The False Gospel of Grace...

[brightfame52]

Roman 5:19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.

The above verses notably does not say that Christ obeyed the law for many, but that many will be made righteous because of one man's obedience. Being made into someone who is righteous means being made into someone who practices righteousness in obedience to God's law in accordance with the definition that you listed. While we are made righteous through faith apart from being required to have first practiced righteousness for a certain amount as if it would be earned as a wage, it would be contradictory to become righteous apart from becoming someone who practices righteousness.


In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know Him and Israel too, and Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3).

In Romans 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursing the law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, this faith references Deuteronomy 30:11-20 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God rose him from the dead (Titus 2:14). So nothing in this passage has anything to do with Jesus ending God's law, but just the opposite.


In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Law of God, so its righteous requirement is fulfilled in us who walk after the Sprit because the Spirit leads us to obey it. Furthermore, in Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God.


So to walk after the Spirit means to walk in obedience to the Law of God, which is also the way to walk by faith and believe in Christ because Christ said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Law of God (Matthew 23:23). So while we aren't under the law of sin when we are under grace, we are nevertheless still under the Law of God (Psalms 119:29, Exodus 33:13, Genesis 6:8-9, Romans 1:5, Titus 2:11-14).

You still missing it, Christs Obedience was to the Law of God, He was made under the Law Gal 4:4 not for Himself, but for them He represented, so everyone He obeyed for are made righteous. This being made righteous is keeping the commandments of God of perfectly for them. Rom 5:19;8:3-4

Walking after the Spirit is living by Faith in Christ, faith is a fruit of the Spirit.

Now if you dont believe in Christ as your righteousness, keeping the Law in your behalf, you are under the curse of the law, unless of course God gives you faith in Christ

 

[Arial]

I can't tell you how many people who have told me that we aren't under God's law, but are under grace. Sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so they are perverting grace into a license to sin in spite of the fact that there are many verses that show that God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey His law (Psalms 119:29, Exodus 33:13, Genesis 6:8-9, Romans 1:5, Titus 2:11-14), so that is what it means to be under grace.

Not that it is relevant how many people have told who what---but if a person says they are not under law, but grace (and I question whether many say "God's law", but simply say they are not under law) they are quoting the Bible, or paraphrasing it. (Romans 6:14-15) So how are they perverting the gospel? Paul says it is not a license to sin. But that does not mean we are under law. You simply do not know what the NT scriptures mean by under law. The new covenant is by grace through faith. It has no laws as the old covenant did. The writings of the OT were written by those who were under legal, binding, laws.

 

[Mr GLee]

Psalms as a whole never refer to "the letter of the law" or "a new born again law" and never speak about a law that leads to death, nor is there a law that they speak even slightly negatively about, but rather they contain universally high praise for the Mosaic Law, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of the Mosaic Law, then we will share it, as Paul did (Romans 7:22).

Hi thanks for the reply and your work .

The letter of the law from my experience. . .is something many seem to avoid it as if a plague

I would offer the bible give us the meaning hid from the lost

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, (the law of faith believing God not seen ) and not in the oldness of the letter. . . .(deader than a door nail) .

Psalm 19 is a remnant as letter of the law as it is written "scripture" . . written in the book of prophecy or called the book of Gods' law nothing can be added to it or taken away from it.

The letter of the law is the one instrument of death (Obey or in sufferings die. . never to rise. )

Psalm 19 as a parable shows its power working in those to both hear the will and empower them to it to his good pleasure . (Philippians 2:13)

The letter of the law death as in dead never not rise up and receive born again life . It will not condemn another whole creation to annihilation . We will have a new law . . faith working with the old death . Where aging leading toward death will not be remembered or ever come to mind

Now is the time we can do the good works yoked with Christ . . Under the Sun we can mix the two. . comparing that not seen the eternal things of God to that seen the temporal dying mankind . Both the just you will die and the justifier you will rise to new life. . one new perfect law of faith

You could say its universal alzheimer's ......never remember the things of the flesh

Ecclesiastics 9: 5-7 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God "now" accepteth thy works.

