THE BIBLICAL DEFINITION OF LOVE

[civic]

So you agree with the poster that water baptism is an altar-call?

Nope I was addressing specifically your view on the topic of the alter showing how it contradicts Romans 12:1

 

[jeremiah1five]

Nope I was addressing specifically your view on the topic of the altar showing how it contradicts Romans 12:1

I didn't say that.
You popped in and made your comment that on the reply-thread with the poster baptism is an altar call/sacrifice.
It's not.

 

[jeremiah1five]

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jn 3:16.

"loved" Greek Word: ἀγαπάω
Transliteration: agapaō
Part of Speech: verb

English Words used in KJV:
love 135
beloved 7
[Total Count: 142]

perhaps from agan (much) [or compare <H5689> (`agab)]; to love (in a social or moral sense).
[from James Strong].

So, Godly love which is Holy love is a verb, a word that describes "action."

This love has NOTHING to do with emotions, especially human emotions.

God's Love for His people called out of the world (John 17:6) is a Holy love. And as Christians we are commanded to not give that which is holy to dogs (unsaved, non-Covenant people.)
God's love given is to those He saves, and we are commanded to give this holy love to fellow believers in Covenant with God for the believer's edification.
There is no edification at all when holy love is given to reprobates who do not know Christ and are "none of His" (Rom. 8:9.)

Sadly, there are Christians that disobey God's command and waste Godly love when they give it to an ungodly people. This in effect is to support their ungodly living and by loving God's enemies is treason to the King of kings.
I KNOW what I as a Christian I 'got coming to me' from fellow believers and when Christians give holy love God commanded be given to brethren this is a betrayal to the fellowship of believers. It is spiritual adultery. It is spiritual fornication. And it is offensive.

 

[EarlyActs]

Messiah was Promised to Israel, not Gentiles.
Gentiles were brought in later.
There was no Promise or Covenant made to Gentiles.
It was the Abrahamic Covenant.
Is it 'overemphasizing this truth' when Gentile Christendom has forgotten this truth and act and speak as thought Jesus Christ belongs to ONLY them?
Gentiles are grafted in.
But they think they're the root.

Most of these lines are completely false. The NT refers often to 'in the Seed all the nations will be blessed.' And Christ was a 'covenant for the nations.' (Isaiah).

I was reading Acts recently and noticed something that even defies the 'vision of the animals in a sheet' as a marker to go to the Gentiles. Much of chapter 8 is outreach outside of Israel! Peter and John sent to Samaria, Philip to Gaza but to meet an African...

 

[EarlyActs]

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jn 3:16.

"loved" Greek Word: ἀγαπάω
Transliteration: agapaō
Part of Speech: verb

English Words used in KJV:
love 135
beloved 7
[Total Count: 142]

perhaps from agan (much) [or compare <H5689> (`agab)]; to love (in a social or moral sense).
[from James Strong].

So, Godly love which is Holy love is a verb, a word that describes "action."

This love has NOTHING to do with emotions, especially human emotions.

God's Love for His people called out of the world (John 17:6) is a Holy love. And as Christians we are commanded to not give that which is holy to dogs (unsaved, non-Covenant people.)
God's love given is to those He saves, and we are commanded to give this holy love to fellow believers in Covenant with God for the believer's edification.
There is no edification at all when holy love is given to reprobates who do not know Christ and are "none of His" (Rom. 8:9.)

Sadly, there are Christians that disobey God's command and waste Godly love when they give it to an ungodly people. This in effect is to support their ungodly living and by loving God's enemies is treason to the King of kings.
I KNOW what I as a Christian I 'got coming to me' from fellow believers and when Christians give holy love God commanded be given to brethren this is a betrayal to the fellowship of believers. It is spiritual adultery. It is spiritual fornication. And it is offensive.

It's is nothing but bizarre that the dogs example is used when that person was healed for her faith. Your literalism is very crass, unacceptable. Jesus does humor, hyperbole, exageration, prodding, etc, to get things done.

