Does Colossians 2:16 abolish the Fourth Commandment?

[Red Baker]

While Jesus had cause to criticize some Pharisees for their pride and hypocrisy, that does not mean that is something inherently wrong with sounding like a Pharisee. Not being a woman is a legitimate reasons to not follow the laws that were specifically given to women, so there are legitimate reasons for not follow a particular law that James 2:1-11 is not addressing while picking and choosing is an illegitimate reason for not following a particular law. I think that this is an important distinction, so I'm not spinning anything and I don't have a motivation for having people think the way that I want them to think other than that I think that it is true. If you want to accuse me of "poisoning people's understanding with my lies", then please demonstrate where I have spoken deceitfully or apologize. In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, so my goal is to lead people to follow what Scripture says is truth.

I owe you no apology~ for I have spoke nothing in comparison to what Paul spoke against your brothers before you, when he called them dogs and told us to beware of folks like you.

Philippians 3:1-9~"Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:"

Soyeong, Messianic Judaism is nothing more than the religion of the Jews' that Paul rejected and has warned us to do the same! A religion that he himself was prosperous in~a religion that puts confidence in man's flesh and his own righteousness.

Messianic Jews believe God's people have a responsibility to spread his name and fame to all nations. It is believed among them, that the Children of Israel were, remain, and will continue to be the chosen people of the God, and are central to his plans for existence.

That thinking/teaching is so far from the truth. I will not spend a lot of time dealing with a Gentile like you who has been deceived in believing that Abraham's natural seed are God chosen people when that doctrine is false and has been addressed by Paul in Romans 9.

The law was not given to give life, or a hope of life to come, or even as a means of giving them assurance that they are righteous~it was given strictly for God's elect to be a schoolmaster for them to help them to NOT trust in themselves but to look totally to the obedience and faith of Jesus Christ as their only means of justification before God.

Once a child of God come to the full understanding of the purpose of God's law, that person is no longer under the schoolmaster as far as needing him to instruct them to trust in Christ's faith/righteousness alone. They come to a understanding ( by the schoolmaster, the law their teacher ) that it is impossible for them to continue in all things commanded by the law and if they offend in one thought, word, and or deed, they were guilty of all and they under God's curse ~ they learned from the scriptures that they were IN Christ by God's election of grace while he lived in this world and what he did was as though they did it and that his righteousness, faith, and obedience, is their without the works of the law, since he fulfilled the law of God for them perfectly in his flesh and removed the curse and condemnation they were under.

I'll come back and address more of your post to me later.

 

[Soyeong]

It seems you didn't bother reading Acts 15. I'll summarise it for you.

Jewish disciples: "we should teach the Gentiles to obey the Laws of Moses".
Peter: "No, we should not".

I've read Acts 15, which is why I think that your summary is incorrect. In Deuteronomy 13:4-5, the way that God instructed His people to determine whether someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him was if they taught against obeying the Law of Moses, so we should still obey the Law of Moses regardless of whether or not your summary is correct. The Jerusalem Council did not have the authority to countermand God or to tell anyone not to obey anything that He has commanded, so they should not be interpreted as trying to do that, and they should not be obeyed instead of God even if that was what they had been trying to do. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so we should be quicker to disregard everything that any man has said than to disregard anything that God has commanded. You should be quicker to think that you must have completely misunderstood Acts 15 than to think that it makes perfect sense to interpret followers of God as speaking against follow His commands, and even if you think that is what what they were doing, then you should be quicker to think that they therefore were not servants of God than to think that we should therefore follow them instead of God.

 

[Soyeong]

I owe you no apology~ for I have spoke nothing in comparison to what Paul spoke against your brothers before you, when he called them dogs and told us to beware of folks like you.

I have not supposed the position that Gentiles are required become circumcised first in order to become saved, but rather I completely agree with Paul's stance against the Judaizers, so you are blatantly taking that verse out of context in order to apply it to me.

Soyeong, Messianic Judaism is nothing more than the religion of the Jews' that Paul rejected and has warned us to do the same! A religion that he himself was prosperous in~a religion that puts confidence in man's flesh and his own righteousness.

Christ was a Jew who set an example for us to follow of how to practice the religion of Judaism by living in obedience to the Torah and Paul should not be interpreted as teaching us to reject Christ. In Acts 21:39 and 22:3, Paul still identified as a Jew, so he did not reject the religion of the Jews, and in Acts 23:6, Paul still identified as a Pharisee, which is a Torah observant part of Judaism. In Acts 21:20-24, Paul planned to take steps to disprove false rumors that he was teaching against the Torah and to show that he continued to live in obedience to it. In Acts 24:14, Paul testifies that according to The Way, which they call a sect, he worships the God of his fathers, believing everything laid down by the Torah and written in the Prophets, which means that The Way is a sect of Judaism. The religion that God instituted and taught to the Israelites does not teach us to put confidence in man's flesh or in our own righteousness.

That thinking/teaching is so far from the truth. I will not spend a lot of time dealing with a Gentile like you who has been deceived in believing that Abraham's natural seed are God chosen people when that doctrine is false and has been addressed by Paul in Romans 9.

