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The disparity (disunity) in Calvinism

yeah, yeah, yeah. We've been through that. You were asked to post evidence and you were sked many times over, again and again and ignore every request and never posted any evidence whatsoever. I ran a poll among the Cals in one thread (maybe it was this one :unsure:) and the all demonstrated a unity that not only refutes the OP, but prove we can provide evidence where you cannot.

Your claims are meaningless, and you are losing whatever credibility you might have ever had with every post you make.
I'm sorry that you have chosen to take the course of insulting me (and my Lord, Matthew 25:40), in that you will not take my word for it in what I have been saying to you but instead choose to call me (and my Lord, Matthew 25:40) a liar.
 
Have you got scripture explicitly refuting that?
Yes, and I also know when a person is trying to shift the burden away from proving his own claims - claims he made first - trying to place the onus on others. Because your claim came first, and you were asked first to post you proof I expect you to do so and not try to foist that off on others.
No, I believe that a person is enabled to receive Christ at the point of being drawn;
Great. Show me the scripture explicitly stating a person is enabled to receive Christ at the point of being drawn to Christ. Should not have to ask more than once.
....and that this is not the same as regeneration.
And no one has said otherwise. This is twice now I have noted no one is saying being drawn and regeneration are identical or synonymous. This is a red herring, a clue or piece of information that is, or is intended to be, misleading or distracting. Red herrings are fallacious. I'm telling you this so you'll have the opportunity to correct this error by not posting irrelevancy ad nauseam (which is another fallacy. No one is claiming being drawn and regeneration are the same thing. Stick to the point at hand.


Have you got scripture explicitly stating a person is enabled to receive Christ at the point of being drawn to Christ?
 
And no one has said otherwise. This is twice now I have noted no one is saying being drawn and regeneration are identical or synonymous. This is a red herring, a clue or piece of information that is, or is intended to be, misleading or distracting. Red herrings are fallacious. I'm telling you this so you'll have the opportunity to correct this error by not posting irrelevancy ad nauseam (which is another fallacy. No one is claiming being drawn and regeneration are the same thing. Stick to the point at hand.


Have you got scripture explicitly stating a person is enabled to receive Christ at the point of being drawn to Christ?
Yes, John 6:44.

Now, what scripture do you have that explicitly refutes the idea that a person is enabled to receive Christ in being drawn to Christ?

And I would venture to say that if I had not cut it off at the pass, that some Calvinist would say at some point that being drawn = being given (i.e. regenerated).

I have seen them preach these things before; whether you are inclined to believe me on this or not.

btw, in not believing me, are you not calling me (and my Lord, Matthew 25:40) a liar?

That is an insult that can be identified as thorns and thistles (Matthew 7:15-20).
 
Very simply, John 6:44.
Well, let's see.

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

That verse does not explicitly state a person is enabled. You were asked for a verse explicitly stating a person is enabled to receive Christ at the point of being drawn to Christ. John 6:44 makes no such statement. You were specifically asked NOT to pick a verse read inferentially, but that is in fact what you've done. The Greek term for "draws" is the term used when hauling a fishing net out of the water. The English should read "hauls" not the more passive "draws." This is also important because everyone is drawn or hauled before Christ but they are not all brought before him in salvation. The exact same cross that saves is the same cross that judges. Because of that dual purpose Christ serves your position is going to fall apart because not all are enabled to receive him when hauled to Jesus.

But, I will give you the opportunity to prove me wrong. John 6:44 does not do that. You are reading something into the verse the verse does not actually state. So, let's try this again.

Have you got scripture explicitly stating a person is enabled to receive Christ at the point of being drawn to Christ?
 
Now, what scripture do you have that explicitly refutes the idea that a person is enabled to receive Christ in being drawn to Christ?
Oh no, you don't get to shift the burden. John 6:44 does not meet the stipulated criteria. The onus is still on you to provide a verse explicitly stating a person is enabled to receive Christ at the point of being drawn to Christ.
 
