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The Rapture

ReverendRV said:
Now I remember why I don't like to debate Eschatology 😅
Click to expand...
I use to in my youger days- was obssessed with it but now its not that important. His 2nd Coming is important and is Immanent. The moral of the story- be ready at all times for He will come when you least expect Him and if Christians really believed that it would transform their daily lives living for Him with urgency and the proclamation of the gospel.
 
ReverendRV said:
Every once-in-a-while I'll get a wild-hair, and want to study Eschatology again. I'm just going to have to study by myself...
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My son in law and the grandkids came over yesterday for dinner and to pick peaches and nectarines. We got into a discussion on end times, the rapture, millennium etc.... He was asking me lots of questions about the millennium . So I gave him one of my books to read called the meaning of the millennium with the 4 views and rebuttals on each position by the other 3. Its a great book I highly recommend. I bought mine in the 80's.

The Meaning of the Millennium: Four Views: Robert G. Clouse, George Eldon Ladd, Anthony A. Hoekema, Herman A. Lloyt, Loraine Boettner: 9780877847946: Amazon.com: Books

The Meaning of the Millennium: Four Views [Robert G. Clouse, George Eldon Ladd, Anthony A. Hoekema, Herman A. Lloyt, Loraine Boettner] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Meaning of the Millennium: Four Views
www.amazon.com
 
ReverendRV said:
Now I remember why I don't like to debate Eschatology 😅
Click to expand...
It's no different with other topics! Try the gifts of the Spirit, healing ,water baptism what ever topic you may chose debate is always the same. We all for the most part have our minds made up and apart from the Holy Spirit opening our eyes we have a tough time accepting the fact we could be wrong on anything. Thats why we have denominations who are all right (in their own minds).

Debate does sharpen your skills by making you dig a little deeper sometimes.

I have had to change my thinking os some issues over the time of my Christian life but admittedly it did not come through debate on a forum such as this.
 
Wordsmith said:
It's no different with other topics! Try the gifts of the Spirit, healing ,water baptism what ever topic you may chose debate is always the same. We all for the most part have our minds made up and apart from the Holy Spirit opening our eyes we have a tough time accepting the fact we could be wrong on anything. Thats why we have denominations who are all right (in their own minds).

Debate does sharpen your skills by making you dig a little deeper sometimes.

I have had to change my thinking os some issues over the time of my Christian life but admittedly it did not come through debate on a forum such as this.
Click to expand...
My problem isn't so much a Presupposition, as it is a Postsupposition. My Home Church taught me Eschatology; they taught me Amillenialism. Sure, now I had a Presupposition. But later my Pastor said, "We now are Partial Amillenialists, Partial Preterists". Partial Preterism was now my Postsupposition. I liked Partial Preterism SO much, it ruined Eschatology for me. I got to the point, I reccomended to people, "If you like Eschatology, never study Partial Preterism"...
 
ReverendRV said:
My problem isn't so much a Presupposition, as it is a Postsupposition. My Home Church taught me Eschatology; they taught me Amillenialism. Sure, now I had a Presupposition. But later my Pastor said, "We now are Partial Amillenialists, Partial Preterists". Partial Preterism was now my Postsupposition. I liked Partial Preterism SO much, it ruined Eschatology for me. I got to the point, I reccomended to people, "If you like Eschatology, never study Partial Preterism"...
Click to expand...
So you hold the view that Christ already judge satan and He is currently bound and not at work in this world at this time and that we are currently in the millennium and the great tribulation is history from the 1st century and Christs 2nd Coming happened in the 1st Century ?
 
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Wordsmith said:
You are using this out of context! This has nothing to do with 70 AD.

Isaiah 34:10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Jerusalem is not currently lying in waste!
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I never said Isaiah 34 had anything to do with Jerusalem. What I said was it uses the same judgment language that was used in the Olivet Discourse and Revelation. You need to try to keep up with what I’m saying. In your zeal to prove me wrong, you reading into my posts what I never posited.
 
civic said:
My son in law and the grandkids came over yesterday for dinner and to pick peaches and nectarines. We got into a discussion on end times, the rapture, millennium etc.... He was asking me lots of questions about the millennium . So I gave him one of my books to read called the meaning of the millennium with the 4 views and rebuttals on each position by the other 3. Its a great book I highly recommend. I bought mine in the 80's.