 

[Soyeong]

Not that it is relevant how many people have told who what---but if a person says they are not under law, but grace (and I question whether many say "God's law", but simply say they are not under law) they are quoting the Bible, or paraphrasing it. (Romans 6:14-15) So how are they perverting the gospel? Paul says it is not a license to sin. But that does not mean we are under law. You simply do not know what the NT scriptures mean by under law. The new covenant is by grace through faith. It has no laws as the old covenant did. The writings of the OT were written by those who were under legal, binding, laws.

Being under a law refers to being obligated to obey it. It is by the Law of God that we have knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20), without it we wouldn't even know what sin is (Romans 7:7), and sin is defined as the transgression of it (1 John 3:4), so if someone were not under God's law, then they would have no obligation to refrain from doing what it reveals to be sin, which would be a license to sin. Likewise, if the New Covenant had no laws, then we would be free to do what God has revealed through His law to be sin, so we would again have a license to sin, but rather the New Covenant involves God putting His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33), so I don't really see how you can claim that it has no laws.

I agree that saying that we are not under the law but under grace is quoting from the Bible, which is why I said that I agreed that we are not under the law, however, the problem is that interpreting that verse as referring to the Law of God means that we have a license to sin, which is why I argued that a law where sin had dominion over us should instead be interpreted as referring to the law of sin.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the nations, and the Law of God was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, so the message that we are not under the Law of God and don't need to repent from transgressing it is the opposite of the Gospel message. If someone were not under the Law of God, then there would be no point in spreading the Gospel to them.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

 

[Arial]

Being under a law refers to being obligated to obey it. It is by the Law of God that we have knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20), without it we wouldn't even know what sin is (Romans 7:7), and sin is defined as the transgression of it (1 John 3:4), so if someone were not under God's law, then they would have no obligation to refrain from doing what it reveals to be sin, which would be a license to sin. Likewise, if the New Covenant had no laws, then we would be free to do what God has revealed through His law to be sin, so we would again have a license to sin, but rather the New Covenant involves God putting His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33), so I don't really see how you can claim that it has no laws.

Reasoning from the position of works righteousness and not making a distinction between Law (Mosaic covenant Law) and law of God which is quite obviously obedience to righteousness, not Laws. The Mosaic Covenant Law has done its job in revealing unrighteousness and disclosing sin. We can read it. We don't have to experience being under that Law. If we are under it, are we not also subject to its penalties, and condemned by it?

Jesus fulfilled all of the Mosaic covenant Law, both in letter and in the spirit of the law contained in it. For us. No one but Him ever did or ever could. And in doing so He removed the curse of the Law by nailing our sins to the cross. It can no longer condemn those who are in Him by grace and through faith.

Are the Mosaic covenant laws listed and define in the OT? Yes. Where is the list of Laws required to be kept in the new covenant?

One who is placed in Christ has His righteousness counted at theirs because they are in Him. And not by works of righteousness, or obeying the Law, but by grace and through faith, which itself is a gift of God. It is then and only then that by virtue of being in Him that we begin to bear the fruit of righteousness, and that to is from being fed by and abiding in the Vine. Outside of that, no obedience is enough to be called not a sinner and gain eternal life. Why do you think Jesus went to the cross and what exactly to you think He accomplished if we are still in the same boat and bound by the same Law?

 

[Soyeong]

Hi thanks for the reply and your work .

The letter of the law from my experience. . .is something many seem to avoid it as if a plague

I would offer the bible give us the meaning hid from the lost

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, (the law of faith believing God not seen ) and not in the oldness of the letter. . . .(deader than a door nail) .

Psalm 19 is a remnant as letter of the law as it is written "scripture" . . written in the book of prophecy or called the book of Gods' law nothing can be added to it or taken away from it.

The letter of the law is the one instrument of death (Obey or in sufferings die. . never to rise. )

Psalm 19 as a parable shows its power working in those to both hear the will and empower them to it to his good pleasure . (Philippians 2:13)

The letter of the law death as in dead never not rise up and receive born again life . It will not condemn another whole creation to annihilation . We will have a new law . . faith working with the old death . Where aging leading toward death will not be remembered or ever come to mind

Now is the time we can do the good works yoked with Christ . . Under the Sun we can mix the two. . comparing that not seen the eternal things of God to that seen the temporal dying mankind . Both the just you will die and the justifier you will rise to new life. . one new perfect law of faith

You could say its universal alzheimer's ......never remember the things of the flesh

Ecclesiastics 9: 5-7 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God "now" accepteth thy works.

