The Rapture

[Deleted member 6]

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

In the Book of Revelation John wrote of things in his real time past, his realtime present and future to the day in which he wrote them.

And the destruction would soon take place as the time was near.

 

[Wordsmith]

And the destruction would soon take place as the time was near.

You acceptor Revelation as being written pre 70 AD and I do not!

 

[armylngst]

The world translated “world” is not kosmos but aion which means “age”.

Some of what is forgotten is this part:
"45 “Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his [aj]master put in charge of his household slaves, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that slave whom his [ak]master finds so doing when he comes. 47 Truly I say to you that he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But if that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My [al]master [am]is not coming for a long time,’ 49 and he begins to beat his fellow slaves, and he eats and drinks with those habitually drunk; 50 then the [an]master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect, and at an hour that he does not know, 51 and he will [ao]cut him in two and assign [ap]him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

So, what needs to happen before Jesus returns? I will answer the question to make it fair. Nothing. Jesus could com ---line disconnected

(sorry, I just felt like being funny.) For pre-millennialists, there are no prophecies left to be fulfilled. We are in a period of God's mercy, as Peter speaks about. God is not slack concerning his promise, but does not wish that any of the elect, any of his adopted children to perish. This is why we are told to watch and wait. It is also the reason for the parable above. We should be occupied with God's business, not screwing around with the world. Not joining in with those drinking and making merry in the days of Noah. Judgment and destruction are swift.

 

[Deleted member 6]

You acceptor Revelation as being written pre 70 AD and I do not!

Soon and near do not mean millennia later no matter how hard you try to make it say they do.

 

[Deleted member 6]

 

[Deleted member 6]

This is not my Bible with highlights, but took a screenshot from somewhere online, I can’t remember where, though. I think this hits the nail on the head.

 

[Wordsmith]

Soon and near do not mean millennia later no matter how hard you try to make it say they do.

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

The writer of 1 John did not believe Jesus returned in 70 AD! Most dating I have found falls between 85 and 110 AD.

 

[Deleted member 6]

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

The writer of 1 John did not believe Jesus returned in 70 AD! Most dating I have found falls between 85 and 110 AD.

You are conflating 1 John with Revelation. Plus, Jesus came in judgment like He did against Egypt, Assyria, Philisitia(sp?), et al. It doesn’t mean He came literally in the cloud, but apocalyptic language was used as a sign of His judgment upon the nations.

 

[Deleted member 6]

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

The writer of 1 John did not believe Jesus returned in 70 AD! Most dating I have found falls between 85 and 110 AD.

Again, no matter how hard you try, soon and near do not even remotely mean millennia later.

 

[Hodgie]

You are conflating 1 John with Revelation. Plus, Jesus came in judgment like He did against Egypt, Assyria, Philisitia(sp?), et al. It doesn’t mean He came literally in the cloud, but apocalyptic language was used as a sign of His judgment upon the nations.

Acts 1:9 "Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight."
He left in a cloud. If he left in a cloud, why can't he come back in a cloud?
By using your understanding, we could say that Acts 1:9 is also apocalyptic writing as well.

 

[Marty]

What "age "ended in 70 AD and where is the returned Jesus? Jesus promised to return. Scripture tells us He will return in the same manner He left and every eye will see. Nowhere does scripture speak of a sneak peak over Jerusalem only visible to that one locality. Claims of unusual sightings in the sky in 70 AD in no way fulfill His promised return. You ignore discussion of the return of Jesus that did not happen in 70 AD, why is that?

It was the end of the temple and sacrificial age the Old Testament age

Revelation is the revelation of Jesus as in who He is and what He did He is God and He ushered in the new covenant.

That’s what revelation is it’s a book of transition for the Old Testament age New Testament age from the earthly Jerusalem to the heavenly Jerusalem

 

[Marty]

The oracle concerning Egypt.

Behold, the LORD is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt; The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence, And the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them.[Isaiah 19:1]

Jesus didn’t literally come on a swift cloud to execute judgment upon Egypt, but this apocalyptic language expressed His coming upon them in judgment.

Yes amen this verse proves it all

 

[Marilyn C]

The City is Both OT,NT Saints hence Heb 11:40

God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

The OT Saints are Heirs of the Same Promise as the NT Heirs,

Heb 11:9

9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise

Heb 1:14

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
Heb 6:17

. 17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

`Something better,` for us. In the Greek that means `greater dominion.

The B/C`s inheritance is Mount Zion, (Ps. 2: 6, Heb. 12: 22, Rev. 3: 21) while the OT saints are in the city. (Heb. 11)

 

[Marty]

It was the end of the temple and sacrificial age the Old Testament age

Revelation is the revelation of Jesus as in who He is and what He did He is God and He ushered in the new covenant.

