The Rapture/Resurrection of the Church is near.

[Mr GLee]

Sorry, but I believe Christ's own words instead, as found in Matthew 16:27-28. He predicted He would return while some of those He was speaking to were still alive. It was that first-century generation who were told to look up, because their redemption was drawing nigh. As far as we are concerned, the next time Christ returns will be far, far down the road for us.

I would offer context matters.

Peter in false pride rebuked the unseen head Christ and forbid Jesus the Son of man from doing the will of the father .

The father of lies having no form tried to deceive all the nations of the whole world through Peter as a false prophet that God is a Jewish man as King of kings.


Mathew 16:22-28 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his messengers (apostle) and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

They were shown the glory, six days later a continuation if chapter 16

Mathew17;1-7 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

In that parable the Lord uses moses and elias to represnt the law and prohets (sola scriotura

 

[CrowCross]

No, I don't know. I only have your statement that there is a pre-trib rapture, which is also a pre-mil rapture in Dispensationalism. I have not seen any exegeted evidence given by you that there is.

I have not seen any exegeted evidence given by you that there isn't.

My post presents evidence of us entering into what is often called the end times. The bible tells us christians will not destined for this wrath.

 

[3 Resurrections]

They saw him coming in his kingdom before he even left? He would first have to leave before he returned. And since he had not yet left, they were only given a glimpse of him coming in his kingdom. They saw only three. When he actually does come it will be with much more than three.

That's not what I wrote. I wrote that Christ said He would return with angels in the glory of His Father to give rewards to everyone according to their works while some of those people in front of Him were still alive (Matt. 16:27-28 and Mark 9:1). This wasn't just three disciples being spoken to. It was a group of Jewish people along with Christ's disciples that Christ was then addressing in Mark 8:34-9:1. Some of that crowd of Jewish people Christ said would still be alive at His second coming when He returned with angels, to dispense rewards to all according to their works.

It sounds as if you, along with many others, are mistakenly applying this predicted return of Christ with the angels to give out rewards to the Mount of Transfiguration where only three disciples saw that vision. In Matt. 16:27-28 and Mark 9:1, Christ was not predicting just a "glimpse" of His coming. He was predicting His actual second coming bodily return while some of those Jewish people were still alive in that first-century generation.

Get back to us when you have historically shown this has happened.

So you don't believe Christ's own words testifying to His first-century bodily return while some of those He was speaking to were still alive? That's too bad. There will always be a "doubting Thomas" among the believers. This doesn't affect your salvation status, but it leaves you without the comfort that Christ always does what He says He is going to do in the time frame in which He promised to do it.

 

[Arial]

I have not seen any exegeted evidence given by you that there isn't.

My post presents evidence of us entering into what is often called the end times. The bible tells us christians will not destined for this wrath.

Or you didn't accept it? I may not in responding to these nuggets (except maybe in the first one which you deemed going off topic.) But I certainly have in the past and other places. In any case it is your OP and your title asserts a rapture, therefore it is on you to demonstrate exegetically that there is one. So I will just ask a question. Does what you put forth as fact remain consistent with Gen 3 and the promise of a Seed that would crush the serpent's head and the fulfillment of that promise in Rev 21:1-6 stay biblical consistent with that purpose of Jesus?

 

[Arial]

You seem to write it off as simply as the Jews wrote of Jesus as being their messiah 2,000 years ago.

Could you repeat that in an understandable way? Thanks.

 

[3 Resurrections]

They were shown the glory, six days later a continuation if chapter 16

You are falling for the typical misunderstanding of this Matthew 16:27-28 text. Christ did not come in the glory of His Father on the Mount of Transfiguration, because He had never even left this planet yet at that point. Neither did He come with angels on the Mount (ten thousands of His saints, as Jude 14 testified), and neither did He dispense rewards to everyone according to their works on the Mount of Transfiguration.

You are entirely missing the plain intent of this Matthew 16:27-28 text.

 

[Arial]

It's more than Jesus sudden coming. We know the days of Noah will not be like the end of the tribulation. This strongly represents a pre-trib rapture.

You didn't answer the question. Instead you gave your belief as the interpretation, related the days of Noah as not being like the end of a not yet established seven year tribulation, and I don't even know why you did that or how it relates to anything that I said.

 

[Arial]

Is this the treaty? Who knows...but the bible speaks of such a treaty. The current Abrahamic Accord is probably not the final draft.

Well all the last predictions of being THE treaty failed so maybe this one will be the one. (You do know that is the definition of insanity right?)

Does God tell us in his word that if a prophecy is made and it does not come to pass, that is a false prophet? There isn't even any accountability to the Bible in Dispensationalism. I'll let you read from the book what God thinks of false prophets and what their end will be.

 

[Arial]

God will not abide in that temple.

Then what is the purpose of the temple?

