Thanks, but that is not an answer to the questions asked. I did not ask if you'd heard the "Darby argument" before. I asked if you know Dispensationalism was invented in the 19th century. I am trying to ask some very simple and basic questions in hopes of getting some equally simple and basic answers so that you and I understand one another.
- Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism was literally invented in the 19th century?
- Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism is an eschatological position that is not held by most of Christendom?
The short answer to that question relative to the specified subject of this op is that DPism teaches bad soteriology.
The fuller, lengthier, more substantive answer to that question will take multiple posts that are very lengthy. Entire books have been written about the problems with Dispensational Premillennialism. I have written six separate ops on some of the many, many, many, many, many problems with Dispensational Premillennialism
HERE,
HERE,
HERE,
HERE,
HERE, and
HERE. Most DPers have avoided those ops like they were a plague. I invite you to read them and respond as you feel led. Do it there so we do not muck up this op. We can discuss the problem(s) cited in each op in the corresponding thread.
Write now we're supposed to be discussing "the process of creation and redemption," and doing so based on the graphics you have provided in support of your Dispensational Premillennialist viewpoint. I will, therefore, limit my answer to
your question to
that context, and I am going to answer your question as a show of goodwill and good faith even though I did not receive an answer to the questions I asked.
Fundamentally,
Dispensational Premillennialism (DPism) is irreconcilable with historic orthodox Christianity. If Dpism is true and correct then two
millennia of Christian thought, doctrine, and practice is not true or correct. This presents an enormous paradox because if Christianity has not been correct for the last 2000 years..... how then can Dispensational Premillennialism be called Christian?
More specific to this op's topic of creation and redemption.....
Dispensationalism teaches two different means of redemption and salvation..... and the leaders within DPism are not honest about that fact. Dispensationalists deny what I just said, and they write defenses for their beliefs in an effort to prove otherwise but they lie when they do so. One of THE most basic tenets in DPism is the premise of two peoples. Dispensational Premillennialism teaches God has two peoples, not one, the Jews of Israel and the Christians of the Church, and each has a separate purpose. One group of people, Israel or the Jews, will have to go through a series of events Dispensationalism teaches they must go through. The nation of Israel must be restored. The nation must regain all its original land originally promised to them by God. They must re-establish the Levitical priesthood, and re-institute animal sacrifices. They must also rebuild the temple. All of these events are necessarily tied (in DPism) to the return of Jesus, the establishment of his earthly kingdom, and the bringing of Israel to salvation in Christ.
The problem is that those are all works!
Dispensational Premillennialism, therefore, teaches two paths to redemption and salvation, one path for Israel and another for the Church. In other words, DPists do believe in a salvation by grace through faith soteriology BUT they
also believe in a salvation by grace+works through faith for the Jew soteriology.
This is apparent to anyone who actually studies Dispensational Premillennialist teachings. Even more apparent when those teachings are compared to scripture with a Spirit-led understanding of God's word. You say that is what you base your understanding upon. I am relying on that to be true.
No orthodox Christian in the entire history of Christianity has ever believed any of those DPists teachings. This chart
HERE was made by a Dispensational Premillennialist. Look at it. Look at the second to last row. The chart shows only DPism thinks modern Israel is relevant to Christian eschatology. No one but DPism teaches that! If what Dispensationalism teaches is true then everything Christians have been believing contrary to DPism has been a lie. Both cannot be true at the same time. Redemption and salvation cannot be by grace alone
and also by works.
And the real rub is that the leaders of DPism are not honest about this. They will say they believe in salvation by grace through faith (and many of them are soteriological monergists in that regard) but what they do not do is explain how building a temple is not works, or why it is the temple must be built first. They skip over that problem is silence. It is called
a lie of omission.
Despite the length of what I just said, much, much more could said about this problem inherent in DPism. There is, however, no need for defensiveness. I and most of the other non-DPers here in this forum used to be Dispensational Premillennialists. I've read much of what Thomas Ice has written. I've read Darby, Scofield, Chafer, Ryre, Walvoord, Ice, Vlach, Watson and many others. I got so frustrated when I was first confronted with the problems inherent in DPism that I work vociferously to prove the critics wrong. Years of study brought me to reality: DPism is hugely inconsistent within itself AND with God's word, and it can be maintained only by an eisegetic reading of scripture.
But that is too much information to cover in a single post, so I tried asking you a few very simple, basic questions and the conversation broke down within three inquiries. I do not believe for a second that came from the Holy Spirit. God wants us both to have answers to these questions and provide an explanation for what we believe
when asked.
I have answered your question. Will you now answer mine?
- Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism was literally invented in the 19th century?
- Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism is an eschatological position that is not held by most of Christendom?
I'll ask them one or two at a time, keep them simple and build from their based on your answers. I will also provide parity. You ask me one or two basic (op-relevant) questions and I will gladly answer them.