The Ten Commandments

[ReverendRV]

The Christian who won't eat food offered to idols----and this must be placed in its historical context as to who Paul is writing to and it placement in history--- has simply not yet learned the things that more mature Christians have learned. It bothers his conscience to eat what was offered to idols because he is still spiritually attached to the Sinai Covenant restrictions. Remember too, that Jews were surrounded by pagan idol worship at the time. It is because of the second commandment (they would most likely be Jews or Gentiles who had previously converted to Judaism. But the abstaining, since it was not condemned by Paul, would not have been because they were adding to faith as something necessary for salvation, but because of conscience.

Same with keeping the Sabbath. If it is being used as a means of salvation in addition to faith in Christ, then it is misguided as to and understanding of what the Sabbath rest was all about when God rested on the seventh day from his work and then established a seventh day rest for Israel. As a memorial. What day of the week it is does not matter. Even the day on which the church gathers before God, is a memorial of Christ's fulfilling the the true day of rest. For believers now, as having entered that rest in Christ and the future fulfillment of God's work of redemption completed.

So no we are not antinomians if we eat food sacrificed to idols or if we do not follow the Sabbath commands (and there were many Sabbaths, not just one day of the week) given to Israel.

I guess all I would ask, is for everyone to agree that a Christian who holds to the Law is the Weaker Brother. At the Council of Jerusalem, the Pharisees would have been the Weaker Brothers for wanting Circumcision; Saint Peter was the Stronger Brother for wanting Sola Fide...

 

[Soyeong]

9 of the 10 Commandments from the Decalogue are still to be obeyed by the Christian, because these 9 are repeated in the New Covenant. The 4th Commandment is not repeated in the New Covenant so it does not have to be obeyed.


1st Commandment
Old Covenant: Thou shalt have no other gods before Me. (Exodus 20:3)
New Covenant: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. (Romans 1:25)

2nd Commandment
Old Covenant: 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate Me;
6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me, and keep My commandments. (Exodus 20:4-6)
New Covenant: Little children, keep yourselves from idols. (1 John 5:21)

3rd Commandment
Old Covenant: Thou shalt not take the Name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh His Name in vain. (Exodus 20:7)
New Covenant: Let as many slaves as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honor, that the Name of God and His doctrine be not blasphemed. (1 Timothy 6:1)

4th Commandment
Old Covenant: 8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exodus 20:8-11)
New Covenant: N/A

5th Commandment
Old Covenant: Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee. (Exodus 20:12)
New Covenant: Honor thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with a promise. (Ephesians 6:2)

6th Commandment
Old Covenant: Thou shalt not murder. (Exodus 20:13)
New Covenant: Thou shalt not murder. (Romans 13:9)

7th Commandment
Old Covenant: Thou shalt not commit adultery. (Exodus 20:14)
New Covenant: Thou shalt not commit adultery. (Romans 13:9)

8th Commandment
Old Covenant: Thou shalt not steal. (Exodus 20:15)
New Covenant: Thou shalt not steal. (Romans 13:9)

9th Commandment
Old Covenant: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. (Exodus 20:16)
New Covenant: Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds. (Colossians 3:9)

10th Commandment
Old Covenant: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is thy neighbor's. (Exodus 20:17)
New Covenant: Thou shalt not covet. (Romans 13:9)

Do you really think that Jesus would have been fine with people disobeying every command that is not specifically repeated in the NT?

Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, including keeping the Sabbath holy, so he would have still taught full obedience to it by example even if he hadn’t repeated any commandments, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6). Jesus did not say anything about being in disagreement with the Father about which commandment we should follow or about editing God’s down to just what would be repeated in the NT. In John 14:24, Jesus said that his teaching were not his own, but that of the Father, so he did not teach his own set of commandments. In John 15:10, Jesus used a parallel statement to equate his commandments with those of the Father and he did not hypocritically take the position that we should only do as he said, but not as he did.

Jesus and the NT authors quoted or alluded to the OT thousands of times in order to support what they were saying, so it is contradictory to accept what they said as being authoritative while not accepting what they considered to be authoritative. For example, Jesus quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, including saying that man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God, so there aren’t good grounds for thinking that Jesus was in disagreement with anything that God spoke in Deuteronomy just because it is not recorded that he specifically repeated it.