I agree that "the letter of the law" leads to death and should be avoided like the plague, but what exactly was Paul referring to by that phrase?

2 Corinthians 3:6 who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The New Covenant involves God putting His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33) and God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and sending His Spirit to lead us to obey His law (Ezekiel 36:26-27) and there are an abundance of verses that say that obedience to God's law is the way to eternal life, so what Paul was referring to by "the letter of the law" should be understood in a way that is in accordance with these other verses and not in a way that contradicts them.

Again, if "the letter of the law" refers to correctly obeying what God has commanded and doing that leads to death, then that would mean that God is leading us to death and should not be trusted. All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law and even Jesus began his ministry with that Gospel message, so it seems to me that someone should be quicker to think that they must have misunderstood 2 Corinthians 3:6 than to think that is makes perfect sense to interpret a servant of God as warning us against obeying Him and saying that following God leads to death rather than life.

In Romans 7:22-23, Paul said that he delighted in obeying the Law of God, but contrasted that with the law of sin, which held him captive? Does it make sense to you to think that Paul delighted in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death (Romans 7:5) or that he delighted in being held captive (Romans 7:6)? Rather, it is the law of sin that he described as holding him captive. The Spirit is God, so does it make sense to you to think that following the leading of the Spirit is in opposition to following what God has commanded or to think that God would command something that was in opposition to following His Spirit?

In Romans 7:12-13, Paul said that the Law of God is good and that it was not that which is good that brought death to him.

 

[Soyeong]

You still missing it, Christs Obedience was to the Law of God, He was made under the Law Gal 4:4 not for Himself, but for them He represented, so everyone He obeyed for are made righteous. This being made righteous is keeping the commandments of God of perfectly for them. Rom 5:19;8:3-4

Walking after the Spirit is living by Faith in Christ, faith is a fruit of the Spirit.

Now if you dont believe in Christ as your righteousness, keeping the Law in your behalf, you are under the curse of the law, unless of course God gives you faith in Christ

In Romans 3:21-22, it does not say that the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through perfect obedience, but rather the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets is through faith in Christ for all who believe. Even if someone managed to live in perfect obedience to God's law, then they still would not earn their righteousness as a wage, so that was never the goal for why we should obey it. Nowhere do either Romans 5:19 or 8:3-4 speak about Jesus obeying the law for us. Christ did not deprive us of the gift of getting to practice righteousness in obedience to God's law, but rather he gave us that gift. It would be horrible news if we didn't get to practice righteousness, but were only counted as righteous by Christ robbing us of getting to do that by doing it on our behalf and that would sell God's gift of salvation far short of its mark. Christ being our rightness means that we get to practice righteousness, not that he did it on our behalf. In Deuteronomy 28, it lists the blessing of getting to obey God's law and the curse of not obeying it, so Christ obeying it on our behalf is what would be putting us under the curse of the law instead of freeing us from the curse the law so that we could be free to enjoy the blessing of getting to obey it. Christ is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to have faith in him instead of faith in God's word.

 

[Arial]

I agree that saying that we are not under the law but under grace is quoting from the Bible, which is why I said that I agreed that we are not under the law, however, the problem is that interpreting that verse as referring to the Law of God means that we have a license to sin, which is why I argued that a law where sin had dominion over us should instead be interpreted as referring to the law of sin.

Who does that? Is it just that you imagine those in Christ would do that and it is your own fear or uncertainty without the constraints of Law keeping you in line? Relax. Trust God. Trust Christ, both the author of our faith and the finisher of our faith. Where do you find in scriptures a law of sin? Jesus delivered us from the law of sin and death. IOW He defeated those two enemies once and for all for the believer, those He died for. Our sins can no longer condemn us and death can no more hold us than it could the perfect righteous Christ.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the nations, and the Law of God was how his audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, so the message that we are not under the Law of God and don't need to repent from transgressing it is the opposite of the Gospel message. If someone were not under the Law of God, then there would be no point in spreading the Gospel to them.