The law was not given to give life, or a hope of life to come, or even as a means of giving them assurance that they are righteous~it was given strictly for God's elect to be a schoolmaster for them to help them to NOT trust in themselves but to look totally to the obedience and faith of Jesus Christ as their only means of justification before God.

While that the Mosaic Law was not given in order to earn eternal life as a wage, there is nevertheless an abundance of verses that make it clear that the way to have eternal life is by obeying the Mosaic Law. For example, in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that obedience to the greatest two commandments is the way to inherit eternal life and something that we inherit is not something that we earn as a wage. In 1 John 3:7, everyone who practices righteousness is righteous even as they are righteous and the Mosaic Law is God's instructions for how to practice righteousness, so obedience to it through faith does affirm that we are righteous.

Someone who disregarded everything that their schoolmaster taught them after thy graduated would be missing the whole point of a schoolmaster. Nowhere does the Bible say that the Mosaic Law was give as a way of trusting ourselves or to help us to not trust in ourselves. God is trustworthy, therefore the Mosaic Law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by trusting in the Mosaic Law. Trusting in ourselves does not involve trusting in anyone else, so it is contradictory to think that we are trusting in ourselves by trusting in what God has instructed. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the Mosaic Law leads us to Christ because its goal is to teach us how to know Him. In other words, God's word was given to teach us how to trust in God's word made flesh.

Once a child of God come to the full understanding of the purpose of God's law, that person is no longer under the schoolmaster as far as needing him to instruct them to trust in Christ's faith/righteousness alone. They come to a understanding ( by the schoolmaster, the law their teacher ) that it is impossible for them to continue in all things commanded by the law and if they offend in one thought, word, and or deed, they were guilty of all and they under God's curse ~ they learned from the scriptures that they were IN Christ by God's election of grace while he lived in this world and what he did was as though they did it and that his righteousness, faith, and obedience, is their without the works of the law, since he fulfilled the law of God for them perfectly in his flesh and removed the curse and condemnation they were under.

I'll come back and address more of your post to me later.

In 1 John 3:10, whoever does not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law is not a child of God, it is not the case that a child of God becomes no longer under it after coming to the full understanding of its purpose, but rather obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to trust in Christ's righteousness alone.

When someone is doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law, they are testifying that they believe that the God of Israel is good, or in other words, they are believing in His goodness or are believing in His goodness alone, and the same is true for other aspects of God's nature. Nowhere does the Bible say that we are to come to an unstinting that it is impossible to do all things commanded in the Mosaic Law, but rather it states that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey (Deuteronomy 30:11-14) and Romana 10:5 references that passage as the word of faith that we proclaim, which is the word of faith that you are denying. If we break any law and become a lawbreaker, then we need to repent and to return to obedience by faith in accordance with what James was encouraging them to do, which is something that anyone can do. It is only those who chase after other gods and refuse to repent who come under the curse. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, and he walked in obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is the way to have faith in him alone.

Nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law for us and thus deprived us of God's gift of righteousness. While the only way to become righteous is by faith apart from being required to have first done righteous works, becoming someone who is righteous by faith means becoming someone who practices righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law by faith, so it is contradictory to become someone righteous apart from becoming someone who practices righteousness in obedience to it.

 

[Hobie]

And as I said, Christ fulfilled the Law and we fulfill the law when we walk according to the Spirit for it is His life in us that is being expressed.

Romans 10:4
Christ has fulfilled everything the law was meant to do. So now everyone who believes can be right with God.

The problem is which spirit, as if it goes against Gods law, from where is its origin, not from God.

 

[ChristB4us]

So do you 'walk according to the Spirit' when you break Gods Ten Commandments, got to think that one over..

How do you explain Jesus testifying to how His disciples were guiltless for picking ears of corn to eat on the sabbath day/

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Jesus cited 2 examples where the O.T. saints DID profane the sabbath but they were guiltless because they were in the Temple. Then Jesus brought the reference to the then for how One greater than the Temple was here in testifying for how His disciples were guiltless in that day.

Jesus being with His disciples was how His disciples were guiltless for profaning the sabbath day.

Now that we are saved and no longer under the Old Covenant to keep the laws to obtain salvation by, when we look at the new reality of us believers in Christ, we see this:

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Our bodies are now the temples of the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Jesus Christ is in us in according to our faith in Him.

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus Christ is with us always even when we sin or sow to the flesh for why we are warned not to grieve the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Bottom line; you referred to Colossians and applied it as not including the sabbath day in the OP; BUT Paul would have made sure that was to be maintained after disregarding every other sabbaths. Therefore that reference in Colossians also include the sabbath day.

Here is another reference for you to apply with Colossians as why you should also apply that to the keeping of the sabbath day.

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

So if you wish to honor the Lord on the sabbath day ( Saturday ) you are free to do that BUT you are not to judge anyone honoring the Lord on Sunday as if they are breaking that commandment because He lives in them for why they are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day.

