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The Kingdom of God on Earth in Jerusalem.

The view you have taken is put a lot of effort into making itself accessible, but it is actually against common sense over and over. All told it sound irrational.

1, why would destitute, desperate people be delighted that a kingdom was coming XOOO years later?

2, why is the expression 'this generation' constantly used about this generation...unless a 'prophecy expert' is reading it, in which case it means X000 years in the future!?

3, the first page of the Rev says twice that these things will happen shortly, meaning soon and swift. It is especially to the attention of those believers on the west coast of Asia Minor. There are images all through the thing that are from the 1st cent. Judea times. So why is it a 'guide to the end of the world' now suddenly?

4, in a sermon just yesterday on the rapture, a teacher read through the end of I Th 2 but changed the tense of the verb about the total wrath on Israel to future tense. But even so, is this the rosy picture we are supposed to get from Rom 11?
5, Jesus kingdom now is handed over to the Father, but it is not two kinds, nor are either based in Jerusalem.

Revelation 21: And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Well the Bible teaches different, I'm sticking with book....peace in Jesus name
 
Revelation 21: And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Well the Bible teaches different, I'm sticking with book....peace in Jesus name

There's no connection Tan. I'm referring to the scene during the nativity where the two women are excited that their babies are part of the redemptive kingdom of God. Lk 1-2.

As you may know, John the B'er will come soon and say the kingdom is here; you people should repent. (I don't know what force this would if he meant something X000 in the future).

In both cases, these people were referring to things right before them, about to happen, happening.

Yes the NHNE is the kingdom without the evil of this world present. But there is no avoiding that the King and kingdom arrived already in Christ.
 
No, that's according to your personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8), and which personal interpretation is in disagreement with authoritative NT apostolic teaching.

You confuse your personal interpretation of prophetic riddles with the meaning of the word of God.
One must understand that, the foundation of the church started in the wilderness on the seventh day of the week, Stephen mention that in Acts 7:38 - This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us. Remember Jesus was sent to Israel and He ministered only to Israel. He tells us in verse (8) that which He gave to Israel were the words of God. He reiterates that in the following verses.

John (17:14) I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
(17) Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. Later down the line Peter and Paul was sent to teach the Gentiles, but understand where the teaching of God come from.

Pay close attention to the following statement which Jesus made. John (4:22) Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Jesus did not make the above statement to be boastful. Jesus made this statement because it is factual. Everything one knows about God comes from the bible. The bible contains the word of God and that word was given to Israel and Israel only. We know how to serve God by observing that which was required of Israel as written in the Holy Scriptures. Paul stated that in Romans.

Roman (3:1) What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

(2) Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. The Lord Himself stated that Israel is the only family of the earth that He has known.

Amos (3:2) You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

In summary, Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He also received into His fold sheep, which initially were not His. One can look at them as being adopted into the household of the Lord. What’s important to note is that when ever one is adopted, they have to adhere to, and be governed by, the rules and regulations of the house, by which they are adopted into. They do not come in and establish their own rules nor do they go about establishing their own set of own laws. One should strive to know and become Spiritual Israel, by following the word that God commanded Israel to adhere to. They are the natural inhabitants of the Lords household, and the way of salvation was revealed unto them. The Lord declared unto Israel, the ways in which to please and to serve Him. And if one wishes to become His sheep and follow Him, then they must become Spiritual Israel. There was no new way of obtaining salvation given to the Gentiles; they had to follow that which had already been established with Israel.

Exodus (12:49) One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
 
There's no connection Tan. I'm referring to the scene during the nativity where the two women are excited that their babies are part of the redemptive kingdom of God. Lk 1-2.

As you may know, John the B'er will come soon and say the kingdom is here; you people should repent. (I don't know what force this would if he meant something X000 in the future).

In both cases, these people were referring to things right before them, about to happen, happening.

