The Process of Creation and Redemption

[CrowCross]

No, it is not a false statement. I can prove Dispensationalism was invented in the 19th century and you should be mindful of Proverbs 26:17. @Jarhead4Jesus can and should answer my questions asked specifically of him for himself. When I want to know your answers to my questions then I will ask you and you already have a bad record of avoiding answers when asked valid relevant questions. Jarhead is quite capable of speaking for himself and articulating his own views. He does not need your interference. If you would like to take up the history of Dispensational Premillennialism with me then start an op and PM me. I will gladly post a reply.

From Wiki:

"Dispensational premillennialism generally holds that Israel and the Church are distinct entities. It also widely holds to the pretribulational return of Christ, which believes that Jesus will return to take up Christians into heaven by means of a rapture immediately before a seven-year worldwide tribulation. This will be followed by an additional return of Christ with his saints (though there are post tribulation dispensationalists, such as Robert Gundry).​

​

Dispensationalism traces its roots to the 1830s and John Nelson Darby (1800–1882), an Anglican churchman and an early leader of the Plymouth Brethren. In the US, the dispensational form of premillennialism was propagated on the popular level largely through the Scofield Reference Bible and on the academic level with Lewis Sperry Chafer's eight-volume Systematic Theology."​

The roots of DPism are traced to the 1830s and John Darby. The dispensational form of premillennialism was propagated by Scofield and Chafer (the founder of Dallas Theological Seminary). I can quote Chafer, Ryrie, Walvoord, Ice, Vlach, and many other leading Dispensational Premillennialists in their own words self-attributing the origins of Dispensational Premillennialism to the 19th century. Dispensationalists try to obfuscate the truth by arguing writing about dispensations and writings about premillennial viewpoints preceded Darby but that is not the same thing as Dispensational Premillennialism. Men bent metal into shields as early the Bronze Age and the first steam engine was made in 1698. That does not mean modern automobiles existed in the 1700s. Dispensationalists (like William Watson) who make such arguments misrepresent the facts to deceive others into believing their modern man-made doctrines. Dispensational Premillennialism teaches a completely different from of premillennialism than that which has ever been held in Christendom historically. Dispensational Premillennialism was invented in the 19th century.





Dispensational Premillennialism was invented in the 19th century, and I am simply asking @Jarhead4Jesus, not you, if he is aware of that fact, and whether he is aware it is not the prominent eschatology held in Christendom. He can answer those two questions for himself without any fact-denying help from you.

You said...."No, it is not a false statement." I say it is. Here's an article from Liberty University ....The Rapture In History and Prophecy by Thomas Ice you can look over.
I'd cut and paste it but the site doesn't seem to let me do that.

It shows the concept was believed long before Darby. Now, perhaps the term "dispensation" is new...or perhaps Darby popularized it in recent times, but the concept isn't.

This is why I have asked you not to present your claims as "fact"....as it isn't.

 

[Josheb]

You said...."No, it is not a false statement." I say it is. Here's an article from Liberty University ....The Rapture In History and Prophecy by Thomas Ice you can look over.
I'd cut and paste it but the site doesn't seem to let me do that.

It shows the concept was believed long before Darby. Now, perhaps the term "dispensation" is new...or perhaps Darby popularized it in recent times, but the concept isn't.

This is why I have asked you not to present your claims as "fact"....as it isn't.

Ugh!

I did not ask about the rapture. The specifics of the question were ignored and the goalposts moved to argue something not mentioned, and an appeal was made to a biased in-house source in the attempt to prove something never mentioned AND that was done so in exactly the same obfuscating way I previously described. I specifically asked @Jarhead4Jesus about Dispensational Premillennialism, not the rapture. All Christians believe in a rapture, but they do not all believe in the Dispensational Premillennial view of the rapture.

