The Called !

[brightfame52]

It is those who love God that are called. Loving God is the prerequisite to being called, not vice versa.

The saved loves God with a New Heart, so they are called after they are saved. See in order to Love God, God must perform a Spiritual Circumcision Deut 30:6

And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

 

[JIM]

The saved loves God with a New Heart, so they are called after they are saved. See in order to Love God, God must perform a Spiritual Circumcision Deut 30:6

And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

But that was all contingent upon what was said earlier in verses 1-5. That entire passage deals with repentance and forgiveness. Forgiveness is always dependent upon repentance. That is followed up in verses 11-20 which deals with the CHOICE of life or death. Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,

 

[brightfame52]

But that was all contingent upon what was said earlier in verses 1-5. That entire passage deals with repentance and forgiveness. Forgiveness is always dependent upon repentance. That is followed up in verses 11-20 which deals with the CHOICE of life or death. Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,

Only Chosen the saved are called.

 

[Johan]

That God calls only a remnant is intimated in Joel 2:32

2:28-29 "your sons and daughters. . .old men. . .young men. . .male and female servants" Notice the elements of equality mentioned:

no difference in sex
no difference in age
no difference in social standing (cf. Rom. 3:22; 1 Cor. 12:13; Gal. 3:28; Col. 3:11)
God will pour out His Spirit on all mankind. This inclusion is a fulfillment of Moses' prayer in Num. 11:29 and a sign that the New covenant has come (cf. Jer. 31:34).

The inclusion may also reflect the fact that all ages and both sexes had been called to the special holy convocation for repentance (cf. Joel 2:16). Now all of them would receive the Spirit!

It is surely true that in context this refers to the covenant people, but in the NT (Peter's use of this text in Acts 2) the covenant people is widened to include all people (cf. Rom. 2:28-29; 9:6; Gal. 3:7-9,29; 6:16; 1 Pet. 3:6; Rev. 5:9-10; 7:9; 14:6).

The mutuality of Gen. 1:26-27 is restored. All flesh comes to YHWH (cf. Isa. 66:23)! This has always been the goal!! This is demonstrated by prophecy through dreams and visions (2:28-29).

Special Topic: Women in the Bible

2:30-32 This is apocalyptic language (see D. Brent Sandy and Ronald L. Giese, Jr., Cracking Old Testament Codes, pp. 177-196) attempting to describe God breaking into history either for judgment or blessing!

Special Topic: Apocalyptic Literature

2:31 "will be turned" This VERB (BDB 245, KB 253, Niphal IMPERFECT) is often used of

YHWH overturning the wicked
YHWH transforming nature
mountains, cf. Job 9:5
floods, cf. Job 12:15; Ps. 66:6
natural cycles of light and dark, cf. Joel 2:31; Amos 5:10
YHWH turning festival into mourning, cf. Amos 8:10
YHWH turning mourning into dancing, Ps. 30:11
YHWH turning mourning into joy, cf. Jer. 31:13
YHWH changing the wicked, cf. Zeph. 3:9

"comes"
This (BDB 97, KB 112, Qal INFINITIVE CONSTRUCT) is used several times to denote the "coming" of the day of the Lord, especially in the post-exilic prophets (cf. Zech. 14:1; Mal. 4:5; and also Isa. 13:9). YHWH is coming to be with His people. For some that will mean judgment and for some restoration.

The goal has always been God with His people (i.e., Emmanuel). The purpose of creation was an intimate personal relationship between the Creator and His special creation (cf. Gen. 1:26-27). The fellowship of Eden (Genesis 1-2) will be restored (Revelation 21-22). Everything from Genesis 3 through Revelation 20 is God cleaning up the mess of human rebellion.

F. F. Bruce, Questions and Answers, p. 75, makes a good point about this apocalyptic language having been partially fulfilled in the supernatural darkness that accompanied Jesus' death in Jerusalem. Peter's hearers on Pentecost would have recognized

the OT apocalyptic imagery
the recent literal fulfillment
Special Topic: YHWH's Eternal Redemptive Plan

2:32 "whoever calls on the name of the Lord"

In an OT setting this denotes an act of personal, public, covenantal affirmation (i.e., Gen. 4:26; 12:8; Ps. 116:4). It was a liturgical way of asserting one's trust in the covenant God of Israel and His word, promises, and warnings. See Special Topic: Call On His Name.

This phrase is used several times in the NT:

Peter's sermon on the day of Pentecost, Acts 2:14-21; 37-30
Peter's message to Cornelius, Acts 10:45
Paul's emphasis in Rom. 10:13
If this new day of salvation, this new age of the Spirit, this Messianic period, has begun, why is there still sin and suffering?

To answer this question, see the Special Topic: This Age and the Age to Come and also Gordon Fee and Doug Stuart's How To Read The Bible For All Its Worth, pp. 145-148.
Utley.