Yes the NHNE is the kingdom without the evil of this world present. But there is no avoiding that the King and kingdom arrived already in Christ.
You do a lot talking and hardly no scriptures and verses to prove anything. What I post is future, regardless of how you feel or believe, I can read it and so I believe.
 
You do a lot talking and hardly no scriptures and verses to prove anything. What I post is future, regardless of how you feel or believe, I can read it and so I believe.


Luke 1-2. What would Elizabeth and Mary find important about some the X000 years away? The King and kingdom were arriving. That is what is exciting.

Passage: ck
Question: ck
Names: ck

We all must see what the kingdom of God meant first, from John the B, onward. It meant that people were supposed to 'obey the Son,' Ps 2, a messianic piece warning you if you failed to obey.
 
One must understand that, the foundation of the church started in the wilderness on the seventh day of the week, Stephen mention that in Acts 7:38 - This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us. Remember Jesus was sent to Israel and He ministered only to Israel. He tells us in verse (8) that which He gave to Israel were the words of God. He reiterates that in the following verses.

John (17:14) I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
(17) Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. Later down the line Peter and Paul was sent to teach the Gentiles, but understand where the teaching of God come from.

Pay close attention to the following statement which Jesus made. John (4:22) Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
A statement he made to a non-Israelite.
Jesus did not make the above statement to be boastful. Jesus made this statement because it is factual. Everything one knows about God comes from the bible.
There was no "Bible" during the time of Jesus. There were only scrolls of the OT.

And that Bible contains the words of the Son of God, Jesus of Nazareth, and Messiah
who was among them,
who came to fulfill the OT promises,
to teach Israel of the kingdom of God,
which had now come to them (Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20),
and was within them (Lk 17:20-21)
, and
who appointed 12 apostles to teach the people of God what he had taught them,
the testimony of all of which is in the NT for the people of God.
Roman (3:1) What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

(2) Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. The Lord Himself stated that Israel is the only family of the earth that He has known.
Amos (3:2) You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
And that family continues to the end of time, with the big difference that now one sacrifice for the remission of sin has been made, and no more need to be made for those who trust in the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin and right standing with Gods justice; i.e., "not guilty."
In summary, Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. He also received into His fold sheep, which initially were not His. One can look at them as being adopted into the household of the Lord. What’s important to note is that when ever one is adopted, they have to adhere to, and be governed by, the rules and regulations of the house, by which they are adopted into.
What is important is that they are the brothers of the only Son of God, enjoy the same rights (Jn 1:12) and privileges as the only Son of God, inherit the same inheritance as the only Son of God, and live by the same rules as the only Son of God.
What is important is that those who have rejected Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of God have been cut off from God's one people , the one olive tree (Ro 11:17-23), the NT church, and are no longer his people, and whose destiny is to be grafted back into the one olive tree of the NT church IF (not "when") they do not persist in unbelief, which they have for 2,000 years now, and counting.
 
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A statement he made to a non-Israelite.

There was no "Bible" during the time of Jesus. There were only scrolls of the OT.

And that Bible contains the words of the Son of God, Jesus of Nazareth, and Messiah
who was among them,
who came to fulfill the OT promises,
to teach Israel of the kingdom of God,
which had now come to them (Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20),
and was within them (Lk 17:20-21)
, and
who appointed 12 apostles to teach the people of God what he had taught them,
the testimony of all of which is in the NT for the people of God.

And that family continues to the end of time, with the big difference that now one sacrifice for the remission of sin has been made, and no more need to be made for those who trust in the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin and right standing with Gods justice; i.e., "not guilty."

What is important is that they are the brothers of the only Son of God, enjoy the same rights (Jn 1:12) and privileges as the only Son of God, inherit the same inheritance as the only Son of God, and live by the same rules as the only Son of God.
What is important is that those who have rejected Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of God have been cut off from God's one people , the one olive tree (Ro 11:17-23), the NT church, and are no longer his people, and whose destiny is to be grafted back into the one olive tree of the NT church IF (not "when") they do not persist in unbelief, which they have for 2,000 years now, and counting.