The article concludes,

"Even though my Reformed friend thought the concept of a rapture was odd. I don’t think that the concept of a rapture is such a strange event for those who have an understanding of biblical events. Regardless of what others may think, I am going to let the Bible inform me of what is possible and what the future holds. That’s why I am constantly looking for our Lord’s any-moment return. Maranatha"​

Good for Mr. Vlach, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what I asked the other poster, he practiced the exact obfuscation I posted about, and you're practicing a conversation corrupting bait and switch by replacing "Dispensational Premillennialism" with "the rapture." No one asked anything about any rapture. Vlach just lie to you, me, and every single one of his readers (because he seeks to justify his DPism with a false-cause fallacy) and you think that proves something when it does not. The existence of rapturism does not prove DPism correct. The two are not synonymous. DPism holds a view of the rapture that is entirely different than all the other eschatologies. DPism's view stands alone. They separate the rapture from the final coming and they alone read scripture that way. NO ONE ELSE DOES THAT. That point of view began in the 19th century with Dispensational Premillennialism (and Vlach did not prove otherwise). I have provided documentation to that effect* numerous times AND done so specifically with you. Which means the specifics of the original inquiry was ignored, the specifics of our past exchanges was ignored, and the specifics of Vlach's article was ignored all so as imple exchange between two other posters could be interfered with.





And this, in turn, gets to another HUGE problem within Dispensationalism because it proves impossible to have an intelligent, cogent conversation with a Dispensationalist simply because they will not focus on any one matter. They will not answer the simplest of questions when asked and they constantly move from topic to topic to topic endlessly moving the goals posts and never resolving anything while the go about hijacking everyone else's ops to suit their own agenda. It's the sort of thing Dispensationalists should take to God and ask, "Why do I continue to do that, Father?"

For right now, I would simply like to know @Jarhead4Jesus' answers to the questions asked @Jarhead4Jesus as asked in Post 18. I am accordingly, asking you not to interfere with that exchange by posting falsehoods, non sequiturs, goalpost moves, and fallacious arguments by others that have nothing to do with the questions asked (and try real hard not to hijack Jar's op with your agenda).






* That chart was made by a Dispensational Premillennialist, not a critic.
.

 

[Mr GLee]

No, it is not. It's a man-made invention that radically departs from scripture.

Take, for example, the fact that Jesus explicitly stated to his disciples, "You will be delivered to tribulation," and then later in the same teaching told them, "...pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath. For then there will be a great tribulation..." What Jesus did NOT state was, "The Christians living two millennia from now will be delivered to tribulation," or "Christians living in the twenty-first century won't need to worry about their flight because they'll have already been raptured off the planet."

There is nothing prophetic about that timeline.

No sign was given to wonder after. Believers have prophecy till the end of time. No need to wonder?????

I would offer look to the subject matter. Exposing false prophets using oral traditons of dying mankind to make sola scriptura without effect

Warning the believer beforehand before declaring the curse to those who would add or subtract from the perfect with lying signs as wonders .wonders winders .Coming from the king of lying sign to wonder after as if true prophecy

The cause of the fall neither shall you touch .

Flight winter or sabbath .In season or out of season .not a time line.

It began when the vail was rent the reformation had come. There was no Jewish man as king of kings siting in abomination of desolation temples of men, what mankind called the holy of holies .

Satan fell and could no longer deceive all the nations of he world that God is dying mankind A great tribulation for the outward Jew that was trusting thier dying flesh could profit one like never before or ever again .A great joy for all the nations of the world . The walls of deception came tumbling down


Mathew 24:20-25 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.Behold, I have told you before.Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.


Revelation 20 King James VersionAnd I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

He will be released to again attempt to make all things written in the law and Prophets (sola scriptura) of no spiritual value. The value of faith . . . .Christ's labor of love.

 

[Josheb]

You, @Jarhead4Jesus, hold end times views that fall within what is called Dispensational Premillennialism. Are you aware of that?

I do indeed.

I appreciate the direct, immediate, and succinct answer. Thank you very much.

• Are you aware Dispensational Premillennialism was literally invented in the 19th century?
• Despite its current popularity among a large number of Christians, are you aware it is an eschatological position that is not held by most of Christendom?

?

bump for @Jarhead4Jesus

You're views that are Dispensational Premillennialist and you know it.

• Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism was literally invented in the 19th century?
• Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism is an eschatological position that is not held by most of Christendom?

?

 

[CrowCross]

I did not ask about the rapture.

The rapture is a HUGE part of it......you said it began with Darby. I showed you it wasn't.

Will you admit that?

 

[Josheb]

I did not ask about the rapture

The rapture is a HUGE part of it......you said it began with Darby. I showed you it wasn't.

Will you admit that?