Evidence of church worship held on the first day of the week hence Sunday can be found below as Paul gave this ordinance for all churches to do in setting aside a portion from the bounty collected at church service for the support of missionaries.

1 Corinthians 16:1Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

All the references in Acts about His disciples going to the synagogues on the sabbath was for ministry outreach; not for holding church services. Try holding a Christian service while in Jewish synagogue on the sabbath day and you risk getting kicked out and even spat upon as the Jews did towards Christians being at the wall in Jerusalem.

Another reference about church service or fellowship held on the first day of the week when they broke bread.

Acts 20: 7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

May God cause the increase.

 

[Mr GLee]

How do you explain Jesus testifying to how His disciples were guiltless for picking ears of corn to eat on the sabbath day/

The word Sabbath is Rest it is not time sensitive. Ceremonial laws are shadows of the eternal moral law. They add nothing to the believer and neither do they take away. They are signs to the world not self-edifying works of the flesh.

 

[Red Baker]

I have not supposed the position that Gentiles are required become circumcised first in order to become saved, but rather I completely agree with Paul's stance against the Judaizers, so you are blatantly taking that verse out of context in order to apply it to me.


Christ was a Jew who set an example for us to follow of how to practice the religion of Judaism by living in obedience to the Torah and Paul should not be interpreted as teaching us to reject Christ. In Acts 21:39 and 22:3, Paul still identified as a Jew, so he did not reject the religion of the Jews, and in Acts 23:6, Paul still identified as a Pharisee, which is a Torah observant part of Judaism. In Acts 21:20-24, Paul planned to take steps to disprove false rumors that he was teaching against the Torah and to show that he continued to live in obedience to it. In Acts 24:14, Paul testifies that according to The Way, which they call a sect, he worships the God of his fathers, believing everything laid down by the Torah and written in the Prophets, which means that The Way is a sect of Judaism. The religion that God instituted and taught to the Israelites does not teach us to put confidence in man's flesh or in our own righteousness.


While that the Mosaic Law was not given in order to earn eternal life as a wage, there is nevertheless an abundance of verses that make it clear that the way to have eternal life is by obeying the Mosaic Law. For example, in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that obedience to the greatest two commandments is the way to inherit eternal life and something that we inherit is not something that we earn as a wage. In 1 John 3:7, everyone who practices righteousness is righteous even as they are righteous and the Mosaic Law is God's instructions for how to practice righteousness, so obedience to it through faith does affirm that we are righteous.

Someone who disregarded everything that their schoolmaster taught them after thy graduated would be missing the whole point of a schoolmaster. Nowhere does the Bible say that the Mosaic Law was give as a way of trusting ourselves or to help us to not trust in ourselves. God is trustworthy, therefore the Mosaic Law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by trusting in the Mosaic Law. Trusting in ourselves does not involve trusting in anyone else, so it is contradictory to think that we are trusting in ourselves by trusting in what God has instructed. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the Mosaic Law leads us to Christ because its goal is to teach us how to know Him. In other words, God's word was given to teach us how to trust in God's word made flesh.


In 1 John 3:10, whoever does not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law is not a child of God, it is not the case that a child of God becomes no longer under it after coming to the full understanding of its purpose, but rather obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to trust in Christ's righteousness alone.

When someone is doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law, they are testifying that they believe that the God of Israel is good, or in other words, they are believing in His goodness or are believing in His goodness alone, and the same is true for other aspects of God's nature. Nowhere does the Bible say that we are to come to an unstinting that it is impossible to do all things commanded in the Mosaic Law, but rather it states that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey (Deuteronomy 30:11-14) and Romana 10:5 references that passage as the word of faith that we proclaim, which is the word of faith that you are denying. If we break any law and become a lawbreaker, then we need to repent and to return to obedience by faith in accordance with what James was encouraging them to do, which is something that anyone can do. It is only those who chase after other gods and refuse to repent who come under the curse. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, and he walked in obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is the way to have faith in him alone.

Nowhere does the Bible say that Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law for us and thus deprived us of God's gift of righteousness. While the only way to become righteous is by faith apart from being required to have first done righteous works, becoming someone who is righteous by faith means becoming someone who practices righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law by faith, so it is contradictory to become someone righteous apart from becoming someone who practices righteousness in obedience to it.

I just saw this and will respond later. Just marking it for now.

 

[ChristB4us]

The word Sabbath is Rest it is not time sensitive. Ceremonial laws are shadows of the eternal moral law. They add nothing to the believer and neither do they take away. They are signs to the world not self-edifying works of the flesh.

Your quote was in response to my quote below.

ChristB4us said:
How do you explain Jesus testifying to how His disciples were guiltless for picking ears of corn to eat on the sabbath day?

Jesus did say that the saints in the O.T. had indeed profaned the sabbath day by what they did in the Temple BUT because they were in the Temple was why they were guiltless and so the sabbath was indeed time sensitive and the commandment was still in effect even for today But now as it was in Jesus's day when He was defending His disciples, it was because He was with them was why His disciples were guiltless.