Certainly the NT makes every effort to push the 'called ones' or 'saints' or 'church' as far back into the OT as possible.

Even more decisive than the rejection of Christ is the rejection of his mission. You will find the Acts 2-4 saying 'we know you acted in ignorance, but now God wants you to be the missionaries spoken of by the prophets and go to all the world'--which by the way Pentecost had started automatically!

The mission keeps coming up: Acts 13 (sermon feedback), Acts 15 (Amos 9), Acts 24 and 26 as far as the vision of the church. Or see Paul's grief in 2 Th 2 about the persistent opposition to the Gospel by the Israelites. They were given a whole generation to turn it around.
 
Certainly the NT makes every effort to push the 'called ones' or 'saints' or 'church' as far back into the OT as possible.
The NT is authoritative NT apostolic teaching, which does not "make every effort" to do anything.

It authoritatively teaches that the one olive tree of God's people, the church, goes all the way back to Abraham and the patriarchs, its holy roots (Ro 11:16-23).
Even more decisive than the rejection of Christ is the rejection of his mission.
You have got to be kidding.
There is nothing more decisive than rejecting salvation from God's wrath (Ro 5:9).
You will find the Acts 2-4 saying 'we know you acted in ignorance, but now God wants you to be the missionaries spoken of by the prophets and go to all the world'--which by the way Pentecost had started automatically!
There is no mention or sending of any Jews to go to the world in Ac 2-4.
The mission keeps coming up: Acts 13 (sermon feedback), Acts 15 (Amos 9), Acts 24 and 26 as far as the vision of the church.(
Yes, Paul was to take the gospel to the Gentiles, as Peter was to take it to the Jews (Gal 2:7).
Or see Paul's grief in 2 Th 2 about the persistent opposition to the Gospel by the Israelites.
There is no opposition to the gospel by Israelites in 2 Th 2.
They were given a whole generation to turn it around.
To turn their unbelief around?

The hammer dropped at the resurrection and ascension, not a generation later.
 
A statement he made to a non-Israelite.

There was no "Bible" during the time of Jesus. There were only scrolls of the OT.

And that Bible contains the words of the Son of God, Jesus of Nazareth, and Messiah
who was among them,
who came to fulfill the OT promises,
to teach Israel of the kingdom of God,
which had now come to them (Mt 12:28, Lk 11:20),
and was within them (Lk 17:20-21)
, and
who appointed 12 apostles to teach the people of God what he had taught them,
the testimony of all of which is in the NT for the people of God.

And that family continues to the end of time, with the big difference that now one sacrifice for the remission of sin has been made, and no more need to be made for those who trust in the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin and right standing with Gods justice; i.e., "not guilty."

What is important is that they are the brothers of the only Son of God, enjoy the same rights (Jn 1:12) and privileges as the only Son of God, inherit the same inheritance as the only Son of God, and live by the same rules as the only Son of God.
What is important is that those who have rejected Jesus of Nazareth as the Son of God have been cut off from God's one people , the one olive tree (Ro 11:17-23), the NT church, and are no longer his people, and whose destiny is to be grafted back into the one olive tree of the NT church IF (not "when") they do not persist in unbelief, which they have for 2,000 years now, and counting.


Anyone truly interested in how modern Israel came about should read the historian Himmelfarb's GEORGE ELLIOT'S JEWISH ODDYSEY. Elliot, a renegade from her Christian roots, wrote a novel DANIEL DERONDA, which Himmelfarb shows was the major reason why Europe's Jews made an attempt to relocate from the late 1800s on.
 
Eleanor, you've been great but you're being a bit rigid here on some t
The NT is authoritative NT apostolic teaching, which does not "make every effort" to do anything.

It authoritatively teaches that the one olive tree of God's people, the church, goes all the way back to Abraham and the patriarchs, its holy roots (Ro 11:16-23).

You have got to be kidding.
There is nothing more decisive than rejecting salvation from God's wrath (Ro 5:9).