That’s what revelation is it’s a book of transition form the Old Testament age New Testament age from the earthly Jerusalem to the heavenly Jerusalem

 

[Marty]

You do know that Polycarp was John's disciple right? You also know that he was the Bishop of Smyrna to whom Jesus told John to write the letter in Revelation right? Papias heard John and was also a student of Polycarp. Irenaeus was a student of Polycarp. All three were premillennialists. Ireneaus was the one who said that John wrote Revelation at the end of the reign of Domitian. Eusebius was the one who actually named Domitian. Also, scholarship has shifted to the majority of scholars today believe it was 95 AD. The evidence is direct. For more indirect, consider that Smyrna did not have a church, and that Smyrna was not evangelized until after 61AD. That is according to Polycarp, the Bishop of Smyrna. Consider that Laodicea was mostly destroyed (almost completely) by an earthquake in 60 AD. It took 30 years to rebuild the city. I always pause when it seems that God has created situations in ways that appear to exist simply to frustrate the will of men.

Once again all who aren’t biblical authority. All who were only great humans buts subject to mistakes like Ireneaus thinking that Jesus lived to be 50.

How do you know that John wrote to Polycarp and that he who Jesus told John to write to in revelation that is a huge assumption?

As I said before I have heard many arguments on either side but I go with what the purpose revelation is and history.

 

[Deleted member 6]

Acts 1:9 "Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight."
He left in a cloud. If he left in a cloud, why can't he come back in a cloud?
By using your understanding, we could say that Acts 1:9 is also apocalyptic writing as well.

I’m not saying He didn’t leave in the cloud neither did I say He wouldn’t come again in the cloud (referring to His second advent) . What I am saying is Matthew 24, along with Mark 13 and Luke 22, this is Him coming in judgment against Jerusalem and the temple.

The oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the LORD is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt; The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence, And the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them.[Isaiah 19:1]

Draw near, O nations, to hear; and listen, O peoples! Let the earth and all it contains hear, and the world and all that springs from it. For the LORD’S indignation is against all the nations, And His wrath against all their armies; He has utterly destroyed them, He has given them over to slaughter. So their slain will be thrown out, And their corpses will give off their stench, And the mountains will be drenched with their blood. And all the host of heaven will wear away, And the sky will be rolled up like a scroll; All their hosts will also wither away As a leaf withers from the vine, Or as one withers from the fig tree.[Isaiah 34:1-4]

This is judgment language that is also seen in Revelation. If you read the Olivet Discourse and go through Revelation, they are the same event. Obviously the second advent hasn’t happened yet, but the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled in AD 70.

 

[Deleted member 6]

Acts 1:9 "Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight."
He left in a cloud. If he left in a cloud, why can't he come back in a cloud?
By using your understanding, we could say that Acts 1:9 is also apocalyptic writing as well.

The Day of the LORD

“I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth, Blood, fire and columns of smoke. “The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. “And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD Will be delivered; For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem There will be those who escape, As the LORD has said, Even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.[/i][Joel 2:30-32]

Was the sun literally turned into darkness, was the moon literally turned into blood? And when was this “Day of the LORD”?

‘AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,’ God says, ‘THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS; EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT And they shall prophesy. ‘AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW, BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE. ‘THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME. ‘AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.’[Acts 2:17-21]

This which Peter preached in Acts of the Apostles 2 was not an end time sermon, but a referring to the future destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in AD 70.

 

[armylngst]

Once again all who aren’t biblical authority. All who were only great humans buts subject to mistakes like Ireneaus thinking that Jesus lived to be 50.

How do you know that John wrote to Polycarp and that he who Jesus told John to write to in revelation that is a huge assumption?

As I said before I have heard many arguments on either side but I go with what the purpose revelation is and history.

It is history. Polycarp was the Bishop of Smyrna when John wrote Revelation. That should be general knowledge. He was also a disciple of John.

 

[Wordsmith]

It was the end of the temple and sacrificial age the Old Testament age

In God's plan that all ended on the cross.

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Revelation is the revelation of Jesus as in who He is and what He did He is God and He ushered in the new covenant.

This had all been revealed before Revelation was written.

That’s what revelation is it’s a book of transition for the Old Testament age New Testament age from the earthly Jerusalem to the heavenly Jerusalem

This is what Revelation is:

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

 

[Wordsmith]

Draw near, O nations, to hear; and listen, O peoples! Let the earth and all it contains hear, and the world and all that springs from it. For the LORD’S indignation is against all the nations, And His wrath against all their armies; He has utterly destroyed them, He has given them over to slaughter. So their slain will be thrown out, And their corpses will give off their stench, And the mountains will be drenched with their blood. And all the host of heaven will wear away, And the sky will be rolled up like a scroll; All their hosts will also wither away As a leaf withers from the vine, Or as one withers from the fig tree.[Isaiah 34:1-4]

You are using this out of context! This has nothing to do with 70 AD.

Isaiah 34:10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Jerusalem is not currently lying in waste!