For saved believers, Jesus Christ is in us as our bodies has become the temples of the Holy Spirit for why we are guiltless for still profaning the sabbath day.

 

[ChristB4us]

Christ was a Jew who set an example for us to follow of how to practice the religion of Judaism by living in obedience to the Torah and Paul should not be interpreted as teaching us to reject Christ. In Acts 21:39 and 22:3, Paul still identified as a Jew, so he did not reject the religion of the Jews, and in Acts 23:6, Paul still identified as a Pharisee, which is a Torah observant part of Judaism. In Acts 21:20-24, Paul planned to take steps to disprove false rumors that he was teaching against the Torah and to show that he continued to live in obedience to it. In Acts 24:14, Paul testifies that according to The Way, which they call a sect, he worships the God of his fathers, believing everything laid down by the Torah and written in the Prophets, which means that The Way is a sect of Judaism. The religion that God instituted and taught to the Israelites does not teach us to put confidence in man's flesh or in our own righteousness.

What is Paul talking about here?

Philippians 3:1Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.

3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; 6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. 16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing. 17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

Isn't Paul reciting his stance in Judaism as touching the righteousness which is in the law as blameless and yet he considered it all dung?

Also, isn't the full requirement of keeping the sabbath day holy is that the Jews were to stone Jews to death for breaking the sabbath day?

If Paul really wanted Gentiles to keep the sabbath day as well as Jews that converted to Christianity, don't you think Paul would be careful to teach that no saved believer is to stone another believer to death for breaking the sabbath day commandment?

While that the Mosaic Law was not given in order to earn eternal life as a wage, there is nevertheless an abundance of verses that make it clear that the way to have eternal life is by obeying the Mosaic Law. For example, in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that obedience to the greatest two commandments is the way to inherit eternal life and something that we inherit is not something that we earn as a wage. In 1 John 3:7, everyone who practices righteousness is righteous even as they are righteous and the Mosaic Law is God's instructions for how to practice righteousness, so obedience to it through faith does affirm that we are righteous.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Jews including Paul as Saul, the Pharisees, did not keep the Old Covenant for why the New Covenant had to come AND if you note in verse 33 onward, God is saying He will do this and all He asks from us is to believe Him.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

This is why little children are free to come to the Lord and why we are to become like children by trusting the Lord at His word that He will do it; He will destroy the works of the devil in our lives and enable us to follow Him.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

That means it is no longer on us to keep the law but to look to Him as we get to know Him when we trust Him to help us lay aside every weight ( provision for the flesh ) & sin daily in following Him, in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son..

Nowadays believers have been led astray to make a commitment to follow Christ to gain the assurance of salvation but they will not be justified by it for by that commitment is the knowledge of sin. Keeping that commitment or promise is not how we have power in following Christ. We have power since salvation and this is applied when we follow Him by faith in Him in keeping that New Covenant that He will do it.

 

[ReverendRV]

So do you 'walk according to the Spirit' when you break Gods Ten Commandments, got to think that one over..

Christians don't break the Ten Commandments; even if they Keep them differently...

 

[Soyeong]

What is Paul talking about here?

Philippians 3:1-9

Isn't Paul reciting his stance in Judaism as touching the righteousness which is in the law as blameless and yet he considered it all dung?

There is a different between the position that someone is doing something wrong, so they should stop doing it, and the position that someone is doing something wrong, so they should start doing it correctly. Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to obey the Mosaic Law, so he was much more zealous for obedience to it than the Pharisees were, and he never spoke against obeying it, but he did speaking against transgressing it or against obeying it incorrectly. So we should be careful not to mistake what was only say against obeying the Mosaic Law incorrectly as being against obeying it when that was done for the purpose of leading us to obey it correctly.

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing Jesus is the goal of the Mosaic Law, which is eternal life (John 17:3). In other words, the goal of us embodying God's word is to know the one who is the embodiment of God's word. In Romans 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to obtain righteousness because they were incorrectly obeying it in a manner that was missing it goal by pursuing it as though righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursuing the Mosaic Law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. So in Philippians 3:1-9, Paul was not saying that the Mosaic Law is dung and what matters is knowing Christ, but rather Paul had been in the same situation where he had been incorrectly obeying God's law by not being focused on knowing Christ, so he had been missing the whole goal of the law, and that is what he counted as dung.

God did not give the Mosaic Law for the purpose of teaching us how to establish our own righteousness, but as instructions for how to know Him through testifying about His righteousness. Likewise, by doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law we are not establishing our own goodness, but rather we are testifying about God's goodness, which is why our good works give glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying about God's goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words we are believing in and knowing Him, and the same goes for other aspects of God's nature. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so the way to bring glory to God and to believe in the Son is by following his example. The way for us to believe that the Son is just is by being just, the way to believe that the Son is holy is by being holy, and so forth, and it is by that faith that we become righteous, just, holy, and so forth, which is why everyone who does what is righteous is righteous even as he is righteous (1 John 3:7).

Also, isn't the full requirement of keeping the sabbath day holy is that the Jews were to stone Jews to death for breaking the sabbath day?

