Body, Strength and Soul; and to Love our Neighbor as Ourselves. How we do this is Subjective and up to the person. Some people Keep one day, some Keep another. Some eat food offered to Idols, some don't. The Bible calls Christians 'Stronger and Weaker Brothers'. The Weaker Brother tries to Keep the Law of Moses, the Stronger Brother doesn't...

Proverbs 6:23 is wisdom literature. Teaching us how to be wise and the knowledge of God is the beginning of wisdom, and the only source of true wisdom. So it is not a promise to the Hebrews. It is truth then and now.

To those under the law of the Mosaic covenant, it was the law that shone a light on righteousness and convicted of unrighteousness. It was a lamp unto their feet. But the Mosaic covenant law is under the umbrella of the Ten Commandments which covers all righteousness. Obey the first four pertaining to God, and you will be obeying the last six. (And the fourth is met and always kept because in him we have entered his rest. The Sabbath rest is not ultimately about a particular day. The day of rest in the Law was a memorial to their rescue from the bondage of hard labor in Egypt by God.)

That is why Jesus summed the whole law up in Love of God and no other God, and love of neighbor. One who has been placed in Christ through faith, has these commandments written on our hearts, not on stone tablets. Not as a legal code with punishment for disobedience attached, but as who God has made us in Christ. Jesus already bore the penalty for our disobedience in his own body on the cross, and the Father imputes his perfect righteousness to us, so that when we inevitably sin while we wear this flesh, we are not condemned by it. And with this law written on our hearts, our hearts love this law and look to it for light for our feet.

 

[ReverendRV]

Proverbs 6:23 is wisdom literature. Teaching us how to be wise and the knowledge of God is the beginning of wisdom, and the only source of true wisdom. So it is not a promise to the Hebrews. It is truth then and now.

To those under the law of the Mosaic covenant, it was the law that shone a light on righteousness and convicted of unrighteousness. It was a lamp unto their feet. But the Mosaic covenant law is under the umbrella of the Ten Commandments which covers all righteousness. Obey the first four pertaining to God, and you will be obeying the last six. (And the fourth is met and always kept because in him we have entered his rest. The Sabbath rest is not ultimately about a particular day. The day of rest in the Law was a memorial to their rescue from the bondage of hard labor in Egypt by God.)

That is why Jesus summed the whole law up in Love of God and no other God, and love of neighbor. One who has been placed in Christ through faith, has these commandments written on our hearts, not on stone tablets. Not as a legal code with punishment for disobedience attached, but as who God has made us in Christ. Jesus already bore the penalty for our disobedience in his own body on the cross, and the Father imputes his perfect righteousness to us, so that when we inevitably sin while we wear this flesh, we are not condemned by it. And with this law written on our hearts, our hearts love this law and look to it for light for our feet.

Amen Sister. I would sum up my point by saying that when a Christian tries to Keep the Law of Moses, Grace is no longer Grace. Or at best, they are the Weaker Brother...

 

[ReverendRV]

Amen Sister. I would sum up my point by saying that when a Christian tries to Keep the Law of Moses, Grace is no longer Grace. Or at best, they are the Weaker Brother...

The Royal Law ~ by ReverendRV * November 8

James 2:8 KJV; If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.

There was a time when Jesus commissioned several disciples and he was instructing them in the way of his ministry. During this time an Expert spoke up and asked Jesus how to inherit Eternal Life, this is what was said; “Behold, a Lawyer stood up to put Jesus to the test. ‘Teacher, what shall I do to inherit Eternal Life?’ Jesus said, ‘What is written in the Law? How does it say?’ The Lawyer answered, ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your Heart and with all your Soul and with all your Strength and with all your Mind, and your neighbor as yourself.’ Jesus said ‘You have answered correctly; do it, and you will live.’ The lawyer desired to justify himself, ‘Who is my neighbor?"’ ~ Saint James taught about Loving your Neighbor, about not showing partiality; which the Expert had in spades! ~ How could you ever keep this Royal Law with all your Heart?

Jesus answered the Lawyer’s question with an example of a foreigner who helped an injured man on a road. A Priest and a Levite wouldn’t stop to help the man. The Lawyer knew that if this ever occurred, Jesus would be right; because those two wouldn’t touch anything unclean. Have you ever helped someone when they were in dire straits? Most people can answer Yes to this; but none can say that they kept the Law of God by doing this! You object, “Saint Paul said Loving your Neighbor as yourself fulfills the Law!” Yes he did; but only a Royal Prince from Heaven can fulfill this Royal Law of God. A Pauper only has a Commoners Law that was given to Sinners; the Ten Commandments. These ten Laws were given to show us that we are guilty as Sin, and that we’re outlaws who will be locked away in a devil’s Hell for all Eternity. ~ The Baptist Theologian John Gill said this of the Royal Law; ‘Which is the Law of love to Man, without distinction of rich and poor, high and low, bond and free; and is so called, because it’s the Law of the King of kings, it is the Law of Christ, who is King of Saints; and because it is a principal Law, the chief of Laws; as Love to God is the sum of the first and great commandment in the Law, and may be called the King of Laws; so Love to the Neighbor is the second and next unto it, and may very well bear the name of the Queen of Laws, and has Royalty in it; and indeed this last is said to be the fulfilling of the Law, and it is also submitted to, and obeyed by such who are made kings and priests to God; and to be done in a Royal manner, with a Princely Spirit, Willingly, and with all readiness:’

