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The Called !

grace2 said:
Another false witntessing. It is a sin to do that, friend.
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Do you know what a false witness is?

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

If any believer speaks of himself in seeking his own glory, that is a false witness.

A believer's commitment speaks of himself and it is to his own glory, not the Lord's, that he keeps it.... if he really keeps it. If not, then by that commitment is the knowledge of sin. Regardless, as in either way, it is a false witness.

A believer's faith in Jesus Christ for the help & as He is the power in us for following Him, speaks of Jesus Christ in seeking His glory; thus a true witness.

That is why you will not see Jesus asking His disciples to make a vow or a promise or a commitment to follow Him but to deny themselves as able to, pick up the cross daily in that it is not we who live but Christ lives in us, and to follow Him at His request is Him asking us to trust Him as our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him.

That is the only way we can live this reconciled relationship with God & that is through Jesus Christ.

That is why it is written that the just shall live by faith.
 
The above comment is poorly expressed.

I would like to change to "making a false accusation without proof."
 
The Special Call of His Own Sheep !

Jn 10:3-4

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

This Call is strictly for the Sheep of Christ,His Own Sheep, which He laid down His Life for Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

These His Own Sheep do Hear His Voice, because of Jn 18:37

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

They are of the Truth, which speaks of New Birth, they are born out the Word of God 1 Pet 1:23

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

If we are born out of the Truth, then and only then do we Hear the Truths Voice Jn 14:6

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Now this is a Call to His Sheep that are spiritually prepared to hear it, and His Own Sheep not only of the jews, but His Own Sheep out of the Gentiles as well, Jn 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

They shall hear His Voice just as it was stated of them in Jn 10:3-4

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

Many deceivers tell us that these other Sheep of Jn 10:16 is still speaking of jews, but thats a lie, its Gentiles. There is a Sheep call unto the Gentiles and they shall hear His Voice. Thats what Paul means here Acts 28:28
Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

And also here Rom 9:24

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

That word called kaleō is the same word John used here Jn 10:3

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

Again, A Special call to follow Jesus that is only for His Own Sheep, whether jew or Gentile 9
 
brightfame52 said:
@ChristB4us

Its fine for you to disagree.
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How do you defend this statement below scripturally? 2 Timothy 1:9 is not a clear case for your presentation since Who hath saved us is past tense just as called us with an holy calling is past tense. I can apply that easily as having called us with that holy calling for how we have been saved. Since the rest of the verse defers from us having done any good works as a saved believer but to His own purpose and grace.

The Call of the Gospel is not to lost souls, but to souls that have been saved, and because they have been saved or are being saved, that is why they are called 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Notice Paul wrote who Saved us, then and Called us with an Holy Calling ! The Gospel does not call lost and unholy sinners to Faith and fellowship in Christ !
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If we were already saved before the call of the gospel is given out, then why give out that call?

Cause and effect. Effect follows the cause.
 
A Call of God according to the Purpose of Election !

Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

Rom 9:7

Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Its a sure Call of the Seed ! Did you know that those who are God's Elect according to His Purpose of Election in Christ, that they receive a specfic and particular calling from God ?

Thats what Paul means by Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Its a Call according to God's Purpose [of Election] Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did
them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

The Call of the purpose of Election is also identified again in the context of Rom 9 here Rom 9:23-24

Even us, whom he hath called[of the vessels of Mercy], not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
 
ChristB4us said:
How do you defend this statement below scripturally? 2 Timothy 1:9 is not a clear case for your presentation since Who hath saved us is past tense just as called us with an holy calling is past tense. I can apply that easily as having called us with that holy calling for how we have been saved. Since the rest of the verse defers from us having done any good works as a saved believer but to His own purpose and grace.


If we were already saved before the call of the gospel is given out, then why give out that call?

Cause and effect. Effect follows the cause.
Click to expand...
The call to the saved is in order to convert them to Faith in Christ, the belief of the Truth.
 
brightfame52 said:
The call to the saved is in order to convert them to Faith in Christ, the belief of the Truth.
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I guess I am trying to understand why you seem to be putting the cart before the horse in regards to His ministry when they were not saved yet till they heard the gospel and then faith came when the Holy Spirit came since faith is a fruit of the Spirit for how we believe in Jesus Christ.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Those who do not believe on the onset were not saved but if they should believe later on down the road, then they are saved.

1 Timothy 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. 16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

And so Paul acknowledges that he was not saved before believing in Him but was as a sinner as well in need of Jesus as His Saviour.
 