There is no mention or sending of any Jews to go to the world in Ac 2-4.

Yes, Paul was to take the gospel to the Gentiles, as Peter was to take it to the Jews (Gal 2:7).

There is no opposition to the gospel by Israelites in 2 Th 2.

To turn their unbelief around?

The hammer dropped at the resurrection and ascension, not a generation later.

Eleanor, you've mostly been great, but you're being a bit rigid and brittle here on several things, sometimes just word choice.

"make every effort" was not to diminish the apostles teaching at all. It's just a human observation about where that teaching is compared to the D'ist who says the church was a plan B surprise right after the crucifixion. Every possible way of saying it was used to get across the connection to the original single faith community. Yet the D'ist does not see it.

In terms of things at risk in the generation following Christ, they had a whole generation to decide to be its missionaries. As the illustration from 2-4 show Peter knew they acted in ignorance and that that much happened as God willed (4). But not believing, after all that, and helping in the mission sunk the nation. This is stated right away; one is the warning about obeying the new Moses at the risk of utterly loss of one's roots. 3:24. The new Moses had said to take his message to the world, which is repeated at the end of 3 in how Peter saw God's blessing could come to them.

You have completely missed the point of Pentecost and more if you don't see the appeal to all Israel to go out as missionaries. It happened automatically as people went home from Pentecost. But it can be seen in all appeals in Acts , in Rom 10-11, many places. The tragedy of the opposition of Judaizers is that they go to the nations but put them under the Law! They ghosted Paul's work and snuck into his Gentile contact. Their failure to 'be like him except for the chains' is the proof they were to be missionaries for the Gospel, not the Law.

It was 1 Thess 2: because you too suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they in fact did from the Jews, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets[q] and persecuted us severely.[r] They are displeasing to God and are opposed to all people, 16 because they hinder us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. Thus they constantly fill up their measure of sins,[s] but wrath[t] has come upon them completely.[u]
(Talk about not being missionaries!!!)

Yes the apostles wanted to turn Israel's unbelief around--to belief. Ever read Hebrews? It is specifically about that generations unbelief and what disaster could happen, and did happen,.

Yes the decision took place over the whole generation. It could have been stopped. You need to know what the zealots were like and that Jesus tried to turn a couple of them. There was no game over just because of the crucifixion. Otherwise the appeal of Acts 3 is bogus: turn from your evil ways to enjoy the times of refreshing and Jesus, which God will send you. There are many appeals to Israel to turn back from these sins even though the declaration was made, even before the crucifixion, that no stone would be left upon another. But the appeals, and the appeal of Hebrews, was still bona fide; it was not fake. 5000 men had believed by Acts 4. There were signs of hope!
 