The doctrine of salvation by grace through faith does not say that we are not to repent. And you forget, that in Romans 1 Paul goes to great lengths to drive home the message that all are guilty before God, those with the Law and those without the Law. All have fallen short of the glory of God is something that needs to be more closely examined rather than as just a truthful saying. It gives us the eternal perfection of Creator God who made us in His image and likeness, and as such are meant to be creatures who reflect that image perfectly if not exactly. And it is not only the sins we commit ourselves but that we have become a creature, a type of being, who is a sinful creature. Every man, woman, and child, ever born or who ever will be born, is a subject of God and subject to Him.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

The author was under covenant Law and so speaks in terms of the covenant Law, but as you say, it was not done in a legalistic way by rote obedience, but because faith in God was attached to it, and he understood what the covenant Law was teaching Him and would teach Him and that the only thing that mattered was what God revealed to Him through the Law. As NT covenant believers, brought into that covenant, by God, and through faith we have the same love for God, and faith in Him, that made those of faith in the old covenant love and learn from the Law. And from this we obey Him, not Law, but Him. We love righteousness and hate sin.

 

[brightfame52]

In Romans 3:21-22, it does not say that the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through perfect obedience, but rather the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets is through faith in Christ for all who believe. Even if someone managed to live in perfect obedience to God's law, then they still would not earn their righteousness as a wage, so that was never the goal for why we should obey it. Nowhere do either Romans 5:19 or 8:3-4 speak about Jesus obeying the law for us. Christ did not deprive us of the gift of getting to practice righteousness in obedience to God's law, but rather he gave us that gift. It would be horrible news if we didn't get to practice righteousness, but were only counted as righteous by Christ robbing us of getting to do that by doing it on our behalf and that would sell God's gift of salvation far short of its mark. Christ being our rightness means that we get to practice righteousness, not that he did it on our behalf. In Deuteronomy 28, it lists the blessing of getting to obey God's law and the curse of not obeying it, so Christ obeying it on our behalf is what would be putting us under the curse of the law instead of freeing us from the curse the law so that we could be free to enjoy the blessing of getting to obey it. Christ is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to have faith in him instead of faith in God's word.

You trusting in your own righteousness friend, and not the Gift of Law Keeping Righteousness Christ has given to them He obeyed in behalf of. Rom 5:19

 

[Soyeong]

Reasoning from the position of works righteousness and not making a distinction between Law (Mosaic covenant Law) and law of God which is quite obviously obedience to righteousness, not Laws. The Mosaic Covenant Law has done its job in revealing unrighteousness and disclosing sin. We can read it. We don't have to experience being under that Law. If we are under it, are we not also subject to its penalties, and condemned by it?

In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded without departing from it, so all of the Law of Moses is the Law of God as it is referred to as such in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23.

The only way to become righteous is through faith apart from being required to have first done a certain amount of righteous works as through it could be earned as a wage, becoming righteous means to become someone who practices righteousness, and it is contradictory to become righteous apart from becoming someone who practices righteousness, which is why the faith by which we are declared righteous does not abolish our need to practice righteousness in obedience to God's law, but rather that faith upholds it (Romans 3:28-31). God's law is His instructions for how to practice righteousness, not for how to become righteous. For example, God law reveals that helping the poor is a way to practice righteousness, but no amount of helping the poor will ever cause someone to become righteous as the result because the only way to become righteous is through faith. So when God declares us to be righteous through faith, that means He is declaring us to be someone who practices righteousness through the same faith in obedience to His law in accordance with the example Christ set for us to follow.

God's law was give as a gift to teach us to know Him through practicing holiness, righteousness, and goodness (Romans 7:12) and only reveals our unrighteousness by contrasted. There reason why there is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ is because he gave himself to pay the penalty for our sins, which should make us want to go and sin no more in obedience to it, not consider ourselves to be free from being under it.