If Paul really wanted Gentiles to keep the sabbath day as well as Jews that converted to Christianity, don't you think Paul would be careful to teach that no saved believer is to stone another believer to death for breaking the sabbath day commandment?

Indeed, while breaking the Sabbath still carries the death, Jesus has paid that penalty in our place, and it would be unjust to still enforce a penalty that he has already paid.

Jeremiah 31:31-34

Jews including Paul as Saul, the Pharisees, did not keep the Old Covenant for why the New Covenant had to come AND if you note in verse 33 onward, God is saying He will do this and all He asks from us is to believe Him.

In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so tat is not one of the ways that it is not like the Mosaic Covenant. In regard to Israel's redemption cycles, the good kings tended to live for much longer than the evil kings did, so the Israelites were under a good king for a majority of the time, and while that was far from perfect, that was even farther from complete failure to keep the Mosaic Covenant.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

This is why little children are free to come to the Lord and why we are to become like children by trusting the Lord at His word that He will do it; He will destroy the works of the devil in our lives and enable us to follow Him.

God has straightforwardly made His will know through what He has instructed in His law (Psalms 40:8), so believing in Jesus should be understood as being an alternative to believing in Jesus, but rather God's law is His instructions for how to believe in him and the way to trust God is by trusting in His instructions.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

That means it is no longer on us to keep the law but to look to Him as we get to know Him when we trust Him to help us lay aside every weight ( provision for the flesh ) & sin daily in following Him, in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son..

All of those verses are in accordance with keeping God's law. God is holiness, righteousness, goodness, justice, mercy, faithfulness, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control, and so forth, so the way to look to Him is by expressing those aspects of His nature in obedience to His instructions for how to do that found in His law. It is contradictory to look to God instead of looking to His instructions, it is contradictory to know God instead of following His instructions for how to know Him, it is contradictory to trust God instead of trusting His instructions.

Nowadays believers have been led astray to make a commitment to follow Christ to gain the assurance of salvation but they will not be justified by it for by that commitment is the knowledge of sin. Keeping that commitment or promise is not how we have power in following Christ. We have power since salvation and this is applied when we follow Him by faith in Him in keeping that New Covenant that He will do it.

Christ is the embodiment of God's word, so the commitment to follow Christ is the commitment for us to also embody God's word. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we are not required to earn our salvation as the result of having first obeyed it, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the gift of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. For example, us honoring our parents through faith in Jesus is intrinsically part of him saving us from not honoring our parents, and honoring our parents is how we have assurance that he is saving us from not honoring our parents.

 

[ChristB4us]

There is a different between the position that someone is doing something wrong, so they should stop doing it, and the position that someone is doing something wrong, so they should start doing it correctly. Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to obey the Mosaic Law, so he was much more zealous for obedience to it than the Pharisees were, and he never spoke against obeying it, but he did speaking against transgressing it or against obeying it incorrectly. So we should be careful not to mistake what was only say against obeying the Mosaic Law incorrectly as being against obeying it when that was done for the purpose of leading us to obey it correctly.

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing Jesus is the goal of the Mosaic Law, which is eternal life (John 17:3). In other words, the goal of us embodying God's word is to know the one who is the embodiment of God's word. In Romans 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to obtain righteousness because they were incorrectly obeying it in a manner that was missing it goal by pursuing it as though righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursuing the Mosaic Law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. So in Philippians 3:1-9, Paul was not saying that the Mosaic Law is dung and what matters is knowing Christ, but rather Paul had been in the same situation where he had been incorrectly obeying God's law by not being focused on knowing Christ, so he had been missing the whole goal of the law, and that is what he counted as dung.

God did not give the Mosaic Law for the purpose of teaching us how to establish our own righteousness, but as instructions for how to know Him through testifying about His righteousness. Likewise, by doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law we are not establishing our own goodness, but rather we are testifying about God's goodness, which is why our good works give glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying about God's goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good, or in other words we are believing in and knowing Him, and the same goes for other aspects of God's nature. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so the way to bring glory to God and to believe in the Son is by following his example. The way for us to believe that the Son is just is by being just, the way to believe that the Son is holy is by being holy, and so forth, and it is by that faith that we become righteous, just, holy, and so forth, which is why everyone who does what is righteous is righteous even as he is righteous (1 John 3:7).


Indeed, while breaking the Sabbath still carries the death, Jesus has paid that penalty in our place, and it would be unjust to still enforce a penalty that he has already paid.


In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so tat is not one of the ways that it is not like the Mosaic Covenant. In regard to Israel's redemption cycles, the good kings tended to live for much longer than the evil kings did, so the Israelites were under a good king for a majority of the time, and while that was far from perfect, that was even farther from complete failure to keep the Mosaic Covenant.


God has straightforwardly made His will know through what He has instructed in His law (Psalms 40:8), so believing in Jesus should be understood as being an alternative to believing in Jesus, but rather God's law is His instructions for how to believe in him and the way to trust God is by trusting in His instructions.