Eleanor, you've mostly been great, but you're being a bit rigid and brittle here on several things, sometimes just word choice.
"make every effort" was not to diminish the apostles teaching at all. It's just a human observation about where that teaching is compared to the D'ist who says the church was a plan B surprise right after the crucifixion. Every possible way of saying it was used to get across the connection to the original single faith community. Yet the D'ist does not see it.
In terms of things at risk in the generation following Christ, they had a whole generation to decide to be its missionaries. As the illustration from 2-4 show Peter knew they acted in ignorance and that that much happened as God willed (4). But not believing, after all that, and helping in the mission sunk the nation. This is stated right away; one is the warning about obeying the new Moses at the risk of utterly loss of one's roots. 3:24. The new Moses had said to take his message to the world, which is repeated at the end of 3 in how Peter saw God's blessing could come to them.
Ac 2-4 is neither about Israel as missionaries, nor about losing their roots.
Ac 2-4 is about faith, about believing to their salvation.
The consequential issue of the entire NT is salvation, it is not missionary work.
This sounds like the building block of an extra-Biblical theology which interprets all Scripture through its lense.
You have completely missed the point of Pentecost and more if you don't see the appeal to all Israel to go out as missionaries. It happened automatically as people went home from Pentecost. But it can be seen in all appeals in Acts , in Rom 10-11, many places.
Ro 10-11 are about God's cutting off of Israel.
Please show Scriptures from Ac and Ro which present the appeal to Israel to go out as missionaries.
The tragedy of the opposition of Judaizers is that they go to the nations but put them under the Law! They ghosted Paul's work and snuck into his Gentile contact.
The Judaizers were from Jerusalem. They were Jewish converts to Christianity (false brothers, Gal 2:4, Ac 14:5, 2 Co 11:26), who insisted that circumcision was necessary for salvation and that Gentles were to obey the law.
The issue was settled by the Jerusalem council in Ac 15.
Their failure to 'be like him except for the chains' is the proof they were to be missionaries for the Gospel, not the Law.
Paul's statement to Agrippa (Ac 26:28-29), regarding Paul's wish that Agrippa were like him, refers to being a Christian, not to being a missionary. He did not wish Agrippa to be a missionary.
It was 1 Thess 2: because you too suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they in fact did from the Jews, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets[q] and persecuted us severely.[r] They are displeasing to God and are opposed to all people, 16 because they hinder us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. Thus they constantly fill up their measure of sins,[s] but wrath[t] has come upon them completely.[u]
(Talk about not being missionaries!!!)
1 Th 2:14-16 is not about missionaries. It's about the Christians in Thessalonica suffering persecution from the Gentiles there, which was instigated by the Jews (Ac 17:5-9).
The issue regarding the Jews in the NT is belief, not missionary work.
Yes the apostles wanted to turn Israel's unbelief around--to belief. Ever read Hebrews? It is specifically about that generations unbelief and what disaster could happen, and did happen,.
Which disaster is the consequences of apostasy; i.e., falling away from belief into unbelief. It is not about failing to be missionaries.
Yes the decision took place over the whole generation. It could have been stopped. You need to know what the zealots were like and that Jesus tried to turn a couple of them.
What a peculiar way of looking at the NT, as though the issue is missionary work rather than belief.
It has all the earmarks of either an extra-Biblical or contra-NT theology.
There was no game over just because of the crucifixion. Otherwise the appeal of Acts 3 is bogus: turn from your evil ways to enjoy the times of refreshing and Jesus, which God will send you. There are many appeals to Israel to turn back from these sins even though the declaration was made, even before the crucifixion, that no stone would be left upon another. But the appeals, and the appeal of Hebrews, was still bona fide; it was not fake. 5000 men had believed by Acts 4. There were signs of hope!
Where the issue is faith, not missionary work.

Yours is either an extra-Biblical or contra-NT theology.
 
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Anyone truly interested in how modern Israel came about should read the historian Himmelfarb's GEORGE ELLIOT'S JEWISH ODDYSEY. Elliot, a renegade from her Christian roots, wrote a novel DANIEL DERONDA, which Himmelfarb shows was the major reason why Europe's Jews made an attempt to relocate from the late 1800s on.
The NT is not about modern Israel, it's about NT Israel.
 
Ac 2-4 is neither about Israel as missionaries, nor about losing their roots.
Ac 2-4 is about faith, about believing to their salvation.
The consequential issue of the entire NT is salvation, it is not missionary work.
This sounds like the building block of an extra-Biblical theology which interprets all Scripture through its lense.

Ro 10-11 are about God's cutting off of Israel.
Please show Scriptures from Ac and Ro which present the appeal to Israel to go out as missionaries.

The Judaizers were from Jerusalem. They were Jewish converts to Christianity (false brothers, Gal 2:4, Ac 14:5, 2 Co 11:26), who insisted that circumcision was necessary for salvation and that Gentles were to obey the law.
The issue was settled by the Jerusalem council in Ac 15.

Paul's statement to Agrippa (Ac 26:28-29), regarding Paul's wish that Agrippa were like him, refers to being a Christian, not to being a missionary. He did not wish Agrippa to be a missionary.