And I would venture to say that if I had not cut it off at the pass, that some Calvinist would say at some point that being drawn = being given (i.e. regenerated). I have seen them preach these things before; whether you are inclined to believe me on this or not. btw, in not believing me, are you not calling me (and my Lord, Matthew 25:40) a liar? That is an insult that can be identified as thorns and thistles (Matthew 7:15-20).
Trolling. That section of Post 144 is abject baiting, flaming, trolling. It's all off-topic. None of it has anything to do with the subject being discussed. You've been asked to stop and asked to stop for your own benefit, not just ours. Stop it.
 
Now, @Arial,

What is your answer to the deep theological question,

Who is God?
God is the Creator of all that is. He created it by the word of His mouth, and every speck of His creation contains within it physical elements that we define as science and some of which He has revealed to us, for His own glory, that we might glimpse His power and perfection, His trustworthiness and oh my goodness, His faithfulness. Daily since the beginning of our world the earth turns with precision upon its axis, sunrise, sunset, one season follows another without fail. All suspended by His power in space and upheld by the might of His power. Every star, every planet doing as God commands for His purpose. Oh that we would be so faithful to our Creator as the creation itself is.

A seed falls upon the earth and everything needed for that seed to sprout and become a tree, God has placed perfectly within the seed and the earth and the heavens. Sunlight and warmth for growth, all the elements in the very dirt that are needed for nourishment, He has designed and placed there. He sends rain, rain He creates and sends where He wills, to water the earth, cold and snow for a time of rest. And that is just a tree!

All of these things are in everything God created. The wisdom and knowledge He must contain is unfathomable to our finite minds, but what joy He brings us to contemplate Him this way. Look at the perfect functioning and design of the systems of life that operate in perfect unity. Molecules, and dna, cells, brain, heart etc. all sustained by the very breath of life from the giver of life who is life. Should He turn away for but a moment, every bit of it would cease to exist. He made us able to think, and make, and move and we do it all in Him and there is no other way. He knows every bird that falls by name, sets a flight path for migrations and tells the migrators when to go. When we destroy their habitats, He sets them on a new course. He tells the deer when to lie down and give birth.

He reveals Himself as being perfect in righteousness and holiness and perfect in all His ways. So alien is that to fallen man in his falleness and finiteness that we can not grasp such a thing, yet we know it because He tells us. Why does He tell us I wonder? Could it be for His glory. Could it be to make His glory known in us as it is made known in His infinite and every new painting in the sky, new and never repeated, as feathery clouds reach our eyes, feathery in a wind so high we cannot feel it, shifting and changing by light cast on them, first one way and then another, caught gold here by the sun, pale yellow there as winter light seeps through and patterns on floors or shimmers on rust colored leaves dancing, just dancing for joy in the wind. I cannot go on. I can only cry "Behold! Behold! Behold! But His glory covers the earth, everywhere and all the time.

Could it be that as His crowning glory of creation, we are being taken to a place through His reaching down to us, and healing His own through the suffering and death of His Son, He is taking us to the place where we reside with Him, made holy like our Father who loves us, to live,actually live! within that glory that we now only see. Rescued.

His mercy is seen too in that in spite of man's treason against Him, and as a result He subjected the entire creation to the damage we do, and subject to natural disasters, yet we remain, and His faithfulness stands true. He continues to water the earth and to unhold it.

Though we see His love in all of this He hates evil and wickedness as only perfect love can. So His own glory demands that we see, this is what I do to evil, I bring it under judgement, and I destroy it. And we shout "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and evermore shall be. It is to His glory that He does this. And He sent His Son to do the work of saving a people in mercy, and He does this by defeating the power of sin and death by facing their judgement for those He came to save and setting them free.
 
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I see that you put me on Ignore because of this question...
I hadn't even read that post when I put you on ignore. I only read it this morning and I answered it. So as usual your assumptions about me and accusations against me are WRONG. You would think you would learn after awhile and keep them to yourself so as not to look like such a jerk.
 
Well, let's see.

John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.

That verse does not explicitly state a person is enabled. You were asked for a verse explicitly stating a person is enabled to receive Christ at the point of being drawn to Christ. John 6:44 makes no such statement. You were specifically asked NOT to pick a verse read inferentially, but that is in fact what you've done. The Greek term for "draws" is the term used when hauling a fishing net out of the water. The English should read "hauls" not the more passive "draws." This is also important because everyone is drawn or hauled before Christ but they are not all brought before him in salvation. The exact same cross that saves is the same cross that judges. Because of that dual purpose Christ serves your position is going to fall apart because not all are enabled to receive him when hauled to Jesus.