 

[EarlyActs]

Most of these lines are completely false. The NT refers often to 'in the Seed all the nations will be blessed.' And Christ was a 'covenant for the nations.' (Isaiah).

I was reading Acts recently and noticed something that even defies the 'vision of the animals in a sheet' as a marker to go to the Gentiles. Much of chapter 8 is outreach outside of Israel! Peter and John sent to Samaria, Philip to Gaza but to meet an African...

This is mentioned because Biblical theology does not 'bounce' back and forth neatly between Israel and the nations. In the generation following Christ, the people were told to be missionaries to the end of the earth and if they did not, they would face a horrid judgement. They did! So those narrative sections in the gospels that have that 'Israel only' sound are inside the preparation to hit this goal. He did want their help especially (for the same reasons mentioned in Rom 9-11--the advantage of knowledge, familiarity). But it was to get the mission launched. It was not a restoration of Israel's kingdom.

Completely treated in my THE COVENANT REVOLT, at Amazon.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Most of these lines are completely false. The NT refers often to 'in the Seed all the nations will be blessed.' And Christ was a 'covenant for the nations.' (Isaiah).

I was reading Acts recently and noticed something that even defies the 'vision of the animals in a sheet' as a marker to go to the Gentiles. Much of chapter 8 is outreach outside of Israel! Peter and John sent to Samaria, Philip to Gaza but to meet an African...

You're mistaken if you're going to put Gentiles on par with God's Chosen people and apple of His eye Israel.
The nations (Goyim) are blessed because of Abraham. But God has no Covenant with Gentiles per se. The blessings go through Abraham and Gentiles (wild olive branch) are grafted in with the true Olive branch which is Israel.
Salvation is of the "Jews," if you will know the Scripture in John 4.

Peter and John may have been sent to Samaria, but they were sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel just as they were sent out by Jesus before His ascension and that was to herald to the twelve tribes scattered that Messiah had come and God has kept His promise to Israel.

 

[jeremiah1five]

It's is nothing but bizarre that the dogs example is used when that person was healed for her faith. Your literalism is very crass, unacceptable. Jesus does humor, hyperbole, exageration, prodding, etc, to get things done.

The dog knew her place. Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel not the lost dogs of the house of Fido.

 

[jeremiah1five]

This is mentioned because Biblical theology does not 'bounce' back and forth neatly between Israel and the nations. In the generation following Christ, the people were told to be missionaries to the end of the earth and if they did not, they would face a horrid judgement. They did! So those narrative sections in the gospels that have that 'Israel only' sound are inside the preparation to hit this goal. He did want their help especially (for the same reasons mentioned in Rom 9-11--the advantage of knowledge, familiarity). But it was to get the mission launched. It was not a restoration of Israel's kingdom.

Completely treated in my THE COVENANT REVOLT, at Amazon.

There will come a time when the Times of the Gentiles will end, and God turns His full attention back to Israel His Bride.
Paul understood this and commented it on it in Romans. Here's something to ponder:

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Rom. 11:18–21.

3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every [saved] man the measure of faith. Rom. 12:3.

 

[EarlyActs]

You're mistaken if you're going to put Gentiles on par with God's Chosen people and apple of His eye Israel.
The nations (Goyim) are blessed because of Abraham. But God has no Covenant with Gentiles per se. The blessings go through Abraham and Gentiles (wild olive branch) are grafted in with the true Olive branch which is Israel.
Salvation is of the "Jews," if you will know the Scripture in John 4.

Peter and John may have been sent to Samaria, but they were sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel just as they were sent out by Jesus before His ascension and that was to herald to the twelve tribes scattered that Messiah had come and God has kept His promise to Israel.

The covenant God has with the nations is Christ. "I will make (my Servant) a covenant for the nations."--Isaiah.

The olive tree (not branch) of Rom 11 is all those who have faith, see "us" in 9:22 etc.

Yes, salvation (comes) from them; Christ was born in that country. We are talking about where it goes, where it was always meant to go. To the nations.