All of those verses are in accordance with keeping God's law. God is holiness, righteousness, goodness, justice, mercy, faithfulness, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control, and so forth, so the way to look to Him is by expressing those aspects of His nature in obedience to His instructions for how to do that found in His law. It is contradictory to look to God instead of looking to His instructions, it is contradictory to know God instead of following His instructions for how to know Him, it is contradictory to trust God instead of trusting His instructions.


Christ is the embodiment of God's word, so the commitment to follow Christ is the commitment for us to also embody God's word. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we are not required to earn our salvation as the result of having first obeyed it, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the gift of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. For example, us honoring our parents through faith in Jesus is intrinsically part of him saving us from not honoring our parents, and honoring our parents is how we have assurance that he is saving us from not honoring our parents.

I ask you to ask Jesus Christ for help if you are being double-minded about God's law that you need to see in order to repent of, because a believer's commitments speaks of himself and his effort and willpower whereas a believer's faith speaks of Him for the power in us that He enables us to follow Him by.

John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Stands to reason why it is written that the just shall live by faith in Jesus Christ & all His words to us.

I shall pray for you, because the Lord set me free from my double-minded state of doing the best I can in keeping that commitment and failed to relying on Jesus Christ all the time for following Him daily for I can do nothing without Him.

 

[Soyeong]

I ask you to ask Jesus Christ for help if you are being double-minded about God's law that you need to see in order to repent of, because a believer's commitments speaks of himself and his effort and willpower whereas a believer's faith speaks of Him for the power in us that He enables us to follow Him by.

I've not expressed any double-mindedness about God's law. God's law about what we can do through our own effort apart from God. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by obediently trusting in His law.

John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. 29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Stands to reason why it is written that the just shall live by faith in Jesus Christ & all His words to us.

I shall pray for you, because the Lord set me free from my double-minded state of doing the best I can in keeping that commitment and failed to relying on Jesus Christ all the time for following Him daily for I can do nothing without Him.

God's law was not given as instructions for how to seek our own glory, but for how to bring glory to Him. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God, and in Romans 8:4-14, those who are born again of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Habakkuk 2, the righteous who live by faith are connect with those who live in obedience to God in contrast with those who do not. Likewise, in Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is God's law, so the righteous living by faith does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to it. It is contradictory to think that we are relying on ourselves by relying on God's instructions or to think that we should rely on God's word made flesh instead of relying on God's word.

 

[Mr GLee]

In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so tat is not one of the ways that it is not like the Mosaic Covenant. In regard to Israel's redemption cycles, the good kings tended to live for much longer than the evil kings did, so the Israelites were under a good king for a majority of the time, and while that was far from perfect, that was even farther from complete failure to keep the Mosaic Covenant.

I do not think longevity has a purpose with the gospel just like temporal healing.

The spiritual understand hid must be sought out in the parables

Kings in Israel a "abomination of desolation" . God in 1 Samuel 8 gave over the atheist Jew to do what they should not of . Reject the KIng of kings reinig over them through His living word given to the prophets sent as apostles.

God used kings (a government of men ) in parables. Faithless unbelievers having denied his government of faith (the unseen things of God) until the time of the first century reformation . Then he made to the abomination of desolation desolate when he walked out of the temple made with human hands in Matthew 23.

The time of the reformation restoring the order of prophets sent as apostles called Judges had come destroying the Pagan governments of dying mankind and there oral traditions.

 

[ChristB4us]

I've not expressed any double-mindedness about God's law.

Then what about your faith in Jesus Christ?

God's law about what we can do through our own effort apart from God.

But the Good News is about Jesus Christ and what He can do for us and not just give us eternal life.

God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by obediently trusting in His law.

No.

Your premise is God is trustworthy and therefore Jesus Christ is trustworthy.

All God's law does is prove to the Jews that they can't do it for why we need Jesus Christ as Our Saviour as well as Our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him daily by looking to Him to help us lay aside every weight & sin and thus walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son thereby living that reconciled relationship with God through Jesus Christ.... not through God's law as if still under the Old Covenant in doing the best you can to keep His laws but rather living by faith in Jesus Christ.

It all about where your focus is for how you follow Him; on yourself by your effort to keep the law in following Him or by your faith in Him.

That is where you are not to be doubleminded about; your faith in Jesus Christ.

God's law was not given as instructions for how to seek our own glory, but for how to bring glory to Him. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God, and in Romans 8:4-14, those who are born again of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Habakkuk 2, the righteous who live by faith are connect with those who live in obedience to God in contrast with those who do not. Likewise, in Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is God's law, so the righteous living by faith does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to it. It is contradictory to think that we are relying on ourselves by relying on God's instructions or to think that we should rely on God's word made flesh instead of relying on God's word.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Galatians 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2 Corinthians 4: For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Ask yourself how you can apply these scriptures to your testimony about you keeping God's law by your effort and then ask yourself where your faith in Jesus Christ is at and what you apply your faith in Jesus Christ for? Indeed, share all your hope in Jesus Christ..... if you can.

