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The disparity (disunity) in Calvinism

Keep reading. He moved the goal posts from Calvinism to Hyper Calvinism; while trying to keep the goal posts on Calvinism...
Yes, and he'll move the goalposts again. It's becoming increasingly apparent he does not correctly understand Calvinism and is arguing against his own appalling lack of knowledge and understanding.
 
All men are responsible to God to receive/believe in Christ and are accountable if they reject Him.

I have received Him because I believe that His person as Son of God and His work as Son of man, of perfect righteousness, going to the cross and substituting Himself and his righteousness for me; satisfying God's justice against my sins, dying the death they deserve in my place, rising from the dead because He had done nothing by which death could hold Him; in doing so defeated the power of sin to condemn me, and therefore death to hold me, assuring that one day I too will be resurrected to eternal life; that He ascended back to the Father, where He is now as my High Priest; and He will return in judgement of the wicked and usher in the new heaven and the new earth. Jesus and only Jesus is the way to God, and the only way to be reconciled to God.

I also openly declare that the only reason I believe those things is because the Father gave me to Son, as the Bible declares, and saved me by grace through faith, and that only, nothing I did or am in and of myself.
 
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Thanks. How about you @Carbon, @Arial, @makesends, @DialecticSkeptic, @David1701, @atpollard, @fastfredy0, is @Ladodgers6 around? Can you each post you understand?

Can we get
ALL THE CALVINISTS HERE IN THIS THREAD
to openly declare
they understand they are responsible to receive Christ
and they will be held accountable if they reject him?


Help this guy, @justbyfaith out.
Yup ... God commanded it, so everyone is responsible to obey and held accountable for failing to obey any command.

Hebrews 2:1-4 [NASB]
For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it. For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every violation and act of disobedience received a just punishment, how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders, and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will.
 
All you have to do is say that it is hyper-Calvinism that I am refuting on any given instance where I am not refuting basic Calvinism.

  • Deuteronomy 19:15 [NKJV] "One witness shall not rise against a man concerning any iniquity or any sin that he commits; by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established."
  • Proverbs 11:14 [NKJV] Where there is no counsel, the people fall; But in the multitude of counselors there is safety.

Hyper-Calvinism:​


GotQuestions:
A simple definition is this: hyper-Calvinism is the belief that God saves the elect through His sovereign will with little or no use of the methods of bringing about salvation (such as evangelism, preaching, and prayer for the lost). To an unbiblical fault, the hyper-Calvinist over-emphasizes God’s sovereignty and under-emphasizes man’s responsibility in the work of salvation.​
An obvious ramification of hyper-Calvinism is that it suppresses any desire to evangelize the lost. Most churches or denominations that hold to hyper-Calvinistic theology are marked by fatalism, coldness, and a lack of assurance of faith. There is little emphasis upon God’s love for the lost and His own people but rather an unbiblical preoccupation with God’s sovereignty, His election of the saved, and His wrath for the lost. The gospel of the hyper-Calvinist is a declaration of God’s salvation of the elect and His damnation of the lost.​
The Bible clearly teaches that God is sovereign over the entire universe (Daniel 4:34-35), including the salvation of men (Ephesians 1:3-12). But with God’s sovereignty, the Bible also teaches that His motivation for saving the lost is love (Ephesians 1:4-5; John 3:16; 1 John 4:9-10) and that God’s means of saving the lost is the proclamation of His Word (Romans 10:14-15). The Bible also declares that the Christian is to be passionate and determined in his/her sharing with unbelievers; as ambassadors for Christ, we are to "beg" people to be reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:20-21).​
Hyper-Calvinism takes a biblical doctrine, God’s sovereignty, and pushes it to an unbiblical extreme. In doing so, the hyper-Calvinist downplays the love of God and the necessity of evangelism.​

Stephen Nichols (Ask Ligonier)
Dr. Sproul helpfully described hyper-Calvinism this way: when it comes to double predestination, hyper-Calvinism is positive-positive. Dr. Sproul, on the other hand, spoke of double predestination as positive-negative. So, what does that mean?​
Positive election is election unto salvation, by which God brings us to Himself out of Adam’s sinful lump of condemnation and damnation. What R.C. described as negative is not damning people to hell, because we were all sinners destined for hell; it’s that God overlooks those who are not elect. That is why he referred to it as positive-negative. A way to summarize hyper-Calvinism is positive-positive. This way of looking at the decrees of God is not represented biblically.​