The Israel of the OT, we are told many times by the NT, was always just those who had faith, the remnant, not the entire community. That's how the race-nation confusion of 1st cent. Judaism and Nicodemus etc. got started.

The promise kept to the true Israel was the Spirit (Gal 3); the restoration visions of the OT always have the following in one event: the outpouring, the restoration, and the outreach to the nations. For ex., the Amos 9 quote in Acts 15. This is why Peter urged his people to respond in Acts 3 to actually be a part of the refreshing times that had been promised.

All the best,

 

[jeremiah1five]

The covenant God has with the nations is Christ. "I will make (my Servant) a covenant for the nations."--Isaiah.

Where is this "covenant Christ made with the nations?" Can you post the Scripture so I can be on the same page?

The olive tree (not branch) of Rom 11 is all those who have faith, see "us" in 9:22 etc.

Paul makes distinction between branch and olive tree (which is the national symbol of Israel) and the wild olive tree which Paul describes as representing the Gentiles.

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Rom. 11:18–21.

Yes, salvation (comes) from them; Christ was born in that country. We are talking about where it goes, where it was always meant to go. To the nations.

Christ wasn't just born in that country (Israel), Jesus Christ is a "Jew" from the tribe of Judah. He is a child of Jacob. And the Times of the Gentiles is a period of time in which Gentiles will be brought into the Great Congregation, which is Israel, but when that program is over God turns His attention back to His Chosen people Israel. Then the end will come.

The Israel of the OT, we are told many times by the NT, was always just those who had faith, the remnant, not the entire community. That's how the race-nation confusion of 1st cent. Judaism and Nicodemus etc. got started.

Not sure I follow you on the last sentence.

The promise kept to the true Israel was the Spirit (Gal 3); the restoration visions of the OT always have the following in one event: the outpouring, the restoration, and the outreach to the nations. For ex., the Amos 9 quote in Acts 15. This is why Peter urged his people to respond in Acts 3 to actually be a part of the refreshing times that had been promised.
All the best,

There were more than one Promise God gave to Israel that were fulfilled on Pentecost and many more yet to be fulfilled after the Times of the Gentiles.

 

[EarlyActs]

Where is this "covenant Christ made with the nations?" Can you post the Scripture so I can be on the same page?

Paul makes distinction between branch and olive tree (which is the national symbol of Israel) and the wild olive tree which Paul describes as representing the Gentiles.

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Rom. 11:18–21.

Christ wasn't just born in that country (Israel), Jesus Christ is a "Jew" from the tribe of Judah. He is a child of Jacob. And the Times of the Gentiles is a period of time in which Gentiles will be brought into the Great Congregation, which is Israel, but when that program is over God turns His attention back to His Chosen people Israel. Then the end will come.

Not sure I follow you on the last sentence.

There were more than one Promise God gave to Israel that were fulfilled on Pentecost and many more yet to be fulfilled after the Times of the Gentiles.

Several points here are incorrect. The NT is essentially the correction from thinking there are 2 programs/peoples and is the presentation of one.

In the analogy, the olive tree is all believers, if you go back and read ch 9 clearly about the other Israel and "us" (proven by 4 OT quotes). A person 'stands' by faith.

There are no NT passages with a clear Judaic phase to them for the future. I Cor 15, Rom 8, 2 Peter 3, Heb 9, even Rom 11 is not essentially about the future as though something major were missing from the present. The conclusive 'God has bound all over to sin, to have mercy on them all' is the one program. Always has been.

Is 42:6. The term used identifies the two; he is also its mediator.

The Jewishness of Jesus is not in doubt; that's what he meant in Jn 4, himself. He did not mean the race. There is nothing in the NT that has attention "back" to the race-nation after the age of the Gentiles. If you are familiar with Enoch's 10 weeks, it is not there either.

Dispensationalism sounds simple but its 2 program/2 peoples is the most destructive thing out there, when trying to know the NT.

 

[EarlyActs]

Is 42 is quoted in Acts 26 and Luke 2

 

[jeremiah1five]

Several points here are incorrect. The NT is essentially the correction from thinking there are 2 programs/peoples and is the presentation of one.