The rapture is a HUGE part of it......you said it began with Darby. I showed you it wasn't.

Will you admit that?

I did not ask about the rapture...... and you should admit that...... and then move on.


This op is about "the process of creation and redemption," and the author of this op has provided two graphics to use in that discussion. Neither of them mentions any rapture! I am sure the author shares your view of the rapture, but that is NOT the subject of this discussion. He has indicated this in Post 13.

And no, I do not admit the rapture is a HUGE part of Dispensational Premillennialism. It is simply one aspect among many within Dispensationalism and, although it is an aspect where DPism departs from all other Christian eschatologies, it is not the most important point, or a point settled on with DPism. Nothing was proven with the Vlach article other than the deceit and lack of logic with which a leading DPist employees to justify his viewpoint.

So please either contribute op-relevantly or don't expect me to reply further to your posts.

 

[CrowCross]

I did not ask about the rapture...... and you should admit that...... and then move on.


This op is about "the process of creation and redemption," and the author of this op has provided two graphics to use in that discussion. Neither of them mentions any rapture! I am sure the author shares your view of the rapture, but that is NOT the subject of this discussion. He has indicated this in Post 13.

And no, I do not admit the rapture is a HUGE part of Dispensational Premillennialism. It is simply one aspect among many within Dispensationalism and, although it is an aspect where DPism departs from all other Christian eschatologies, it is not the most important point, or a point settled on with DPism. Nothing was proven with the Vlach article other than the deceit and lack of logic with which a leading DPist employees to justify his viewpoint.

So please either contribute op-relevantly or don't expect me to reply further to your posts.

Why do you get so pissed off when someone disagrees with your view?

If you don't want to believe in a pre-trib rapture....have at it.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

No, it is not a false statement. I can prove Dispensationalism was invented in the 19th century and you should be mindful of Proverbs 26:17. @Jarhead4Jesus can and should answer my questions asked specifically of him for himself. When I want to know your answers to my questions then I will ask you and you already have a bad record of avoiding answers when asked valid relevant questions. Jarhead is quite capable of speaking for himself and articulating his own views. He does not need your interference. If you would like to take up the history of Dispensational Premillennialism with me then start an op and PM me. I will gladly post a reply.

From Wiki:

"Dispensational premillennialism generally holds that Israel and the Church are distinct entities. It also widely holds to the pretribulational return of Christ, which believes that Jesus will return to take up Christians into heaven by means of a rapture immediately before a seven-year worldwide tribulation. This will be followed by an additional return of Christ with his saints (though there are post tribulation dispensationalists, such as Robert Gundry).​

​

Dispensationalism traces its roots to the 1830s and John Nelson Darby (1800–1882), an Anglican churchman and an early leader of the Plymouth Brethren. In the US, the dispensational form of premillennialism was propagated on the popular level largely through the Scofield Reference Bible and on the academic level with Lewis Sperry Chafer's eight-volume Systematic Theology."​

The roots of DPism are traced to the 1830s and John Darby. The dispensational form of premillennialism was propagated by Scofield and Chafer (the founder of Dallas Theological Seminary). I can quote Chafer, Ryrie, Walvoord, Ice, Vlach, and many other leading Dispensational Premillennialists in their own words self-attributing the origins of Dispensational Premillennialism to the 19th century. Dispensationalists try to obfuscate the truth by arguing writing about dispensations and writings about premillennial viewpoints preceded Darby but that is not the same thing as Dispensational Premillennialism. Men bent metal into shields as early the Bronze Age and the first steam engine was made in 1698. That does not mean modern automobiles existed in the 1700s. Dispensationalists (like William Watson) who make such arguments misrepresent the facts to deceive others into believing their modern man-made doctrines. Dispensational Premillennialism teaches a completely different from of premillennialism than that which has ever been held in Christendom historically. Dispensational Premillennialism was invented in the 19th century.





Dispensational Premillennialism was invented in the 19th century, and I am simply asking @Jarhead4Jesus, not you, if he is aware of that fact, and whether he is aware it is not the prominent eschatology held in Christendom. He can answer those two questions for himself without any fact-denying help from you.

I've heard the Darby argument before, regardless, my understanding comes from reading scripture for myself, and communing with the Holy Spirit for truth and meaning.

