The Kingdom of God on Earth in Jerusalem.

[Eleanor]

But I asked - So how are the Patriarchs as the `root` our origin and nourishment?

They are the beginning of the one people of God of both the OT and NT, through whom the promises and blessings came.

 

[Marilyn C]

They are the beginning of the one people of God of both the OT and NT, through whom the promises and blessings came.

Scriptures please.

 

[Eleanor]

Scriptures please.

It begins formally with the first covenant to Abraham in Ge 15:9-21.

 

[Marilyn C]

It begins formally with the first covenant to Abraham in Ge 15:9-21.

Gen. 15: 9 - 21 only refers to the Nation of Israel (Abraham`s natural descendants) receiving the promise of the land `from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates.`

 

[Eleanor]

Gen. 15: 9 - 21 only refers to the Nation of Israel (Abraham`s natural descendants) receiving the promise of the land `from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates.`

The metaphor of the one olive tree as the people of God is not about nourishment, but about origin, development and pruning.
Yes, it was the first covenant to the head of the people of God.

 

[EarlyActs]

The metaphor of the one olive tree as the people of God is not about nourishment, but about origin, development and pruning.
Yes, it was the first covenant to the head of the people of God.

\
But about Gen 15, when we listen fully to the NT, even then it was not that it was a race-nation, but a faith community, in which there is always a difference between remnant and the whole.

 

[Eleanor]

\
But about Gen 15, when we listen fully to the NT, even then it was not that it was a race-nation, but a faith community, in which there is always a difference between remnant and the whole.

Isreal was the descendants of Jacob (Israel) only, not of Ishmael nor of Esau.

 

[EarlyActs]

Isreal was the descendants of Jacob (Israel) only, not of Ishmael nor of Esau.

Yet in Gal 4 what matters is the lack of faith, not the race. The lack of faith makes the modern Judaizers 'sons of the slave woman' no matter their birth lineage.

We should read the NT interp of all these things.

 

[Bro.Tan]

I'm not aware of a page in the gospel narrative that does not confirm its presence; it is Jesus' activity and the community it creates. In Acts 2 he is enthroned and the kingdom continues on.

It is a realm where God/Christ is king; he reigns. Obviously there are 'nations that rage against the Lord and His Christ.'

When John the B announced that he was a voice crying in the wilderness from Isaiah, it is language from a king's traveling entourage; 'make the preparations for the arrival of the king, etc.' And then the King came.

I'm trying to get a full understanding of what you saying but with out enough scriptures or verses it's difficult.

 

[Bro.Tan]

In the scriptures it's written in psalm 132 lets take a look at what the Lord sworn in truth unto David. Verse 11-14, 11 The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne. 12 If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore. 13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired It for his habitation. 132:14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it. Now at that time David was on the earth and he knew the Lord plan, which is to come down on earth.

 

[EarlyActs]

In the scriptures it's written in psalm 132 lets take a look at what the Lord sworn in truth unto David. Verse 11-14, 11 The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne. 12 If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore. 13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired It for his habitation. 132:14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it. Now at that time David was on the earth and he knew the Lord plan, which is to come down on earth.

What do you see when you read Acts 2:30,31?

 

[Bro.Tan]

What do you see when you read Acts 2:30,31?

I prefer you to quote out the verses and explain to me what you see, that's to me how I like to fellowship, let's not be lazy when it comes to the word of God.

 

[EarlyActs]

I prefer you to quote out the verses and explain to me what you see, that's to me how I like to fellowship, let's not be lazy when it comes to the word of God.

That was to find out what you think the verse says, not what I think. Are you extra familiar with it, or is it a surprise that I would mention it?

 

[Bro.Tan]

That was to find out what you think the verse says, not what I think. Are you extra familiar with it, or is it a surprise that I would mention it?

I agree, we focus on what the Bible says not what we think, yes I'm familiar with the verse. Why do you want to know what I think?

 

[EarlyActs]

To

I agree, we focus on what the Bible says not what we think, yes I'm familiar with the verse. Why do you want to know what I think?

To respond to what you think it means, not what you don't.

To wit: D'ism denies it is about David's kingdom existing now, and says it was about a distant future Davidic kingdom on earth.

 

[Bro.Tan]

To


To respond to what you think it means, not what you don't.

To wit: D'ism denies it is about David's kingdom existing now, and says it was about a distant future Davidic kingdom on earth.

Well, according to the Bible it's in the future. Let's go into Luke 1: 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

So we know David is dead and buried now (Acts : 2:29), but this kingdom Jesus will reign over is at Jesus second coming, at that time David will be resurrected as well. Lets go into 1Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. So here we have all those who Saints who will make the first resurrection, but remember Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Now understand that David will still be king as well in the future.