There have always been two groups of people in the world since the Garden:
The seed of the woman (believers) and the seed of the serpent (unbelievers.)
The Covenant of Abraham and those outside the Covenant of Abraham.
"THEM" (in John 17) and the world (from whom "THEM" are taken out of.)

In the analogy, the olive tree is all believers, if you go back and read ch 9 clearly about the other Israel and "us" (proven by 4 OT quotes). A person 'stands' by faith.

There are two races involved. The "Jewish" race which begun with Abraham (using "Jew" which comes from Judah still future to describe Covenant), and Gentiles.
The Olive tree is Israel. The wild olive tree are Gentiles who are saved.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off (Israel), and thou, being a wild olive tree (Gentile), wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Rom. 11:17.

Through Abraham all families will be blessed but don't forget from whom and through whom the blessings derive - Abraham, and don't forget that the wild olive tree is grafted into the Olive tree and partakes of the blessings of the Olive tree. So, we come back in circle to Abraham and Israel.

There are no NT passages with a clear Judaic phase to them for the future. I Cor 15, Rom 8, 2 Peter 3, Heb 9, even Rom 11 is not essentially about the future as though something major were missing from the present. The conclusive 'God has bound all over to sin, to have mercy on them all' is the one program. Always has been.

Israel was not "bound over to sin" when they had the yearly Atonement and the Laws of God.
The Gentiles were the ones bound over in sin for they were outside the Covenant of God for thousands of years. Even now.

Is 42:6. The term used identifies the two; he is also its mediator.

6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness,
And will hold thine hand, and will keep thee,
And give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Is 42:6.

The Covenant is with Israel. THEY are a light of the Gentiles (to see.)

The Jewishness of Jesus is not in doubt; that's what he meant in Jn 4, himself. He did not mean the race. There is nothing in the NT that has attention "back" to the race-nation after the age of the Gentiles. If you are familiar with Enoch's 10 weeks, it is not there either.

When the Times of the Gentiles is complete God will turn His attention BACK to Israel to complete His Promises, He made to them. The Times of the Gentiles are only an off-ramp. The highway is Israel, and God will soon take an on-ramp back to His people.

Dispensationalism sounds simple but its 2 program/2 peoples is the most destructive thing out there, when trying to know the NT.

There are two peoples. Believing "Jews" and Gentiles (in which right now the "Jews" are a minority), and the "Jews" and Gentiles that are unbelieving.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Is 42 is quoted in Acts 26 and Luke 2

6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness,
And will hold thine hand, and will keep thee,
And give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Is 42:6.

I see no Isaiah 42:6 in Acts 26.

32 A light to lighten the Gentiles...
Lk 2:32a.

 

[EarlyActs]

In the Acts 26 usage (v16+) it is the same kind of use to refer to Christians (Paul) doing what the Servant was to do. This is also in Acts 13:47, where "Israel" becomes a light to the nations by being in the Servant Messiah (and not when not in!)

 

[EarlyActs]

There have always been two groups of people in the world since the Garden:
The seed of the woman (believers) and the seed of the serpent (unbelievers.)
The Covenant of Abraham and those outside the Covenant of Abraham.
"THEM" (in John 17) and the world (from whom "THEM" are taken out of.)

There are two races involved. The "Jewish" race which begun with Abraham (using "Jew" which comes from Judah still future to describe Covenant), and Gentiles.
The Olive tree is Israel. The wild olive tree are Gentiles who are saved.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off (Israel), and thou, being a wild olive tree (Gentile), wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Rom. 11:17.

Through Abraham all families will be blessed but don't forget from whom and through whom the blessings derive - Abraham, and don't forget that the wild olive tree is grafted into the Olive tree and partakes of the blessings of the Olive tree. So, we come back in circle to Abraham and Israel.

Israel was not "bound over to sin" when they had the yearly Atonement and the Laws of God.
The Gentiles were the ones bound over in sin for they were outside the Covenant of God for thousands of years. Even now.