 

[CrowCross]

That's not what I wrote. I wrote that Christ said He would return with angels in the glory of His Father to give rewards to everyone according to their works while some of those people in front of Him were still alive (Matt. 16:27-28 and Mark 9:1).

With all due respect....there is no recorded historical event that has shown this to have happened. So, either Jesus lied and the bible is in error...you've interpreted the meaning wrong...or "this" generation is future.

 

[Arial]

Yes, since the 70's and even earlier. The "movement" has been gaining steam so to speak and gaining in popularity with many people. In fact the UN meets this month in NY to discuss this topic and how to roll it out and implement the next step.

Oh I see. If the prophecy fails, don't acknowledge the failure, just kick the can down the road. Even if it takes a few more centuries or longer.

 

[CrowCross]

Then what is the purpose of the temple?

The purpose of the temple is for Jewish worship...the anti-christ will also stand in the future temple and declare himself as God.

 

[CrowCross]

You didn't answer the question. Instead you gave your belief as the interpretation, related the days of Noah as not being like the end of a not yet established seven year tribulation, and I don't even know why you did that or how it relates to anything that I said.

Because the subject of the days of Noah isn't just about the suddenness of Jesus coming.

 

[CrowCross]

Well all the last predictions of being THE treaty failed so maybe this one will be the one. (You do know that is the definition of insanity right?)

Does God tell us in his word that if a prophecy is made and it does not come to pass, that is a false prophet? There isn't even any accountability to the Bible in Dispensationalism. I'll let you read from the book what God thinks of false prophets and what their end will be.

It's in the news just about everyday.(this is from today) It might not be talked about directly or presented the same way every time...but it's there.

 

[Arial]

The bible presents the end times in this fashion.

It is not the timing of the end that is presented by the gospel going to all nations. It is what will be done with the gospel until the end, or more likely until Satan no longer restrained concerning deceiving the nations. And even after that is for a short time, and the time period of "short" is not given.

 

[CrowCross]

It is not the timing of the end that is presented by the gospel going to all nations. It is what will be done with the gospel until the end, or more likely until Satan no longer restrained concerning deceiving the nations. And even after that is for a short time, and the time period of "short" is not given.

I believe the restrainer is the christians who are raptured or the Holy Spirit who is removed...and the christians go with Him considering they have the Holy Spirit indwelling them. There are other opinions.

2 Thes 2"7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.

 

[Mr GLee]

You are falling for the typical misunderstanding of this Matthew 16:27-28 text. Christ did not come in the glory of His Father on the Mount of Transfiguration, because He had never even left this planet yet at that point. Neither did He come with angels on the Mount (ten thousands of His saints, as Jude 14 testified), and neither did He dispense rewards to everyone according to their works on the Mount of Transfiguration.

You are entirely missing the plain intent of this Matthew 16:27-28 text.

Christ is the father the invisible head

Some did know Christ the Holy Spirit that powerfully worked in the Son of man, Jesus. When he died and disappeared, mankind could not know him any more forever more

.There was one three days and night demonstration of the Lamb slain from the foundation the 6 days Christ worked was all that was propmised

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

 

[Arial]

1 Thes 4. have you ever read it? There is also 1 Cor 15.

In fact I quoted them early in the thread. So when I consider the entire story of redemption in all its historical and spiritual aspects, not the least of which what Jesus came to do, I find those passages are speaking of his second coming which is accompanied by the resurrection of the dead in Christ and the transforming of those alive in Christ. I don't see anything that follows that such as seven years of tribulation, followed by a thousand year corporal reign of Jesus in a corporal world among corporal people mixed with what would have to be in that case, uncorporal people. Followed by sinners starting a war against Israel, followed by the judgement of the wicked. Reading Rev chronologically we would also have a beast thrown into the pit and destroyed twice.

Given all that which is utterly inconsistent with Scripture, I see the being caught up as His people joining him in the air to return with him in celebration of the victorious King. A parallel of the OT shadow of the people of the king following behind him celebrating his victory.

 

[3 Resurrections]

With all due respect....there is no recorded historical event that has shown this to have happened. So, either Jesus lied and the bible is in error...you've interpreted the meaning wrong...or "this" generation is future.

Also with all due respect, if you deny that Christ returned in that first century while some of those people He was speaking to were still alive (as He clearly said in Matthew 16:27-28 and Mark 9:1), then you are essentially accusing Christ of lying, or you are saying the Bible is in error. When you demand proof of this in some written document after the fact, you then become a "doubting Thomas" who would not believe until he thrust his own hand into the wound in Christ's side.

And actually, there are archaeological evidences that Christ did return to the Mount of Olives in AD 70. As well as historical proof of the very day in which this occurred, as predicted by Daniel's 1,335th day in Dan. 12:11-13.

 

[Arial]

I believe the restrainer is the christians who are raptured or the Holy Spirit who is removed...and the christians go with Him considering they have the Holy Spirit indwelling them. There are other opinions.

2 Thes 2"7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.

What you believe is irrelevant to the conversation.