Jesus fulfilled all of the Mosaic covenant Law, both in letter and in the spirit of the law contained in it. For us. No one but Him ever did or ever could. And in doing so He removed the curse of the Law by nailing our sins to the cross. It can no longer condemn those who are in Him by grace and through faith.

To fulfill the law means "to cause God's will (as made known through His law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo). After Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in Matthew 5, he then proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be. According to Galatians 5:14, anyone who has ever loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so it refers to something that countless people have done, which again is correctly obeying it as it should be. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from the law, but in order to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what he accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

Are the Mosaic covenant laws listed and define in the OT? Yes. Where is the list of Laws required to be kept in the new covenant?

The New Covenant instructs us to repent from our sin the the Mosaic Law was given to give us knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20).

One who is placed in Christ has His righteousness counted at theirs because they are in Him. And not by works of righteousness, or obeying the Law, but by grace and through faith, which itself is a gift of God. It is then and only then that by virtue of being in Him that we begin to bear the fruit of righteousness, and that to is from being fed by and abiding in the Vine. Outside of that, no obedience is enough to be called not a sinner and gain eternal life. Why do you think Jesus went to the cross and what exactly to you think He accomplished if we are still in the same boat and bound by the same Law?

In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked and he walked in obedience to God's law, so following his example of how he expressed his righteousness is the way that his righteousness is ours, which is by grace through faith, and which itself is a gift of God. We have the gift of getting to experience the expression of God's righteousness by obeying His law, how cool is that? God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus (John 17:3) and the gift of God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience through expressing His nature (Exodus 33:13, Matthew 7:23), not something that we need to obey first in order to earn eternal life as a wage.

 

[Soyeong]

You trusting in your own righteousness friend, and not the Gift of Law Keeping Righteousness Christ has given to them He obeyed in behalf of. Rom 5:19

It is contradictory to think that I am trusting in myself by trusting in what God has instructed. Jesus is God's word made flesh, or in other words, he is the embodiment of God's word expressed through setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to it, so the way for us to have faith in him is by also embodying God's word through following his example. It is contradictory to become righteous without becoming someone who practices righteousness, so you should not interpret Paul was teaching something that is contradictory.

 

[brightfame52]

It is contradictory to think that I am trusting in myself by trusting in what God has instructed. Jesus is God's word made flesh, or in other words, he is the embodiment of God's word expressed through setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to it, so the way for us to have faith in him is by also embodying God's word through following his example. It is contradictory to become righteous without becoming someone who practices righteousness, so you should not interpret Paul was teaching something that is contradictory.

You either have Christs Perfect Law Keeping Obedience for Righteousness charged to you, or your own law keeping obedience in which case you are under the curse of the law.

 

[Soyeong]

You either have Christs Perfect Law Keeping Obedience for Righteousness charged to you, or your own law keeping obedience in which case you are under the curse of the law.

In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments, but it does not speak about those who had faith in Jesus instead of keeping God's commandments. It is contradictory to want to have faith in God's word made flesh while refusing to have faith in God's word. Christ expresses His righteousness through living in obedience to God's law, so that is also the way that we live when we have his righteousness changed to us. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult to obey and that obedience brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! In Psalms 119:1-3, God's law blesses those who obey it, and there are many verses that repeated say the same thing, while it is those who refuse to submit to God's law that come under its curse.

 

[brightfame52]

In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments, but it does not speak about those who had faith in Jesus instead of keeping God's commandments. It is contradictory to want to have faith in God's word made flesh while refusing to have faith in God's word. Christ expresses His righteousness through living in obedience to God's law, so that is also the way that we live when we have his righteousness changed to us. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult to obey and that obedience brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! In Psalms 119:1-3, God's law blesses those who obey it, and there are many verses that repeated say the same thing, while it is those who refuse to submit to God's law that come under the curse of the law.

I have shown you, those who Christ made righteous by His Obedience Rom 5:19 they are keeping the commandments of God. The word righteous dikaios:
ighteous, observing divine laws

1. in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God

So the ones in Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Are the same who are made righteous by the Obedience of One Rom 5:19

9 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

They keep the Faith of Jesus Christ, meaning they live by Faith in Jesus and what His Faithfulness did for them.