The Meaning of the Millennium: Four Views: Robert G. Clouse, George Eldon Ladd, Anthony A. Hoekema, Herman A. Lloyt, Loraine Boettner: 9780877847946: Amazon.com: Books

The Meaning of the Millennium: Four Views [Robert G. Clouse, George Eldon Ladd, Anthony A. Hoekema, Herman A. Lloyt, Loraine Boettner] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Meaning of the Millennium: Four Views
www.amazon.com
Click to expand...
I have this one and it’s a dandy.

Revelation: Four Views: A Parallel Commentary: Steve Gregg: 9780840721280: Amazon.com: Books

Revelation: Four Views: A Parallel Commentary [Steve Gregg] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Revelation: Four Views: A Parallel Commentary
www.amazon.com
 
civic said:
So you hold the view that Christ already judge satan and He is currently bound and not at work in this world at this time and that we are currently in the millennium and the great tribulation is history from the 1st century ?
Click to expand...
Oh, I believe satan is at work; my Life needs him for me to explain the Bizarre...
 
Let me start reading these two Links. I'll slow down on Posting for a while...
 
civic said:
So you hold the view that Christ already judge satan and He is currently bound and not at work in this world at this time and that we are currently in the millennium and the great tribulation is history from the 1st century and Christs 2nd Coming happened in the 1st Century ?
Click to expand...
I sure don't. I believe Satan is bound (symbolically speaking) so the gospel can do its work in all nations. And he roams around as a roaring lion.
But this lion is God's pawn as Luther said, "he is God's devil."
Just my two cents bro. :)
 
Wordsmith said:
You are using this out of context! This has nothing to do with 70 AD.

Isaiah 34:10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.

Jerusalem is not currently lying in waste!
Click to expand...
Here is that exact, and intact, post I posted you’ve taken out of context…

=========================================
I’m not saying He didn’t leave in the cloud neither did I say He wouldn’t come again in the cloud (referring to His second advent). What I am saying is Matthew 24, along with Mark 13 and Luke 22, this is Him coming in judgment against Jerusalem and the temple.

The oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the LORD is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt; The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence, And the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them.[Isaiah 19:1]

Draw near, O nations, to hear; and listen, O peoples! Let the earth and all it contains hear, and the world and all that springs from it. For the LORD’S indignation is against all the nations, And His wrath against all their armies; He has utterly destroyed them, He has given them over to slaughter. So their slain will be thrown out, And their corpses will give off their stench, And the mountains will be drenched with their blood. And all the host of heaven will wear away, And the sky will be rolled up like a scroll; All their hosts will also wither away As a leaf withers from the vine, Or as one withers from the fig tree.[Isaiah 34:1-4]

This is judgment language that is also seen in Revelation. If you read the Olivet Discourse and go through Revelation, they are the same event. Obviously the second advent hasn’t happened yet, but the Olivet Discourse was fulfilled in AD 70.
===========================================================


When the original readers of Revelation read it, the language used, they would recognize as judgment language that they read throughout the OT. The scroll rolling up in Revelation was used in Isaiah 34 and is not to be taken as literally occurring. The sky didn’t roll up in Isaiah 34, neither did it in Revelation 6:14, in AD 70. :)
 
Carbon said:
I sure don't. I believe Satan is bound (symbolically speaking) so the gospel can do its work in all nations. And he roams around as a roaring lion.
But this lion is God's pawn as Luther said, "he is God's devil."
Just my two cents bro. :)
Click to expand...
Yeah; the, "satan on a long chain" kind of thing. But a chain isn't a Sealed Bottomless Pit...

I have a lot to figure out...
 
I'm about to read this...

www.blueletterbible.org

Four Views on the Millennium - Study Resources

Four Views on the Millennium includes The Views; Dispensational Premillennialism; Historical Premillennialism; Postmillennialism; Amillennialism and Conclusion
www.blueletterbible.org www.blueletterbible.org

After I read it, I may add it to my Thread about an Introduction to Eschatology...
 
I think Riddlebarger in A Case for Amillenialsim, does a good honest and balanced job of looking at the various positions.
He is quite thorough, IMO.
 
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