Let's go into the future in Ezekiel 37: 21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 22 and I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 23 neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. 24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Notice at this time Israel will not be in captivity among the heathen as they are now. One last place, let's see when Jesus and David and all the saints are back, this is what the people in the world will be doing. Let's go into Isaiah 2: 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

So this is all future

 

[EarlyActs]

Well, according to the Bible it's in the future. Let's go into Luke 1: 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 and he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

So we know David is dead and buried now (Acts : 2:29), but this kingdom Jesus will reign over is at Jesus second coming, at that time David will be resurrected as well. Lets go into 1Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. So here we have all those who Saints who will make the first resurrection, but remember Jesus is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Now understand that David will still be king as well in the future.

Let's go into the future in Ezekiel 37: 21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: 22 and I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all: 23 neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God. 24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. 25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. 26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. 27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Notice at this time Israel will not be in captivity among the heathen as they are now. One last place, let's see when Jesus and David and all the saints are back, this is what the people in the world will be doing. Let's go into Isaiah 2: 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

So this is all future

If taken in a brittle literal sense, yes. But I notice you didn't consult the NT on the OT once. You just read it apart from the method provided by the NT.

There is no reason at all that the nativity announcement would be obsessing about things X000 years in the future and suddenly say, oh that's way off in the future. It's rather nonsense.

Acts 2:30 makes it clear that David himself saw the resurrection as the enthronement. Each of Acts 2-4 repeat that it is. Everyone then often objects 'but we don't see one.' Exactly! 'The kingdom will not come with things to observe and say here it is or there it is.' THe importance of the enthronement is Ps 2 and 110.

Ps and 110 both say that the world deserves to be his and that all rulers and common people must 'honor the Son, lest he be angry' and smash you. It's so simple and clear except to the people obsessed with 'fixing' or 'placing' or 'slotting' every single future event. Which is none of our business, Acts 1:8. This powerful thought, this imperative, is the rod of the Word which the prophets said would come when Messiah came. Many countries rediscovered it in Europe in the Reformation.

 

[Bro.Tan]

If taken in a brittle literal sense, yes. But I notice you didn't consult the NT on the OT once. You just read it apart from the method provided by the NT.

I believe I did, I started off in Luke 1st Ch.

There is no reason at all that the nativity announcement would be obsessing about things X000 years in the future and suddenly say, oh that's way off in the future. It's rather nonsense.

Acts 2:30 makes it clear that David himself saw the resurrection as the enthronement. Each of Acts 2-4 repeat that it is. Everyone then often objects 'but we don't see one.' Exactly! 'The kingdom will not come with things to observe and say here it is or there it is.' THe importance of the enthronement is Ps 2 and 110.

According to the Bible there's two Kingdom, Jesus first and the Father second. Jesus kingdom will be a thousand yrs before the father. Lets go read about the first one in Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Jesus kingdom will be the beginning of the rebuild earth after the war armageddon, so it will be things to observe.

Ps and 110 both say that the world deserves to be his and that all rulers and common people must 'honor the Son, lest he be angry' and smash you. It's so simple and clear except to the people obsessed with 'fixing' or 'placing' or 'slotting' every single future event. Which is none of our business, Acts 1:8. This powerful thought, this imperative, is the rod of the Word which the prophets said would come when Messiah came. Many countries rediscovered it in Europe in the Reformation.

Everything is going to happen according to the word of God, I believe that.

 

[Eleanor]

I believe I did, I started off in Luke 1st Ch.



According to the Bible there's two Kingdom, Jesus first and the Father second. Jesus kingdom will be a thousand yrs before the father.

No, that's according to your personal interpretation of prophetic riddles not spoken clearly (Nu 12:8), and which personal interpretation is in disagreement with authoritative NT apostolic teaching.

Lets go read about the first one in Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Jesus kingdom will be the beginning of the rebuild earth after the war armageddon, so it will be things to observe.

Everything is going to happen according to the word of God, I believe that.

You confuse your personal interpretation of prophetic riddles with the meaning of the word of God.

 

[EarlyActs]

I believe I did, I started off in Luke 1st Ch.



According to the Bible there's two Kingdom, Jesus first and the Father second. Jesus kingdom will be a thousand yrs before the father. Lets go read about the first one in Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Jesus kingdom will be the beginning of the rebuild earth after the war armageddon, so it will be things to observe.



Everything is going to happen according to the word of God, I believe that.

The view you have taken is put a lot of effort into making itself accessible, but it is actually against common sense over and over. All told it sound irrational.

1, why would destitute, desperate people be delighted that a kingdom was coming XOOO years later?

2, why is the expression 'this generation' constantly used about this generation...unless a 'prophecy expert' is reading it, in which case it means X000 years in the future!?

3, the first page of the Rev says twice that these things will happen shortly, meaning soon and swift. It is especially to the attention of those believers on the west coast of Asia Minor. There are images all through the thing that are from the 1st cent. Judea times. So why is it a 'guide to the end of the world' now suddenly?

4, in a sermon just yesterday on the rapture, a teacher read through the end of I Th 2 but changed the tense of the verb about the total wrath on Israel to future tense. But even so, is this the rosy picture we are supposed to get from Rom 11?
5, Jesus kingdom now is handed over to the Father, but it is not two kinds, nor are either based in Jerusalem.