6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness,
And will hold thine hand, and will keep thee,
And give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Is 42:6.

The Covenant is with Israel. THEY are a light of the Gentiles (to see.)

When the Times of the Gentiles is complete God will turn His attention BACK to Israel to complete His Promises, He made to them. The Times of the Gentiles are only an off-ramp. The highway is Israel, and God will soon take an on-ramp back to His people.

There are two peoples. Believing "Jews" and Gentiles (in which right now the "Jews" are a minority), and the "Jews" and Gentiles that are unbelieving.

Sorry but your categories are mostly confused. There is nothing in common with a Garden of Eden reference and Rom 11.

The Covenant was not with Israel. To do that is to read Is 40-66 as though it was about the race-nation. It is not. In fact, to do so is prob what the veil is in 2 Cor 4. Instead, it is Christ. That's why I just gave the two examples of people 'in Christ' doing what the Servant would, but with a strong emphasis on it being the message of the Servant.

That's why the Lk 2 usage is used first and unmistakable. It would be confusing to refer to believers in Christ doing his enlightening work before He was out and about, a completed historic thing.

I do not know of anything God will be doing with the race-nation in the future NT letters etc.

 

[EarlyActs]

A person might be born Jewish, but Rom 11 is about people who have faith as being the olive tree. Mt 21's parable makes the same new use of the old: a new ethne has been made to tend the vineyard.

 

[EarlyActs]

6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness,
And will hold thine hand, and will keep thee,
And give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
Is 42:6.

I see no Isaiah 42:6 in Acts 26.

32 A light to lighten the Gentiles...
Lk 2:32a.

The UBS Greek text editor lists Is 42:6 as the allusion for the Acts 26 passage (and for Luke 2). It is built in to how Paul is describing himself. The important thing is that Christ is already the covenant mediator (acting as one) before Paul is at work for Christ; he is what the 'plural' sense (one example) of the Isaiah lines meant. Eventually all Christians are who are helping God's mission to the nations are doing the same. But Christ had to do it first as the historic reality.

The redemptive verbs of v7 are used too. Open eyes, release, give light.

An allusion is slightly different from a quote; it is a place where the word choice is obviously influenced by the OT passage. It can't be just a coincidence that a high percent of the OT words are used.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Sorry but your categories are mostly confused. There is nothing in common with a Garden of Eden reference and Rom 11.

The Covenant was not with Israel. To do that is to read Is 40-66 as though it was about the race-nation. It is not. In fact, to do so is prob what the veil is in 2 Cor 4. Instead, it is Christ. That's why I just gave the two examples of people 'in Christ' doing what the Servant would, but with a strong emphasis on it being the message of the Servant.

That's why the Lk 2 usage is used first and unmistakable. It would be confusing to refer to believers in Christ doing his enlightening work before He was out and about, a completed historic thing.

I do not know of anything God will be doing with the race-nation in the future NT letters etc.

By the time of Isaiah's prophecy Israel was already in the Abrahamic Covenant.
They were the light to lighten the Gentiles.
There is NO COVENANT God has made with Gentiles. They are only the beneficiaries of the Abrahamic Covenant, but it is still a "Jewish" Covenant.
And the Abrahamic Covenant is a family Covenant as it went from Abraham to Isaac (son) and then to Jacob (grandson) and then to his twelve children (tribes - great-grandson) and on down through their descendants. It is a Covenant still in force today which is why "Jews" are being saved and born again. But the day will come when the Times of the Gentiles will complete and God will turn His attention back to Israel, all will be forgiven, and Israel will be a continuation of the OT Church (Great Congregation) and will take the lead in evangelizing the world of "Jewry" scattered around the world just as was begun in Acts 1:8.
It started with Abraham and will finish with Abraham's descendants. The two witnesses of Revelation will be of "Jewish" descent and in their prophesying will show through the Old Testament prophecies that this Jesus was their long-awaited Messiah and King. There will be (or should not be) new Scripture written. The Book of the Covenant is closed.