What is it about the so labeled, 'Dispensational Premillennialism' that you disagree with exactly?

The 'End of these wonders' prophecy of Daniel 12
The 70-Weeks prophecy of Daniel 9
The 'After two-days' prophecy of Hosea 5:15-6:2
The pre-Tribulation Rapture
The (literal) Millennial Kingdom of Revelation 20
The Great White Throne Judgement of Revelation 20

This file may help you with my understanding of scripture as it pertains to the biblical timeline.

 

[CrowCross]

I've heard the Darby argument before, regardless, my understanding comes from reading scripture for myself, and communing with the Holy Spirit for truth and meaning.

What is it about the so labeled, 'Dispensational Premillennialism' that you disagree with exactly?

The 'End of these wonders' prophecy of Daniel 12
The 70-Weeks prophecy of Daniel 9
The 'After two-days' prophecy of Hosea 5:15-6:2
The pre-Tribulation Rapture
The (literal) Millennial Kingdom of Revelation 20
The Great White Throne Judgement of Revelation 20

This file may help you with my understanding of scripture as it pertains to the biblical timeline.

What year does 6031 equate to on the modern calendar we currently use?

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

6031 is mostly 2030, due to the difference between the three calendar new years.

The Biblical calendar starts on Nissan 1 (Abib 1)
The modern Jewish calendar starts on Tishrei 1 - 7th month
The Gregorian calendar begins (mostly) in Teves (Chisleu) - 10th month

The chart is located at: https://7049biblicaltimelineresearch.org > Charts & Diagrams

 

[CrowCross]

6031 is mostly 2030, due to the difference between the three calendar new years.

The Biblical calendar starts on Nissan 1 (Abib 1)
The modern Jewish calendar starts on Tishrei 1 - 7th month
The Gregorian calendar begins (mostly) in Teves (Chisleu) - 10th month

The chart is located at: 7049 Biblical Timeline Research > Charts & Diagrams

When is the rapture? Your chat didn't seem to place it anywhere.

 

[Jarhead4Jesus]

The rapture will occur when 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 comes to pass.

If you're interested in seeing the rapture's most likely position on the biblical timeline, then take a look at these files:

7049 Biblical Timeline Research > Biblical Timelines > Biblical Timeline - Linear
7049 Biblical Timeline Research > Biblical Timelines > Modern State of Israel Timeline - Monthly
7049 Biblical Timeline Research > Articles > The Fall Feasts and the Return of Christ

 

[Josheb]

I've heard the Darby argument before, regardless, my understanding comes from reading scripture for myself, and communing with the Holy Spirit for truth and meaning.

Thanks, but that is not an answer to the questions asked. I did not ask if you'd heard the "Darby argument" before. I asked if you know Dispensationalism was invented in the 19th century. I am trying to ask some very simple and basic questions in hopes of getting some equally simple and basic answers so that you and I understand one another.

• Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism was literally invented in the 19th century?
• Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism is an eschatological position that is not held by most of Christendom?

What is it about the so labeled, 'Dispensational Premillennialism' that you disagree with exactly?

The short answer to that question relative to the specified subject of this op is that DPism teaches bad soteriology.

The fuller, lengthier, more substantive answer to that question will take multiple posts that are very lengthy. Entire books have been written about the problems with Dispensational Premillennialism. I have written six separate ops on some of the many, many, many, many, many problems with Dispensational Premillennialism HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, and HERE. Most DPers have avoided those ops like they were a plague. I invite you to read them and respond as you feel led. Do it there so we do not muck up this op. We can discuss the problem(s) cited in each op in the corresponding thread.

Write now we're supposed to be discussing "the process of creation and redemption," and doing so based on the graphics you have provided in support of your Dispensational Premillennialist viewpoint. I will, therefore, limit my answer to your question to that context, and I am going to answer your question as a show of goodwill and good faith even though I did not receive an answer to the questions I asked.

Fundamentally, Dispensational Premillennialism (DPism) is irreconcilable with historic orthodox Christianity. If Dpism is true and correct then two millennia of Christian thought, doctrine, and practice is not true or correct. This presents an enormous paradox because if Christianity has not been correct for the last 2000 years..... how then can Dispensational Premillennialism be called Christian?