 

[Mr GLee]

The law as to the letter the temporal things seen (scripture) . T"hou shall not or in dying you will come to a end". God's instrument of judgment

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Christ delivers us of that law (death) as a Faithful Creator ."Let there be" and it seen the testimony Father spoke was perfectly good . The mixing of the two creates one new perfect law. . Apart from each other nothing changes nothing either all die (the letter) or God does not have moral laws.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Beautiful parable found in the Psalm 19 (the perfect law the perfect mix ) Christ coming down to rescue his bride the church the mixing of death and new born again life

Psalm 19:7-12 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward. Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.

 

[Hobie]

How do you explain Jesus testifying to how His disciples were guiltless for picking ears of corn to eat on the sabbath day/

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Jesus cited 2 examples where the O.T. saints DID profane the sabbath but they were guiltless because they were in the Temple. Then Jesus brought the reference to the then for how One greater than the Temple was here in testifying for how His disciples were guiltless in that day.

Jesus being with His disciples was how His disciples were guiltless for profaning the sabbath day.

Now that we are saved and no longer under the Old Covenant to keep the laws to obtain salvation by, when we look at the new reality of us believers in Christ, we see this:

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Our bodies are now the temples of the Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Jesus Christ is in us in according to our faith in Him.

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus Christ is with us always even when we sin or sow to the flesh for why we are warned not to grieve the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Bottom line; you referred to Colossians and applied it as not including the sabbath day in the OP; BUT Paul would have made sure that was to be maintained after disregarding every other sabbaths. Therefore that reference in Colossians also include the sabbath day.

Here is another reference for you to apply with Colossians as why you should also apply that to the keeping of the sabbath day.

Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

So if you wish to honor the Lord on the sabbath day ( Saturday ) you are free to do that BUT you are not to judge anyone honoring the Lord on Sunday as if they are breaking that commandment because He lives in them for why they are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day.

Evidence of church worship held on the first day of the week hence Sunday can be found below as Paul gave this ordinance for all churches to do in setting aside a portion from the bounty collected at church service for the support of missionaries.

1 Corinthians 16:1Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

All the references in Acts about His disciples going to the synagogues on the sabbath was for ministry outreach; not for holding church services. Try holding a Christian service while in Jewish synagogue on the sabbath day and you risk getting kicked out and even spat upon as the Jews did towards Christians being at the wall in Jerusalem.

Another reference about church service or fellowship held on the first day of the week when they broke bread.

Acts 20: 7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

May God cause the increase.

Is eating a sin, of course not, the Jews had made so many rules of 'traditions' and man, that the Sabbath became a burden. Satan knows his work and purpose, and does it well...

 

[ChristB4us]

Is eating a sin, of course not, the Jews had made so many rules of 'traditions' and man, that the Sabbath became a burden. Satan knows his work and purpose, and does it well...

Please take note that the Pharisees were not condemning His disciples for eating but for profaning the sabbath.

Jesus did not deny this accusation but defended them by referring to 2 incidents in the O.T. where the saints DID profane the sabbath but were guiltless because they were in the Temple. And so He defended His disciples by pointing out One greater than the Temple was here, namely Himself, for why His disciples were guiltless.

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Now do you understand Matthew 12:8? This is how we are guiltless for profaning the sabbath because we are saved since we had received His righteousness of God by faith apart from the law. The new reality in Christ Jesus is our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ is within us always for why we are guiltless for profaning the sabbath day.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[Hobie]

In Colossians 2:17, Paul said that God's holy days are foreshadows of what is to come, so we should live in a way that testifies about what is to come by continuing to observe them rather than a way that bears false witness against what is to come. In 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Jesus by drawing the connection of him being our Passover Lamb, however, instead of concluding that we should no longer bother observing Passover, he concluded by saying that we should therefore continue to observe it.

In order to refer to the moral or ceremonial law, you should first show where the Bible refers to those as being a categories of law and then lists which laws belong in each of those categories because if you don't establish that your concept of the moral or ceremonial law is identical to a concept that the authors of the Bible had, then you are misinterpreting them by interpreting them as referring to a concept that you created.

To suggest that some of God's laws are not moral laws is to suggest that we can be acting morally while disobeying those laws, however, there is no example in the Bible where disobedience to any of God's laws was treated as being moral, nor do I see any reason to think that it can ever be moral to disobey God. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. Legislators give laws according to what they think ought to be done, so for someone to claim that some of God's laws are not moral laws is to claim that God made a moral error about what ought to be done when He gave those laws, and therefore to claim to have greater moral knowledge than God.

In Hebrews 4:9-11, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, we should rest from our works in accordance with how God rested from His works after six days of creation, and we should strive to enter into that rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so Hebrews 4 does not support disobeying God's command to keep the 7th day holy, but just the opposite. We can't keep a principle while not keeping the examples that were given to testify about that principle.

The question becomes does the principle come from the moral law, then as Christ asked, is the resulting action lawful.

 

[Runningman]

Many people claim that the verse Colossians 2:16 abolishes the Fourth Commandment of Gods eternal Ten Commandments which deals with the keeping of Gods seventh day Sabbath, but something that most Christians are also NOT taught is that there are two distinctly separate sets of laws in the Holy Bible. Those laws were the Ten Commandments of God himself, and the Law of Moses, also known as the 'ceremonial law'.