But, I will give you the opportunity to prove me wrong. John 6:44 does not do that. You are reading something into the verse the verse does not actually state. So, let's try this again.

Have you got scripture explicitly stating a person is enabled to receive Christ at the point of being drawn to Christ?
If you don't want to accept the plain meaning of John 6:44 as saying what it says because of your Calvinistic bias, then that is on you.

God will hold you accountable; because His Spirit testifies that John 6:44 speaks of the fact that, in drawing a person to Christ, He enables them to either receive or reject Christ.

They cannot come to Christ unless the Holy Spirit draws them; and therefore when the Holy Spirit draws them, they become able to receive or reject Christ.

That is clear to me; I am uncertain as to why it is not also clear to you.
 
Oh no, you don't get to shift the burden. John 6:44 does not meet the stipulated criteria. The onus is still on you to provide a verse explicitly stating a person is enabled to receive Christ at the point of being drawn to Christ.
I'm sorry that you do not accept the plain testimony of John 6:44.

It is obvious to me that you do not have any scripture that refutes that testimony as I see it being presented to us all.
 
I believe that the answer can be found in 1 John 4:8,16, John 3:16.

(2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:4)?
There is no 2 Peter 3:9.

What is interesting is that you gave no scriptures of God declaring Himself as to who He is. For example Job chapters 38-40; Psalm 115:3; Romans 11:33; Dan 4:35; Is 46:10; 1Chron 29:11;Ex 4:11
 
There is no 2 Peter 3:9.
Yes there is.

It says,

2Pe 3:9, The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

And when it says "any" and "all" it is clearly referring to all those who need repentance; which includes every sinner.
 
Yes there is.

It says,

2Pe 3:9, The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

And when it says "any" and "all" it is clearly referring to all those who need repentance; which includes every sinner.
You are right there is a 2 Peter 3:9. I googled it twice and it came up cannot be found. Nevertheless that does not tell us who God is as God.
 
I am not rejecting the gospel, you are rejecting it.
How old are you? Two?
You have a personal responsibility to receive Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour from sin.

If you don't do that, you will go to hell; regardless of whether you think you have been regenerated apart from faith or not
What does that have to do with what I said?
 
I'm sorry that you have chosen to take the course of insulting me (and my Lord, Matthew 25:40), in that you will not take my word for it in what I have been saying to you but instead choose to call me (and my Lord, Matthew 25:40) a liar.
Take your word for it? Here's and idea. Why don't you take our word for it when we refute your claims? Why is your word more trustworthy than ours?
 
I'm sorry that you do not accept the plain testimony of John 6:44.

It is obvious to me that you do not have any scripture that refutes that testimony as I see it being presented to us all.
All the passages of John 6 pertaining to being drawn have been put under the microscope of biblical hermeneutics and exegesis four or five times and disproved your position every time. You have not bothered to put it under either of those things but just keep repeating "John 6:44, John 6:44" over and over again. Do your homework and show your work!
 
If you don't want to accept the plain meaning of John 6:44 as saying what it says because of your Calvinistic bias, then that is on you.

God will hold you accountable; because His Spirit testifies that John 6:44 speaks of the fact that, in drawing a person to Christ, He enables them to either receive or reject Christ.

They cannot come to Christ unless the Holy Spirit draws them; and therefore when the Holy Spirit draws them, they become able to receive or reject Christ.

That is clear to me; I am uncertain as to why it is not also clear to you.
What is clear is that you are making up your own doctrine and own meanings of scripture without ever bothering to care if they are right or wrong. John 6:44 says nothing even close to what you claim, you have been shown this repeatedly. It doesn't even work if you leave out all the context as you do.
 
Take your word for it? Here's and idea. Why don't you take our word for it when we refute your claims? Why is your word more trustworthy than ours?
You have not refuted any of my claims.
 
You are right there is a 2 Peter 3:9. I googled it twice and it came up cannot be found. Nevertheless that does not tell us who God is as God.
You should have searched for it in blue letter bible.

And the verse does tell us to a certain extent who God is.
 
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