1 Th 2:14-16 is not about missionaries. It's about the Christians in Thessalonica suffering persecution from the Gentiles there, which was instigated by the Jews (Ac 17:5-9).
The issue regarding the Jews in the NT is belief, not missionary work.

Which disaster is the consequences of apostasy; i.e., falling away from belief into unbelief. It is not about failing to be missionaries.

What a peculiar way of looking at the NT, as though the issue is missionary work rather than belief.
It has all the earmarks of either an extra-Biblical or contra-NT theology.

Where the issue is faith, not missionary work.

Yours is either an extra-Biblical or contra-NT theology.

Eleanor, this is ridiculous. You have to spread the message of salvation; that is part of having it. There is no message without spreaders!
re called to be missionaries. It is absolutely there.
1, it is automatically in the Pentecost event itself. It took the message back to the homes all over the Roman empire.
2, It is in Acts 2:4. Everyone. How does everyone get a chance if they don't go?
3, v39, the promise is for the nearest and the furthest.
4, the sermon is not climaxed on salvation but on the declaration that Jesus is now Lord and Christ in the Davidic sense, but salvation is close behind.
5, 3:24. The New Moses said to obey in all things, and he had declared that they were to go to the nations.
6, 3:25, 26. The ancient blessing to the nations was repeated, and the iniquity of Israel at this very moment is not being an outreach to the nations. They were very much about closing off, and making it as difficult as possible for Gentiles.
7, 4:12. The name for salvation is for everyone under heaven.
8, 4:25. The apostles lament the resistance of the nations and their own rulers. They ask for the ability to speak to all. The prayer is from Ps 2 and is predicated on the fact that God created all mankind.

The very nature of the message is that it is for all, and must be taken to all. I have no idea why you resist that.
 
Ac 2-4 is neither about Israel as missionaries, nor about losing their roots.
Ac 2-4 is about faith, about believing to their salvation.
The consequential issue of the entire NT is salvation, it is not missionary work.
This sounds like the building block of an extra-Biblical theology which interprets all Scripture through its lense.

Ro 10-11 are about God's cutting off of Israel.
Please show Scriptures from Ac and Ro which present the appeal to Israel to go out as missionaries.

The Judaizers were from Jerusalem. They were Jewish converts to Christianity (false brothers, Gal 2:4, Ac 14:5, 2 Co 11:26), who insisted that circumcision was necessary for salvation and that Gentles were to obey the law.
The issue was settled by the Jerusalem council in Ac 15.

Paul's statement to Agrippa (Ac 26:28-29), regarding Paul's wish that Agrippa were like him, refers to being a Christian, not to being a missionary. He did not wish Agrippa to be a missionary.

1 Th 2:14-16 is not about missionaries. It's about the Christians in Thessalonica suffering persecution from the Gentiles there, which was instigated by the Jews (Ac 17:5-9).
The issue regarding the Jews in the NT is belief, not missionary work.

Which disaster is the consequences of apostasy; i.e., falling away from belief into unbelief. It is not about failing to be missionaries.

What a peculiar way of looking at the NT, as though the issue is missionary work rather than belief.
It has all the earmarks of either an extra-Biblical or contra-NT theology.

Where the issue is faith, not missionary work.

Yours is either an extra-Biblical or contra-NT theology.


Romans 10 is spot on about Israel being missionaries. He opens with the problem of their own righteousness. They need to be following God's the theme of the whole book. From v11 the universal appeal of salvation is declared, and he wishes Israel was working in that harvest. V19 is the assertion that Israel knew all this, in 3 quotes about the message going to the nations.

11:11-16 is Pauls use of jealousy to get Jews to come back and help in the mission because it would be such a benefit.

In ch 11 he wants to make the Jews jealous that the Gentiles are accomplishing more. Why would he do that if they weren't also supposed to be missionaries? Paul wanted everyone to be as he is 'except for the chains.' He said that to Jewish rulers and Gentile administrators.