More specific to this op's topic of creation and redemption..... Dispensationalism teaches two different means of redemption and salvation..... and the leaders within DPism are not honest about that fact. Dispensationalists deny what I just said, and they write defenses for their beliefs in an effort to prove otherwise but they lie when they do so. One of THE most basic tenets in DPism is the premise of two peoples. Dispensational Premillennialism teaches God has two peoples, not one, the Jews of Israel and the Christians of the Church, and each has a separate purpose. One group of people, Israel or the Jews, will have to go through a series of events Dispensationalism teaches they must go through. The nation of Israel must be restored. The nation must regain all its original land originally promised to them by God. They must re-establish the Levitical priesthood, and re-institute animal sacrifices. They must also rebuild the temple. All of these events are necessarily tied (in DPism) to the return of Jesus, the establishment of his earthly kingdom, and the bringing of Israel to salvation in Christ.

The problem is that those are all works!

Dispensational Premillennialism, therefore, teaches two paths to redemption and salvation, one path for Israel and another for the Church. In other words, DPists do believe in a salvation by grace through faith soteriology BUT they also believe in a salvation by grace+works through faith for the Jew soteriology.

This is apparent to anyone who actually studies Dispensational Premillennialist teachings. Even more apparent when those teachings are compared to scripture with a Spirit-led understanding of God's word. You say that is what you base your understanding upon. I am relying on that to be true.

No orthodox Christian in the entire history of Christianity has ever believed any of those DPists teachings. This chart HERE was made by a Dispensational Premillennialist. Look at it. Look at the second to last row. The chart shows only DPism thinks modern Israel is relevant to Christian eschatology. No one but DPism teaches that! If what Dispensationalism teaches is true then everything Christians have been believing contrary to DPism has been a lie. Both cannot be true at the same time. Redemption and salvation cannot be by grace alone and also by works.

And the real rub is that the leaders of DPism are not honest about this. They will say they believe in salvation by grace through faith (and many of them are soteriological monergists in that regard) but what they do not do is explain how building a temple is not works, or why it is the temple must be built first. They skip over that problem is silence. It is called a lie of omission.

Despite the length of what I just said, much, much more could said about this problem inherent in DPism. There is, however, no need for defensiveness. I and most of the other non-DPers here in this forum used to be Dispensational Premillennialists. I've read much of what Thomas Ice has written. I've read Darby, Scofield, Chafer, Ryre, Walvoord, Ice, Vlach, Watson and many others. I got so frustrated when I was first confronted with the problems inherent in DPism that I work vociferously to prove the critics wrong. Years of study brought me to reality: DPism is hugely inconsistent within itself AND with God's word, and it can be maintained only by an eisegetic reading of scripture.

But that is too much information to cover in a single post, so I tried asking you a few very simple, basic questions and the conversation broke down within three inquiries. I do not believe for a second that came from the Holy Spirit. God wants us both to have answers to these questions and provide an explanation for what we believe when asked.

I have answered your question. Will you now answer mine?

• Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism was literally invented in the 19th century?
• Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism is an eschatological position that is not held by most of Christendom?

I'll ask them one or two at a time, keep them simple and build from their based on your answers. I will also provide parity. You ask me one or two basic (op-relevant) questions and I will gladly answer them.

 

[Josheb]

The 'End of these wonders' prophecy of Daniel 12
The 70-Weeks prophecy of Daniel 9
The 'After two-days' prophecy of Hosea 5:15-6:2
The pre-Tribulation Rapture
The (literal) Millennial Kingdom of Revelation 20
The Great White Throne Judgement of Revelation 20

None of that is basic. I am happy to take up each text with you when sufficient foundation for doing so has been established but until then what you've just done is a bait and switch.

I will tell you my most likely response to any such inquiry on your part is to ask you what the New Testament states about any of the texts in question. I always ask that question because of the problem of Judaization. Christians are not Jews. Jews got a big bunch of stuff wrong and many of their errors are recorded in God's word by God so that we don't make the same mistakes. Because DPism holds to discontinuity it emphasizes the Old Testament over the New. Because DPism holds to a two-peoples, two-kingdoms, two-purposes theology it emphasizes the Old over the New and tends to neglect even looking at what the NT says about the OT. The rest of Christianity does the exact opposite. This is why DPism's view of the process of creation nd redemption has some fundamental and irreconcilable differences with the rest of historic, orthodox Christianity. They both cannot be simultaneously true and since DPism was invented in the 19th century , that means whatever was believed before then is wrong. DPism makes everything Christians believed before the 1800s wrong!