As always-context and the paradoxical statements like "Whomsoever" usually with a Subjunctive Clause.
Johann.

 

[Johan]

But that was all contingent upon what was said earlier in verses 1-5. That entire passage deals with repentance and forgiveness. Forgiveness is always dependent upon repentance. That is followed up in verses 11-20 which deals with the CHOICE of life or death. Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live,

The recurrent theme of "choose/choice" is running from the OT into the New Covenant-so I am in agreement with you here.
Johann.

 

[JIM]

The goal has always been God with His people (i.e., Emmanuel). The purpose of creation was an intimate personal relationship between the Creator and His special creation (cf. Gen. 1:26-27). The fellowship of Eden (Genesis 1-2) will be restored (Revelation 21-22). Everything from Genesis 3 through Revelation 20 is God cleaning up the mess of human rebellion.

I believe that to be true. But if that is to be accomplished through the realm of TULIP, it actually makes creation a totally unnecessary act; an act which will necessarily send most of human creation to Hell. God could have selected His "elect", as characterized by the Calvinist/Reformed Soteriology, without the creation and without imputing the rebellion of the one man upon that special creation and then sending of the vast numbers of the "unelect" to eternal condemnation.

 

[Johan]

I believe that to be true. But if that is to be accomplished through the realm of TULIP, it actually makes creation a totally unnecessary act; an act which will necessarily send most of human creation to Hell. God could have selected His "elect", as characterized by the Calvinist/Reformed Soteriology, without the creation and without imputing the rebellion of the one man upon that special creation and then sending of the vast numbers of the "unelect" to eternal condemnation.

Something I am struggling with myself @JIM-Although I admire the Reformers I have noticed you need to be careful in their Scripture selection and our Bible is written in a paradoxical time tension sense-what do they do with passages of choice, as you brought up, and to "whomsoever"

Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

καγω εαν υψωθω εκ της γης παντας ελκυσω προς εμαυτον

And if I receive the hagbah (lifting up) from ha'aretz, I will draw kol Bnei Adam to myself. [Isa 11:10]
"will draw all men to Me"
This may be an allusion to YHWH's covenant love for Israel in Jer. 31:3 which, of course, is the passage on "the new covenant" (cf. Jer. 31:31-34). God woos people by His love for and actions toward them. This same metaphorical use of this term is in John 6:44 and explained in John 6:65.

Here the "all" is the universal invitation and promise of redemption (cf. Gen. 3:15; 12:3; Exod. 19:5; Isa. 2:2-4; John 1:9,12,29; 3:16; 4:42; 10:16; 1 Timothy 2:4; 4:10; Titus 2:11; 2 Pet. 3:9; 1 John 2:2; 4:14)!

There is a significant variant in this phrase. The "all" can be MASCULINE, which would be translated "all men" and is found in the ancient Greek manuscripts P75 (VID), אi2, B, L, and W, while the NEUTER, which would be translated "all things," is found in P66 and א. If it is the NEUTER it would speak of the cosmic redemption of Christ similar to Col. 1:16-17, which would probably reflect the Gnostic heresy so evident in 1 John. The UBS4 gives the MASCULINE a "B" rating (almost certain).

And many more Scriptures-but this should suffice.
I have seen many scarred by religion brother and Modern day Calvinism is not the same as Classic Calvinism.

2Ti_2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

For some who don't have assurance-

ASSURANCE

A. Can Christians know they are saved (cf. 1 John 5:13)? 1 John has three tests or evidences.

1. Doctrinal (belief, 1 John 1:1,5,10; 2:18-25; 4:1-6,14-16; 5:11-12)

2. Lifestyle (obedience, 1 John 2:2-3; 2:3-6; 3:1-10; 5:18)

3. Social (love, 1 John 1:2-3; 2:7-11; 3:11-18; 4:7-12, 16-21)



B. Assurance has become a denominational issue

1. John Calvin based assurance on God's election. He said that we can never be certain in this life.

2. John Wesley based assurance on religious experience. He believed that we have the ability to live above known sin.

3. Roman Catholics and the Church of Christ base assurance on an authoritative Church. The group to which one belongs is the key to assurance.

4. Most evangelicals base assurance on the promises of the Bible, linked to the fruit of the Spirit (cf. Gal. 5:22-23) in the life of the believer (i.e., daily Christlikeness).