 

[Fred]

Do you really think that Jesus would have been fine with people disobeying every command that is not specifically repeated in the NT?

One cannot disobey what is not there.

 

[Soyeong]

One cannot disobey what is not there.

God’s righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of God’s righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160) and the only way to do away with instructions for how to act in accordance with God’s righteousness would be by first doing away with God’s righteousness.

 

[Fred]

God’s righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:160),

Which is found in 2 Cor. 9:9.

therefore all of God’s righteous laws are also eternal

No, they aren't.

Physical circumcision is no longer required. The same holds true with animal sacrifices.

You want to defend they both are still required then have it by showing they are.

 

[Carbon]

God’s righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of God’s righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160) and the only way to do away with instructions for how to act in accordance with God’s righteousness would be by first doing away with God’s righteousness.

Some would say, that all scripture is a commentary on the Commandments as a moral duty.


Would you agree with that?

 

[Carbon]

Some would say, that all scripture is a commentary on the Commandments as a moral duty.


Would you agree with that?

Scripture also teaches,

Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart. Psalm 119:34.

 

[Carbon]

Question,

Do those under grace have a duty to keep the Ten Commandments?

Why or why not?

Id say, our freedom is from the curse of the law and its penalty. Not from the guidance, direction, or the commands of the law.

 

[makesends]

Question,

Do those under grace have a duty to keep the Ten Commandments?

Why or why not?

Only as they are specific ways of the two —to love the Lord with all one's being, and to love one's neighbor as oneself.

They are God's uncorrupted expression of what is good for humanity to do. And "to him that knows to do good, and does it not, to him it is sin."

 

[Carbon]

One cannot disobey what is not there.

What is no longer there? The law?

 

[Fred]

What is no longer there? The law?

Our requirement to obey the 7th day Sabbath command.

 

[Carbon]

Our requirement to obey the 7th day Sabbath command.

There are different understandings on that. For example, the Puritans would not work on Sundays - the Sabbath. Others believe Christ is our Sabbath. etc..


But what about the others? Do you believe they are no longer required?

 

[Fred]

There are different understandings on that. For example, the Puritans would not work on Sundays - the Sabbath. Others believe Christ is our Sabbath. etc..

It matters not what the Puritans did in terms of their understanding or misunderstanding. It matters what the Bible teaches.
Sunday is not the Sabbath.

But what about the others? Do you believe they are no longer required?

The other 9 commandments of the Decalogue are to be obeyed because they are part of the New Covenant.
See post 10.

 

[Carbon]

It matters not what the Puritans did in terms of their understanding or misunderstanding. It matters what the Bible teaches.
Sunday is not the Sabbath.



The other 9 commandments of the Decalogue are to be obeyed because they are part of the New Covenant.
See post 10.

Ok, thanks Fred.

 

[Eleanor]

God’s righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of God’s righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160) and the only way to do away with instructions for how to act in accordance with God’s righteousness would be by first doing away with God’s righteousness.

Are all the Levitical laws eternal?

 

[Eleanor]

It matters not what the Puritans did in terms of their understanding or misunderstanding. It matters what the Bible teaches.
Sunday is not the Sabbath.

Correct,. . .there remains another (Heb 4:8) Sabbath rest for the people of God (Heb 4:9-10).
Christ is our Sabbath, in whom we have God's own (Heb 3:11) full-time (Heb 4:4) Sabbath rest (Heb 3:11, 4:10-11) from our work to save ourselves, and in Christ's work which saves.

 

[makesends]

It matters not what the Puritans did in terms of their understanding or misunderstanding. It matters what the Bible teaches.
Sunday is not the Sabbath.

Does the 10 commandments say, "Thou shalt not lie."? No, it uses the phrase, "bear false witness". That's quite a wide margin of difference!

Sunday is my 7th day.

 

[Fred]

Does the 10 commandments say, "Thou shalt not lie."? No, it uses the phrase, "bear false witness". That's quite a wide margin of difference!

Sunday is my 7th day.

Bearing false witness is lying.

 

[makesends]

Bearing false witness is lying.

Of course it is. But not all lying is "bear[ing] false witness against your neighbor."

 

[Fred]

Of course it is. But not all lying is "bear[ing] false witness against your neighbor."

Thing is both covenants forbid to do this.