What we need is to be made Kings and Priests of God in order to be able to fulfill the Queen of Laws and live! There’s only one way to receive this Coronation and it’s by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ the King of Kings; without Works lest we boast. His shed blood pays our Sin debt for us, but his Resurrection from the dead grants us our Royal title. Repent from Sin, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God; and you will be Forgiven. Gain your commission from him and you’ll be Saved from your Sins; you will be spiritually Born Again with a Prince’s birthright! Jesus will grant it that you rule and reign with him in his Kingdom forever in Eternity. You’re now able to keep the Royal Law of God since you’re under the jurisdiction of Heaven as a citizen who can exercise your new found rights. ~ Give up your life as a dying Pauper and exchange it for the Life of an everlasting Prince; an Heir of the one true King. Read the Bible and find your Kingdom Agenda…

Revelations 1:6 KJV; To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

 

[Arial]

Amen Sister. I would sum up my point by saying that when a Christian tries to Keep the Law of Moses, Grace is no longer Grace...

Not exactly according to your wording imv, though I think we probably mean the same thing.

We should try to keep the law of God (Ten Commandments not the Mosaic Covenant Law as a legal document). We can't be careless about it. It is that fine line between God's sovereignty (monergism) and human responsibility. If we try to keep the Legal code in the covenant with Israel as an addition to faith in Christ, yes grace has ceased to be grace.

His word is a lamp unto our feet, and the Holy Spirit in us holds the lamp, and our heart cries out, "Teach me your ways O Lord, that I might walk in them."

 

[ReverendRV]

Not exactly according to your wording imv, though I think we probably mean the same thing.

We should try to keep the law of God (Ten Commandments not the Mosaic Covenant Law as a legal document). We can't be careless about it. It is that fine line between God's sovereignty (monergism) and human responsibility. If we try to keep the Legal code in the covenant with Israel as an addition to faith in Christ, yes grace has ceased to be grace.

His word is a lamp unto our feet, and the Holy Spirit in us holds the lamp, and our heart cries out, "Teach me your ways O Lord, that I might walk in them."

Yes; everything written in the Past, was written for us...

What do you think about this? Some of Us eat food offered to Idols; some don't. For the Christian who won't eat food offered to Idols, is it because of the 2nd Commandment? Some Keep the Sabbath on the last day; is it because of the 4th Commandment? Are we Antinomians for Keeping the Lord’s Day, instead of the Sabbath?

These are the Ten Commandments...

 

[Arial]

Yes; everything written in the Past, was written for us...

What do you think about this? Some of 'Us'ward eat food offered to Idols; some don't. For the Christian who won't eat food offered to Idols, is it because of the Second Commandment? One Keeps the Sabbath on the other on the First day; is it because of the fourth Commandment? Are we Antinomians?

The Christian who won't eat food offered to idols----and this must be placed in its historical context as to who Paul is writing to and it placement in history--- has simply not yet learned the things that more mature Christians have learned. It bothers his conscience to eat what was offered to idols because he is still spiritually attached to the Sinai Covenant restrictions. Remember too, that Jews were surrounded by pagan idol worship at the time. It is because of the second commandment (they would most likely be Jews or Gentiles who had previously converted to Judaism. But the abstaining, since it was not condemned by Paul, would not have been because they were adding to faith as something necessary for salvation, but because of conscience.

Same with keeping the Sabbath. If it is being used as a means of salvation in addition to faith in Christ, then it is misguided as to and understanding of what the Sabbath rest was all about when God rested on the seventh day from his work and then established a seventh day rest for Israel. As a memorial. What day of the week it is does not matter. Even the day on which the church gathers before God, is a memorial of Christ's fulfilling the the true day of rest. For believers now, as having entered that rest in Christ and the future fulfillment of God's work of redemption completed.

So no we are not antinomians if we eat food sacrificed to idols or if we do not follow the Sabbath commands (and there were many Sabbaths, not just one day of the week) given to Israel.

 

[Carbon]

Yes they do.

Why? Because that is the whole point of redemption. A people who love God and are willingly obedient to him as their creator and sovereign. In stead of a people at enmity with him and are disobedient. IOW a people who reflect the image they created to reflect.

Fortunately for the redeemed, we wear the robes of Christ's righteousness, not our own righteousness. And it is God who does the work in us of growing in righteousness.

Amen!

 

[ReverendRV]

The Christian who won't eat food offered to idols----and this must be placed in its historical context as to who Paul is writing to and it placement in history--- has simply not yet learned the things that more mature Christians have learned. It bothers his conscience to eat what was offered to idols because he is still spiritually attached to the Sinai Covenant restrictions. Remember too, that Jews were surrounded by pagan idol worship at the time. It is because of the second commandment (they would most likely be Jews or Gentiles who had previously converted to Judaism. But the abstaining, since it was not condemned by Paul, would not have been because they were adding to faith as something necessary for salvation, but because of conscience.

Same with keeping the Sabbath. If it is being used as a means of salvation in addition to faith in Christ, then it is misguided as to and understanding of what the Sabbath rest was all about when God rested on the seventh day from his work and then established a seventh day rest for Israel. As a memorial. What day of the week it is does not matter. Even the day on which the church gathers before God, is a memorial of Christ's fulfilling the the true day of rest. For believers now, as having entered that rest in Christ and the future fulfillment of God's work of redemption completed.

So no we are not antinomians if we eat food sacrificed to idols or if we do not follow the Sabbath commands (and there were many Sabbaths, not just one day of the week) given to Israel.

Yeah, that's basically all I'm saying...