May God be pleased to give you Faith in Christ, instead of you trusting in your own righteousness

 

[Soyeong]

I have shown you, those who Christ made righteous by His Obedience Rom 5:19 they are keeping the commandments of God. The word righteous dikaios:
ighteous, observing divine laws

1. in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God

So the ones in Rev 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Are the same who are made righteous by the Obedience of One Rom 5:19

9 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

They keep the Faith of Jesus Christ, meaning they live by Faith in Jesus and what His Faithfulness did for them.

May God be pleased to give you Faith in Christ, instead of you trusting in your own righteousness

If you believe that those who Christ made righteous by his obedience are keeping he commandment of God, then why did you present it as a choice between being made righteous by Christ or keeping the commandments of God?:

"You either have Christs Perfect Law Keeping Obedience for Righteousness charged to you, or your own law keeping obedience in which case you are under the curse of the law."

 

[brightfame52]

If you believe that those who Christ made righteous by his obedience are keeping he commandment of God, then why did you present it as a choice between being made righteous by Christ or keeping the commandments of God?:

"You either have Christs Perfect Law Keeping Obedience for Righteousness charged to you, or your own law keeping obedience in which case you are under the curse of the law."

I said nothing about a choice. Please show me where I used the word or words "you have a choice"

 

[Soyeong]

I said nothing about a choice. Please show me where I used the word or words "you have a choice"

You said that I either have one or the other, so if that is not a choice, then what is it?

 

[brightfame52]

You said that I either have one or the other, so if that is not a choice, then what is it?

Its the truth. And I never said you had a choice, because its Gods choice.

 

[Arial]

In Deuteronomy 5:31-33, Moses wrote down everything that God commanded without departing from it, so all of the Law of Moses is the Law of God as it is referred to as such in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23.

The only way to become righteous is through faith apart from being required to have first done a certain amount of righteous works as through it could be earned as a wage, becoming righteous means to become someone who practices righteousness, and it is contradictory to become righteous apart from becoming someone who practices righteousness, which is why the faith by which we are declared righteous does not abolish our need to practice righteousness in obedience to God's law, but rather that faith upholds it (Romans 3:28-31). God's law is His instructions for how to practice righteousness, not for how to become righteous. For example, God law reveals that helping the poor is a way to practice righteousness, but no amount of helping the poor will ever cause someone to become righteous as the result because the only way to become righteous is through faith. So when God declares us to be righteous through faith, that means He is declaring us to be someone who practices righteousness through the same faith in obedience to His law in accordance with the example Christ set for us to follow.

God's law was give as a gift to teach us to know Him through practicing holiness, righteousness, and goodness (Romans 7:12) and only reveals our unrighteousness by contrasted. There reason why there is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ is because he gave himself to pay the penalty for our sins, which should make us want to go and sin no more in obedience to it, not consider ourselves to be free from being under it.


To fulfill the law means "to cause God's will (as made known through His law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo). After Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in Matthew 5, he then proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be. According to Galatians 5:14, anyone who has ever loved their neighbor has fulfilled the entire law, so it refers to something that countless people have done, which again is correctly obeying it as it should be. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from the law, but in order to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what he accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).


The New Covenant instructs us to repent from our sin the the Mosaic Law was given to give us knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20).


In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked and he walked in obedience to God's law, so following his example of how he expressed his righteousness is the way that his righteousness is ours, which is by grace through faith, and which itself is a gift of God. We have the gift of getting to experience the expression of God's righteousness by obeying His law, how cool is that? God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus (John 17:3) and the gift of God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience through expressing His nature (Exodus 33:13, Matthew 7:23), not something that we need to obey first in order to earn eternal life as a wage.

Before I tackle responding to this I need you to clarify for me what your theological background and religious affiliation is. I find what you say most unclear as to what it is really saying, and we need to get on level ground so we do not talk past one another.

 

[Soyeong]

Its the truth. And I never said you had a choice, because its Gods choice.

What do you think would have been a better word choice between the two?