Peter Toon
[Hyper-Calvinism] was a system of theology, or a system of the doctrines of God, man and grace, which was framed to exalt and honour and glory of God and did so at the expense of minimising the moral and spiritual responsibility of sinners to God. It places excessive emphasis on the immanent acts of God–eternal justification, eternal adoption and the eternal covenant of grace. In practice, this meant that “Christ and Him crucified”, the central message of the apostles, was obscured.​
It also often made no distinction between the secret and the revealed will of God, and tried to deduce the duty of men from what it taught concerning the secret, eternal decrees of God.​
Excessive emphasis was also placed on the doctrine of irresistible grace with the tendency to state that an elect man is not only passive in regeneration but also in conversion as well. The absorbing interest in the eternal, immanent acts of God and in irresistible grace led to the notion that grace must only be offered to those for whom it was intended.​
Finally, a valid assurance of salvation was seen as consisting in an inner feeling and conviction of being eternally elected by God. So Hyper-Calvinism led its adherents to hold that evangelism was not necessary and to place much emphasis on introspection in order to discover whether or not one was elect. (144-45)​
 
Thanks. How about you @Carbon, @Arial, @makesends, @DialecticSkeptic, @David1701, @atpollard, @fastfredy0, is @Ladodgers6 around? Can you each post you understand?

Can we get
ALL THE CALVINISTS HERE IN THIS THREAD
to openly declare
they understand they are responsible to receive Christ
and they will be held accountable if they reject him?


Help this guy, @justbyfaith out.
Not sure how I am responsible to receive Christ; it happened to me. I do understand I am responsible to continue to submit to Christ, to love the Lord my God with all my heart, to obey him, to walk in fellowship with him, to pursue him and to not quench the Spirit of God who lives in me. And I understand that I will be held accountable for every idle word I speak and that if I reject Christ I will be held accountable. Maybe this is what he means, by "responsible to receive Christ": I am indeed responsible to open the door when he knocks.

And I'm not even a Calvinist, except by reputation. But I suppose they resemble me enough....so, ok.


What is interesting to me is that @justbyfaith doesn't seem to realize how much of what he believes is as a result of the Reformation.
 
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Not sure how I am responsible to receive Christ; it happened to me.
We're Justified through Faith Alone...

"Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me."
 
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We're Justified through Faith Alone...

"Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me."
I'm not sure how that shows we are responsible to "receive Christ" —I assume 'salvifically', is what is meant on the part of @justbyfaith.

But I thought the rest of what I said pretty well answered why I said that I am not so sure how we are 'responsible to accept Christ'. We most certainly are responsible to open the door to him. But that is fellowship, not justification. Personally, I think I received Christ when I received the Spirit of God, who also is God himself. And that was by no act of my will, but of God alone. So I say, it happened to me.
 
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No such condition exists in Calvinism and if you'd ever read Calvin, you'd know that. What you've done with that sentence is tell everyone you are motivated by a straw man.

ROTFLMBO!!!!

Okay. I understand it.

Can we get
ALL THE CALVINISTS HERE IN THIS THREAD
to openly declare
they understand they are responsible to receive Christ
and they will be held accountable if they reject him?

When all the Cals in this thread state they understand will you go away?
If @brightfame52 also states it then I will be satisfied.
 
I declare I understand I am responsible to receive Christ, and know I would be held accountable by God for rejecting Jesus as my LORD and Savior...

Sola Fide!
Yet you would affirm that if anyone is not of the elect, they cannot receive Christ because God has not chosen them.

How then are they responsible for their decision?

Seeing their rejection of Christ has its basis in the fact that God didn't choose them (making them of the elect).
 
Keep reading. He moved the goal posts from Calvinism to Hyper Calvinism; while trying to keep the goal posts on Calvinism...
I have always affirmed that some Calvinists may not believe the things that I have been refuting.

If that is now clarified to say that what I have been refuting is hyper-Calvinism rather than basic Calvinism, then what is your beef with me?

But there are even things in basic Calvinism that I take issue with.
 
Yet you would affirm that if anyone is not of the elect, they cannot receive Christ because God has not chosen them.

How then are they responsible for their decision?

Seeing their rejection of Christ has its basis in the fact that God didn't choose them (making them of the elect).
That's not what I affirm; if the Reprobate Believes the Gospel, Jesus will Save them...

Please, don't use your typical tactics with me. I told you, Calvinists aren't Hyper Calvinists...

We are Sola Fidests...
 
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Yes, we are responsible to believe in Jesus Christ and would be held accountable, if we rejected him.
I will say it to you, too, then.