C. Believers' primary assurance is linked to the character of the Triune God

1. God the Father's love

a. John 3:16; 10:28-29

b. Romans 8:31-39

c. Ephesians 2:5,8-9

d. Philippians 1:6

e. 1 Peter 1:3-5

f. 1 John 4:7-21

2. God the Son's actions

a. death on our behalf

1) Acts 2:23

2) Romans 5:6-11

3) 2 Corinthians 5:21

4) 1 John 2:2; 4:9-10

b. high priestly prayer (John 17:12)

c. continuing intercession

1) Romans 8:34

2) Hebrews 7:25

3) 1 John 2:1

3. God the Spirit's ministry

a. calling (John 6:44,65)

b. sealing

1) 2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5

2) Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:3

c. assuring

1) Romans 8:16-17

2) 1 John 5:7-13



D. But humans must respond to God's covenant offer (both initially and continually)

1. believers must turn from sin (repentance) and to God through Jesus (faith)

a. Mark 1:15

b. Acts 3:16,19; 20:21

2. believers must receive God's offer in Christ (see Special Topic: What Does It Mean to "receive," "believe," "confess/profess," "call upon"?)

a. John 1:12; 3:16

b. Romans 5:1 (and by analogy 10:9-13)

c. Ephesians 2:5,8-9

3. believers must continue in the faith (see Special Topic: Perseverance)

a. Mark 13:13

b. 1 Corinthians 15:2

c. Galatians 6:9

d. Hebrews 3:14

e. 2 Peter 1:10

f. Jude 20-21

g. Revelation 2:2-3,7,10,17,19,25-26; 3:5,10,11,21



E. Assurance is difficult because

1. often believers seek certain experiences not promised in the Bible

2. often believers do not fully understand the gospel

3. often believers continue to willfully sin (cf. 1 Cor. 3:10-15; 9:27; 1 Tim. 1:19-20; 2 Tim. 4:10; 2 Pet. 1:8-11)

4. certain personality types (i.e., perfectionists) can never accept God's unconditional acceptance and love

5. in the Bible there are examples of false professions (cf. Matt. 13:3-23; 7:21-23; Mark 4:14-20; 2 Pet. 2:19-20; 1 John 2:18-19, see Special Topic: Apostasy)

Shalom
Johann.

 

[brightfame52]

I believe that to be true. But if that is to be accomplished through the realm of TULIP, it actually makes creation a totally unnecessary act; an act which will necessarily send most of human creation to Hell. God could have selected His "elect", as characterized by the Calvinist/Reformed Soteriology, without the creation and without imputing the rebellion of the one man upon that special creation and then sending of the vast numbers of the "unelect" to eternal condemnation.

Sounds like you wiser than God

 

[JIM]

Sounds like you wiser than God

Sounds like you haven't a clue about the meaning of what I said there.

 

[brightfame52]

Sounds like you haven't a clue about the meaning of what I said there.

You think you wiser than God ?

 

[brightfame52]

God is Faithful to the called ones !


Referencing back to the Faithfulness of God in 1 Cor 1:9 in calling some into Faith and Fellowship of the The Lord Jesus Christ, also this Faithfulness of God sanctifies the called wholly to present us blameless at the coming of the Lord.

1 Thess 5:23-24


23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

24Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Notice, Paul prays to the God of Peace for this blessing, the God of Peace is used in Heb 13:20

20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

And the blessing He beseeches God for, is that all those called may be preserved blameless until the coming of our Lord. This should be a great blessing for the saints who remain until the coming of the Lord as in 1 Thess 4:15

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

They have a promise that the God of Peace will preserve them blameless, their outward and inner man.

So in essence, 1 Cor 1:8-9

8Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

and 1 Thess 5:23-24

23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

24Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

These affirm the very same Truth, which entirely is depended upon the Faithfulness of God, and nothing else.

 

[JIM]

You think you wiser than God ?

I didn't say that I am wiser than God. I don't think I am wiser than God. I think you don't understand what I said. It has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone being wiser than God. It does have to do with what I think is a really poor interpretation of God;s word.

 

[Mr GLee]

No, the specific word "remnant" is applied in scripture only to the first-century Jews. A "remnant" is a small fraction taken out of the whole, meaning that only a small fraction of those in Christ's earthly ministry became believers in Him. "He came unto His own, and His own received Him not", John 1:11 tells us. Comparatively speaking, it was only a tiny minority of Jews in Christ's earthly ministry (a "remnant") who believed He was their prophesied Messiah.

This tiny "remnant" of Israel who believed in Christ as their prophesied Messiah during His earthly ministry (as Isaiah foretold) is not descriptive of ALL of recorded humanity in total. You have yet to address why Revelation 7:9 calls that a "great multitude which no man could number" standing in resurrected glory before the throne of God. This is NOT a "remnant" presented there, who came out of every tongue, kindred, people, and all nations.

The word remnant is in regard to all the nations of the world the non resistible call "let there be and it was so". The remnant of Israel is the same bride Christian that the father renamed her in Acts just as promised in isaiah 62

Not all Christians that say they are. . are . not all Israel is born again Israel

God is not served by the dying hmads of mankind he moves men according to His good will and purpose.