So did Jesus in Mt 21, but they refused.

So in Acts 13's sermon's follow up. The people were meant to be come a light to the Gentiles through Christ the light. Btw, the Jews there resisted that thought. Go figure.

So in Lk 1-2's nativity narratives 'He will be the glory of the people of Israel and a light to the nations.'


There are many more.
 
Ac 2-4 is neither about Israel as missionaries, nor about losing their roots.
Ac 2-4 is about faith, about believing to their salvation.
The consequential issue of the entire NT is salvation, it is not missionary work.
This sounds like the building block of an extra-Biblical theology which interprets all Scripture through its lense.

Ro 10-11 are about God's cutting off of Israel.
Please show Scriptures from Ac and Ro which present the appeal to Israel to go out as missionaries.

The Judaizers were from Jerusalem. They were Jewish converts to Christianity (false brothers, Gal 2:4, Ac 14:5, 2 Co 11:26), who insisted that circumcision was necessary for salvation and that Gentles were to obey the law.
The issue was settled by the Jerusalem council in Ac 15.

Paul's statement to Agrippa (Ac 26:28-29), regarding Paul's wish that Agrippa were like him, refers to being a Christian, not to being a missionary. He did not wish Agrippa to be a missionary.

1 Th 2:14-16 is not about missionaries. It's about the Christians in Thessalonica suffering persecution from the Gentiles there, which was instigated by the Jews (Ac 17:5-9).
The issue regarding the Jews in the NT is belief, not missionary work.

Which disaster is the consequences of apostasy; i.e., falling away from belief into unbelief. It is not about failing to be missionaries.

What a peculiar way of looking at the NT, as though the issue is missionary work rather than belief.
It has all the earmarks of either an extra-Biblical or contra-NT theology.

Where the issue is faith, not missionary work.

Yours is either an extra-Biblical or contra-NT theology.


If you don't know the disaster that Israel caused to itself in the 1st cent., you need to retool. It is not possible to grasp the NT without knowing.
 
Eleanor:
as though the issue is missionary work rather than belief.

Not at all. The mission work is about the belief, believe on the Lord Jesus.

re Himmelfarb, Eliot.
Sorry you aren't tracking. The topic was that a return to Israel by European Jews in the late 1800s had nothing to do with Christ as the NT shows him, but was straight from OT texts without any NT information. Of course it is about modern Israel beliefs; that's the point.
 
Ac 2-4 is neither about Israel as missionaries, nor about losing their roots.
Ac 2-4 is about faith, about believing to their salvation.
The consequential issue of the entire NT is salvation, it is not missionary work.
This sounds like the building block of an extra-Biblical theology which interprets all Scripture through its lense.

Ro 10-11 are about God's cutting off of Israel.
Please show Scriptures from Ac and Ro which present the appeal to Israel to go out as missionaries.

The Judaizers were from Jerusalem. They were Jewish converts to Christianity (false brothers, Gal 2:4, Ac 14:5, 2 Co 11:26), who insisted that circumcision was necessary for salvation and that Gentles were to obey the law.
The issue was settled by the Jerusalem council in Ac 15.

Paul's statement to Agrippa (Ac 26:28-29), regarding Paul's wish that Agrippa were like him, refers to being a Christian, not to being a missionary. He did not wish Agrippa to be a missionary.

1 Th 2:14-16 is not about missionaries. It's about the Christians in Thessalonica suffering persecution from the Gentiles there, which was instigated by the Jews (Ac 17:5-9).
The issue regarding the Jews in the NT is belief, not missionary work.

Which disaster is the consequences of apostasy; i.e., falling away from belief into unbelief. It is not about failing to be missionaries.

What a peculiar way of looking at the NT, as though the issue is missionary work rather than belief.
It has all the earmarks of either an extra-Biblical or contra-NT theology.

Where the issue is faith, not missionary work.