We will first look at the verse itself, then study the bible to see which law the author of the verse is referring too.

Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

We notice that this verse along with mentioning the 'sabbath days' also mentions 'meat', 'drink', 'a holy day' and 'the new moon'. If we study Gods Ten Commandments we will notice that none of the commandments have anything to do with meat, drink, a holy day or the new moon. These things all had to do with the festival days kept in the Ceremonial Law of Moses. The Ceremonial Law of Moses had 7 Festival Days that were also known as 'Sabbaths'. So this becomes a definite clue as to which law this particular verse belongs too.

Another clue as to which law this verse is referring to can be found just two verses earlier in Colossians 2:14 which reads:

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Notice in this verse it specifically states that it was the 'handwriting of ordinances that was against us' that was nailed to the cross.

To better understand what the 'handwriting of ordinances against us' is lets study how each law came into being. First we will look at the Ten Commandments of God. The bible tells us that:
Exodus 31:18
And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

In this verse we specifically see that the Ten Commandments were written by God himself. God had engraved the commandments in stone with His own finger, they were not 'handwritten' by men. It should also be pointed out here that the Ten Commandments are the only part of the bible that God took the time to write Himself. These alone were written upon the tables, so this should be an indication of their importance to Him.

Next lets look at how the Ceremonial Law of Moses came into existence. In Deuteronomy 31:24-26 we read:

Deuteronomy 31:24-26
24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished,
25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying,
26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Notice that it was the ceremonial law that was dictated to and handwritten by Moses that was placed beside the Ark of the Covenant as a witness 'against us', not the Ten Commandments of God. Gods Ten Commandments have never been 'against us'. If we believe that Colossians 2:14 above is actually a depiction of the Ten Commandments being nailed to the cross we have to ask ourselves why would God nail a law to the cross and 'take it out of the way' if that law stated that He was the only God? Also, if we believe that it was the Ten Commandments that were nailed to the cross we also must believe that the commandments concerning murder, theft, adultery, idol worship and others have also been removed, which simply would not make any sense.

Therefore it becomes easy to see with honest and accurate bible study that the law that was nailed to the cross and taken out of our way was the Ceremonial Law of Moses, NOT the Ten Commandments of God or any part of the Ten Commandments, because it was the Ceremonial Law of Moses that was the handwritten witness against us, which Colossians 2:14 shows as being nailed to the cross.

Applying any part of Colossians 2:14 or 2:16 to the Ten Commandments uses both verses completely out of context because the law that is a witness 'against us' is easily defined in the bible as the Ceremonial Law of Moses and also the 'Sabbath days' mentioned in Colossians 2:16 could only refer to the Festival Days of the Ceremonial law and still be used in context with the rest of that verse also.

It is also important to mention that the phrase 'Sabbath days' is used in its plural form to show a multiple set of days as you only find in the Ceremonial Law, whereas in the Ten Commandments there is only one singular Sabbath day.

It makes perfect sense that the Ceremonial Law would be nailed to the cross as it mainly pointed forward to the coming and sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross, and also the Ceremonial Law dealt with sacrifices and other rituals of atonement that Israel had to carry out until the crucifixion. But once Jesus died on the cross sacrifices were no longer necessary and the Ceremonial Law was done away with forever and 'nailed to the cross'.

About His Ten Commandment God explicitly states:

Deuteronomy 5:29
O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

He states His commandments are to last forever. And when He was on earth, Jesus also confirms for us:

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Have Heaven and Earth 'passed away'? Obviously not, so how can any of the Law of God, His Ten Commandments have changed? Unless we wish to believe Jesus lied or was mistaken we can only accept that Gods Law has never changed. Jesus said none of the Law of God would change. Actually Heaven and Earth are just going to be recreated, they will never actually and cease to exist. What Jesus is saying is just another way to drive the point home that Gods law will last forever since Heaven and Earth will never truly cease to exist. As we can confirm in this next verse:

Isaiah 66:22-23
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Notice that this verse takes place in the future, after judgment day, when Heaven and Earth have been recreated. They have not ceased to exist but will continue on for eternity. Also notice the verse boldly states that 'all flesh', not just Jews, will be expected to 'come to worship' before God from one Sabbath to another.

If Colossians 2:16 nailed the Ten Commandments and more precisely the Fourth Commandment Sabbath day to the cross, why is God telling us here that we are expected to keep it forever?

Remember the bible tells us in the New Testament book of Revelation that:

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I’ve seen a few of these discussions regarding the Sabbath. If someone says the Sabbath was nailed to the cross and that makes it null and void, then you can say that a stone tablet can’t be nailed to a cross.

Also, people will quote Colossians 2:16, but you may find the Colossians 2:8 refers to not being taken captive through philosophy, empty deception, and human traditions. The Sabbath is none of the above. Therefore the Sabbath being abolished is a philosophy, not being something actually stated in scripture.