A Call of God according to the Purpose of Election ! 2


The Call of the Election as God's Purpose is taught in the scripture, for one here Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Yet this something Jesus taught earlier in His Ministry regarding His Sheep and their Call by Him, for Christ's Sheep and God's Elect are the very same people.

Now the Sheep of Christ are called by Him in the Purpose of Election Jn 10:3-4

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

This call of His own Sheep results in their hearing His Voice and their following Him. Its also called " the putting them forth "

Thats what the Effectual Call does, it puts the Sheep forth ! The words put forth are the greek ekballō and means:

I.to cast out, drive out, to send out
A.
with notion of violence
i.
to drive out (cast out)

ii.
to cast out
a.
of the world, i.e. be deprived of the power and influence he exercises in the world

b.
a thing: excrement from the belly into the sink


iii.
to expel a person from a society: to banish from a family

iv.
to compel one to depart; to bid one depart, in stern though not violent language

v.
so employed that the rapid motion of the one going is transferred to the one sending forth
a.
to command or cause one to depart in haste


vi.
to draw out with force, tear out

vii.
with implication of force overcoming opposite force
a.
to cause a thing to move straight on its intended goal


viii.
to reject with contempt, to cast off or away


B.
without the notion of violence
i.
to draw out, extract, one thing inserted in another

ii.
to bring out of, to draw or bring forth

iii.
to except, to leave out, i.e. not receive

iv.
to lead one forth or away somewhere with a force which he cannot resist
Click to expand...

Again this is a Effectual and Irresistible Call to follow Christ issued out to His Own Sheep, the Elect of God. This is also being Illustrated what today men call Irresistible Grace of the hated TULIP Doctrines of Grace !
 
brightfame52 said:
A Call of God according to the Purpose of Election ! 2


The Call of the Election as God's Purpose is taught in the scripture, for one here Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

Yet this something Jesus taught earlier in His Ministry regarding His Sheep and their Call by Him, for Christ's Sheep and God's Elect are the very same people.

Now the Sheep of Christ are called by Him in the Purpose of Election Jn 10:3-4

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

This call of His own Sheep results in their hearing His Voice and their following Him. Its also called " the putting them forth "

Thats what the Effectual Call does, it puts the Sheep forth ! The words put forth are the greek ekballō and means:



Again this is a Effectual and Irresistible Call to follow Christ issued out to His Own Sheep, the Elect of God. This is also being Illustrated what today men call Irresistible Grace of the hated TULIP Doctrines of Grace !
Click to expand...
Different ways to look at Irresistible.

I would ask. Was it Irresistible to the son of man, Jesus?

Who had the power to draw the son of man, Jesus?

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
 
A Call of God according to the Purpose of Election ! 3

The Call of Christ's Sheep, wherein He calls them by name, having written their names in His Lambs Book of Life, His Call makes them follow Him, and again this Call is specifically for His Own Sheep, or God's Elect, for they're the same. Now by this Call they are given ears to Hear His Voice Jn 10:3

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. Cp with Jn 18:37

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Again this is a Call to His Own Sheep, which is not limited to only some of the jews, but it calls by name His Own Sheep of the Gentiles Jn 10:16

16 And other [of the Gentile Nations] sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice [when He calls them by name]; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

This is exactly the same as when Paul writes of them which are Vessels of Mercy, not only of the jews but also of the Gentiles Rom 9:23-24

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

And again this Call is that of God's Purpose of Election Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth) 9
 
Mr GLee said:
Different ways to look at Irresistible.

I would ask. Was it Irresistible to the son of man, Jesus?

Who had the power to draw the son of man, Jesus?

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
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I see no correlation. Im speaking about an effectual call given by God
 
brightfame52 said:
I see no correlation. Im speaking about an effectual call given by God
Click to expand...
Explain effectual call? Is it the work of Christs faith as a labor of His working in us?
 
The called are the Justified !

Rom 8:30

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

All who are the Called are the Justified. In our text above, those whom God has called He justified, and its not even up for debate, hence if they have been called according to God's Purpose Rom 8:28

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Now these are Justified, yes even before they believe, for they had to be called before they could believe, that is called by the Gospel 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9

Also Sanctification of the Spirit preceded the Call of the Gospel and the Belief of the Truth !

Those who are Called by the Gospel have been already Justified, made Righteous by the Obedience of Christ, meaning His Death Rom 5:19 !
 
Mr GLee said:
(Irresistible Grace of the hated TULIP Doctrines of Grace !)

I have read it does not answer my question Do you bless or hate it by denying it.?
Click to expand...
If it doesnt answer your question, I have nothing else for you.
 
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