And this op is not about comparative theologies. I'm not going to get into a competition with you about what a DPist says compared to what an Amillennialist or Postmillennialist says. I will stick with you sticking to Dispensationalism if you can tolerate it. I am happy to apply what DPism teaches to what DPism teaches and measure it by scripture.

But you will have to be honest and forthcoming and collaborative with your own eschatology. You can start by answering questions when asked and expecting me to do likewise.

• Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism was literally invented in the 19th century?
• Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism is an eschatological position that is not held by most of Christendom?

If we have to take a brief digression to establish the 19th century origin of DPism then I am happy, willing, and quite able to do that. Otherwise, real simple, basic, direct, succinct and forthcoming answers will move this conversation alone quickly.

 

[Josheb]

.

This file may help you with my understanding of scripture as it pertains to the biblical timeline.

That file is not new to me. I understand it well and I know my Bible. What I do not know is.....

• Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism was literally invented in the 19th century?
• Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism is an eschatological position that is not held by most of Christendom?

So, would you please, answer the questions asked so you and I can move forward in this conversation. At various points along the way I will tie our progress back to the op and I will do that deliberately so that we do not get far afield of this op. It's your op. I am not your enemy. If scripture is our common measure, then we should be able to reach a consensus - a three-way agreement: you, me, and God's word correctly rendered.

That is a good goal for any op.








As another show of goodwill and good faith, let me also commend you for doing something that has gone unstated but is very important. You posted this op on the process of creation and redemption in the eschatology board, not the soteriology board. That's an odd thing to do for many Christians because many do not realize salvation is eschatological. Soteriology and eschatology overlap a great deal. I do not know whether that was your intent but, if so, then well done. I'm looking forward to meting that out with you .
.

 

[Josheb]

The rapture will occur when 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 comes to pass.

If you're interested in seeing the rapture's most likely position on the biblical timeline, then take a look at these files:

7049 Biblical Timeline Research > Biblical Timelines > Biblical Timeline - Linear
7049 Biblical Timeline Research > Biblical Timelines > Modern State of Israel Timeline - Monthly
7049 Biblical Timeline Research > Articles > The Fall Feasts and the Return of Christ

Perhaps I missed it, but would you mind telling me where the first two graphics you posted (HERE and HERE) mention any rapture?

Because if those attachments do not mention any rapture..... then why have you let @CrowCross sabotage your op and drag you off topic with his injection of the rapture into this thread? Be careful. Many of your Dispensationalist kinsmen will gladly hijack your op if you let them. Just because they share your eschatology does not mean they will cooperate or collaborate with you and this op. There are literally dozens of threads in this board where one DPer dragged another DPer off his or her own op. Do you intend to discuss the process of creation and redemption relevant to those attachments or not? If so then don't give anyone else fodder for tangents.

Just trying to help .

 

[CrowCross]

Because if those attachments do not mention any rapture..... then why have you let @CrowCross sabotage your op and drag you off topic with his injection of the rapture into this thread?

WOW....you love to drive wedges. Mind your own business.

I simply noticed the chart didn't include the rapture. I was wondering when/where they would place it.

So, out.

 

[CrowCross]

Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism was literally invented in the 19th century?

why have you let Josheb sabotage your op and drag you off topic with his injection of Dispensational Premillennialism into this thread?

snicker, snicker.

 

[Arial]

• Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism was literally invented in the 19th century?
• Are you also aware Dispensational Premillennialism is an eschatological position that is not held by most of Christendom?

• Home
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• Eschatology - End times and Prophecy.

The Process of Creation and Redemption​

 

[Josheb]

why have you let Josheb sabotage your op and drag you off topic with his injection of Dispensational Premillennialism into this thread?

snicker, snicker.

The author of the op is DP.
The author openly acknowledges that fact.
The attachments supporting the op are DP.
The websites from which the attachments are taken are DP.

You are wrong, once again. Are you paying attention @Jarhead4Jesus? He may share your eschatology but he's not helping your op.