 

[brightfame52]

I didn't say that I am wiser than God. I don't think I am wiser than God. I think you don't understand what I said. It has nothing whatsoever to do with anyone being wiser than God. It does have to do with what I think is a really poor interpretation of God;s word.

You think you are, speaking negative about His Ways on How He saves His People.

 

[JIM]

You think you are, speaking negative about His Ways on How He saves His People.

No I am not. In fact I think it is your views that are negative in presenting God as one who for no reason, other that His own pleasure, has created a world in which billions of pre-selected human beings will be subjected to eternal condemnation. All the glib talk about the glory He shows in saving a pre-selected few I consider to be more than ludicrous. The Reformed all stand around patting each other on the back about how they are among the "elect", while all those other poor slobs don't even have the ability to be concerned about it.

If that isn't a perfect example of the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector (Luke 18:9-14), I don't know what is. You can decide for yourself who I put in the place of the Pharisee.

 

[Arial]

No I am not. In fact I think it is your views that are negative in presenting God as one who for no reason, other that His own pleasure, has created a world in which billions of pre-selected human beings will be subjected to eternal condemnation. All the glib talk about the glory He shows in saving a pre-selected few I consider to be more than ludicrous. The Reformed all stand around patting each other on the back about how they are among the "elect", while all those other poor slobs don't even have the ability to be concerned about it.

If that isn't a perfect example of the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector (Luke 18:9-14), I don't know what is. You can decide for yourself who I put in the place of the Pharisee.

God is in the position of doing what pleases Him. We are not in the position of telling Him what should please Him or what would or wouldn't please Him. How carelessly and without fear, we trespass into the mind of the Almighty! God always has a perfect purpose for doing what He does, whether it is to our likeing or not. He doesn't check in with us or run His plans by us for approval.

And then to describe His creation as creation of billions of preselected human beings subject to eternal condemnation if it is any other than the way you want it to be, is an indication of no fear of God of either type. It is as though humans bear no responsibility for their own demise.

And then it is topped off with unfounded judgment of and accusation of all His children who do not believe as you do, by declaring that they go around patting each other on the back about being the elect, and who look down their noses at all other believers---as if those who believe in election and predestination as presented in scripture and their understanding of it, think they are the only ones saved. In fact, though there are probably exceptions, for the most part they believe the same thing you do in that respect. All who believe are saved, irregardless of how the person views the process. And if those who believe in election have a correct understanding of the doctrine, they are humbled beyond what is probably possible if one believes it was not God who chose them, but they who chose God.

So who is looking down their nose at who? Who is maybe casting a stone at another because that is the way they would feel and how they would look at it if they believed God chose them?

 

[JIM]

. It is as though humans bear no responsibility for their own demise.

Ariel, it is the TULIP of Calvinism that says unelected humans bear no responsibility for their own demise. TULIP says they come into the world eternally condemned with no recourse whatsoever. All of their sins changes nothing. They can do nothing about any of it.

 

[brightfame52]

No I am not. In fact I think it is your views that are negative in presenting God as one who for no reason, other that His own pleasure, has created a world in which billions of pre-selected human beings will be subjected to eternal condemnation. All the glib talk about the glory He shows in saving a pre-selected few I consider to be more than ludicrous. The Reformed all stand around patting each other on the back about how they are among the "elect", while all those other poor slobs don't even have the ability to be concerned about it.

If that isn't a perfect example of the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector (Luke 18:9-14), I don't know what is. You can decide for yourself who I put in the place of the Pharisee.

You still speaking against God

 

[brightfame52]

Ariel, it is the TULIP of Calvinism that says unelected humans bear no responsibility for their own demise. TULIP says they come into the world eternally condemned with no recourse whatsoever. All of their sins changes nothing. They can do nothing about any of it.

In case you dont know, the Truths TULIP set forth are the Gospel of Gods Grace, so keep that in mind

 

[Arial]

Ariel, it is the TULIP of Calvinism that says unelected humans bear no responsibility for their own demise. TULIP says they come into the world eternally condemned with no recourse whatsoever. All of their sins changes nothing. They can do nothing about any of it.

Show me where TULIP says that.

Also the acronym TULIP is neither an accurate expression of the actual doctrines in it, at least not in modern language usages, nor does it give the doctrine. What you surmise it is saying and what you then declare it to say is nothing more than your surmising and your declarations. You should actually listen to those who are Reformed/Calvinist when they tell you what is in the doctrines and take it to heart, instead of simply repeating your own view as though that were the reality.

This is all that TULIP says:
T-Total Depravity
U-Unconditional Election
L-Limited Atonement
I-Irresistible grace
P-Preservation of the saints.

Then people come up with their own idea of what those things mean, or simply go by what they have heard those against it say it means. Nine time out of ten they are wrong.

No where in any Calvinist doctrine does it say that humans bear no responsibility for their own demise. It says the opposite. They are entirely responsible for their own demise.