Yours is either an extra-Biblical or contra-NT theology.
@EarlyActs makes me think he is an evangelist at heart. They so often come across as though God's whole reason for creating humans and redeeming them is to add members to the club.
 
@EarlyActs makes me think he is an evangelist at heart. They so often come across as though God's whole reason for creating humans and redeeming them is to add members to the club.

The late Acts reference to Agrippa clearly goes the other way. Ever read Paul give his own summary of what Jesus taught? 23 that[bn] the Christ[bo] was to suffer and be the first to rise from the dead, to proclaim light both to our people[bp] and to the Gentiles.”[bq]
That is what Moses and the prophets predicted. Mission work is part of the deal, because it is a natural. I can't imagine what your resistance is. You don't have to have a huge work; you do what you can, but you must do something.

I Tim 3 the mystery of godliness: ' he came to earth, was vindicated in the Spirit,... was preached on in the world' It is part of the package. The mission is EVERYWHERE in the NT.

Jn 4 The living water, offered to a GENTILE, was to flow Out of (not just into), your inner person. And it did. She went to the village and they all came out to hear him.
 
The NT is not about modern Israel, it's about NT Israel.
Eleanor, this is ridiculous. You have to spread the message of salvation; that is part of having it. There is no message without spreaders!
re called to be missionaries. It is absolutely there.
It is not there.
Please present the Scritpures from Acts where this is either stated or clearly presented.
1, it is automatically in the Pentecost event itself. It took the message back to the homes all over the Roman empire.
2, It is in Acts 2:4. Everyone. How does everyone get a chance if they don't go?
3, v39, the promise is for the nearest and the furthest.
4, the sermon is not climaxed on salvation but on the declaration that Jesus is now Lord and Christ in the Davidic sense, but salvation is close behind.
5, 3:24. The New Moses said to obey in all things, and he had declared that they were to go to the nations.
6, 3:25, 26. The ancient blessing to the nations was repeated, and the iniquity of Israel at this very moment is not being an outreach to the nations. They were very much about closing off, and making it as difficult as possible for Gentiles.
7, 4:12. The name for salvation is for everyone under heaven.
8, 4:25. The apostles lament the resistance of the nations and their own rulers. They ask for the ability to speak to all. The prayer is from Ps 2 and is predicated on the fact that God created all mankind.

The very nature of the message is that it is for all, and must be taken to all. I have no idea why you resist that.[/QUOTE]
Straw man.

I resist your reading into the text what is nowhere presented.

The NT is about belief and salvation, not about being a missionary.

Present the Scriptures where the NT is about being a missionary.
 
It is not there.
Please present the Scritpures from Acts where this is either stated or clearly presented.
1, it is automatically in the Pentecost event itself. It took the message back to the homes all over the Roman empire.
2, It is in Acts 2:4. Everyone. How does everyone get a chance if they don't go?
3, v39, the promise is for the nearest and the furthest.
4, the sermon is not climaxed on salvation but on the declaration that Jesus is now Lord and Christ in the Davidic sense, but salvation is close behind.
5, 3:24. The New Moses said to obey in all things, and he had declared that they were to go to the nations.
6, 3:25, 26. The ancient blessing to the nations was repeated, and the iniquity of Israel at this very moment is not being an outreach to the nations. They were very much about closing off, and making it as difficult as possible for Gentiles.
7, 4:12. The name for salvation is for everyone under heaven.
8, 4:25. The apostles lament the resistance of the nations and their own rulers. They ask for the ability to speak to all. The prayer is from Ps 2 and is predicated on the fact that God created all mankind.

The very nature of the message is that it is for all, and must be taken to all. I have no idea why you resist that.
Straw man.

I resist your reading into the text what is nowhere presented.

The NT is about belief and salvation, not about being a missionary.

Present the Scriptures where the NT is about being a missionary.
[/QUOTE]


Both are there. in the first place, why do Pentecost when all those people from all those countries are there? They go home and tell people.

If you don't grasp that, I can't spend any more time on something so obvious.
 
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