Since, in basic Calvinism (correct me if I am wrong), God is the One who makes the primary decision, and there is no basis for salvation in our decisions; since, in basic Calvinism, if anyone is not of the elect, they cannot receive Christ because God has not chosen them;

How then can they be justly held responsible for their decision to reject Christ?

Because God rejected them first.
 
Yes, and he'll move the goalposts again. It's becoming increasingly apparent he does not correctly understand Calvinism and is arguing against his own appalling lack of knowledge and understanding.
I have been going based on what has been preached to me by Calvinists.

If I do not correctly understand the doctrine, it is because those who have preached it to me don't correctly understand it.

Yet they probably think that they do.

And we are to take your word for it that you correctly understand it?
 
My opponents haven't moved the goal posts on many occasions, of course; in that they keep saying that what I have refuted as Calvinism is not actually Calvinism.

I put it forth to you that they are the ones who have moved the goal posts in declaring that I have been refuting hyper-Calvinism all along.

Yet there are certain things in basic Calvinism that I have also been refuting.
 
Not sure how I am responsible to receive Christ; it happened to me. I do understand I am responsible to continue to submit to Christ, to love the Lord my God with all my heart, to obey him, to walk in fellowship with him, to pursue him and to not quench the Spirit of God who lives in me. And I understand that I will be held accountable for every idle word I speak and that if I reject Christ I will be held accountable. Maybe this is what he means, by "responsible to receive Christ": I am indeed responsible to open the door when he knocks.

And I'm not even a Calvinist, except by reputation. But I suppose they resemble me enough....so, ok.


What is interesting to me is that @justbyfaith doesn't seem to realize how much of what he believes is as a result of the Reformation.
I believe in much of what was in the reformation and maybe even to the point of being called a Calvinist myself on some occasions.

I think that there has been a huge misunderstanding in that I have been refuting hyper-Calvinism and some have thought that I was attempting to refute basic Calvinism in that.

However, there are certain things in basic Calvinism that I also take issue with.
 
That's not what I affirm; if the Reprobate Believes the Gospel, Jesus will Save them...

Please, don't use your typical tactics with me. I told you, Calvinists aren't Hyper Calvinists...

We are Sola Fidests...
Let's just say that I have been refuting hyper-Calvinism all along; while I also take issue with some doctrines in basic Calvinism.

So, if some of the lines are blurred, it is for everyone to attempt to clarify things and make sure that everything is correctly understood.
 
Let's just say that I have been refuting hyper-Calvinism all along; while I also take issue with some doctrines in basic Calvinism.

So, if some of the lines are blurred, it is for everyone to attempt to clarify things and make sure that everything is correctly understood.
The 5-Solas are unique in this way; it's as if each Sola Alone were the sole requirement to be Saved. This is how important each is to Christianity. Martin Luther was prepared to die for Justification through Faith Alone...
 
The 5-Solas are unique in this way; it's as if each Sola Alone were the sole requirement to be Saved. This is how important each is to Christianity. Martin Luther was prepared to die for Justification through Faith Alone...
"justification by faith alone" indicates that a person may not be saved apart from faith.

The idea that regeneration precedes faith is in contradiction to this idea.

If regeneration precedes faith, then faith is not really necessary.

(May the Lord open all of your eyes to see it).

And may you all realize that in this, Calvinism offers to the unbelieving soul a valid excuse not to believe in, receive, and follow Christ; while still believing that they have been saved: thus giving them a false assurance of salvation.
 
"justification by faith alone" indicates that a person may not be saved apart from faith.

The idea that regeneration precedes faith is in contradiction to this idea.
Nay, noooo! "Justification by faith alone" indicates that a person cannot be saved apart from faith.

The idea that regeneration logically precedes faith (causes faith) could also be described as both being of the same source. The faith is an intrinsic part of being born again, both caused by the Spirit of God. We say that regeneration is the result of the Spirit moving in, but it could also be said to be fact that the Spirit taking up residence IS the regeneration, and that the terminology difference is only in the focus. Either way, the faith is produced by what happens, and that, directly by the will of the Spirit of God, and not by the will of the elect.

If regeneration precedes faith, then faith is not really necessary.
(May the Lord open all of your eyes to see it).
What do you think faith is?

And what makes you think your eyes are open?
And may you all realize that in this, Calvinism offers to the unbelieving soul a valid excuse not to believe in, receive, and follow Christ; while still believing that they have been saved: thus giving them a false assurance of salvation.
And may you realize that drawing doctrine on what seems practical to you is full of self-importance.

But interestingly, though this is not the first time I've heard this, Calvinism is usually accused of not offering assurance of salvation.
 
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