THE ACTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

[jeremiah1five]

No 12 is 12, not 13,14,15,20,50 100 etc........

There are 12 Apostles- foundation stones.

next............

Understood. There are only 12 apostles of the Lamb.
Just as there were/are twelve tribes.
Then another, and then there were children and offshoots but still under the Abrahamic Covenant.

But since then God has added to the twelve. Only the 12 apostles of the Lamb will be named on the foundation of the wall of the New Jerusalem. ALL TWELVE including Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed his Lord.

And what were YOU before your salvation? Have you ever betrayed the Lord? Even now have you ever disobeyed the Lord?
We are all sinners in the same fashion as Adam and Eve.
But some want to deny the Presence of Christ in His people and in this they deny the very Life of Christ in His Church by denying His Minstry as Apostle and Prophet, a Presence that is very needed in His Body of believers.

 

[EarlyActs]

Understood. There are only 12 apostles of the Lamb.
Just as there were/are twelve tribes.
Then another, and then there were children and offshoots but still under the Abrahamic Covenant.

But since then God has added to the twelve. Only the 12 apostles of the Lamb will be named on the foundation of the wall of the New Jerusalem. ALL TWELVE including Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed his Lord.

And what were YOU before your salvation? Have you ever betrayed the Lord? Even now have you ever disobeyed the Lord?
We are all sinners in the same fashion as Adam and Eve.
But some want to deny the Presence of Christ in His people and in this they deny the very Life of Christ in His Church by denying His Minstry as Apostle and Prophet, a Presence that is very needed in His Body of believers.

Best to let God decide about Judas.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Best to let God decide about Judas.

He did.
It's Scripture.

29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. Dt 29:29.

Praise God for His unspeakable gift!

 

[EarlyActs]

He did.
It's Scripture.

29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. Dt 29:29.

Praise God for His unspeakable gift!

No, you have. You are deciding that there was repentance. The guy knew all along that Jesus had taught the mission to the nations was coming, and turned against it. Anyone in Israel was 'utterly cut off' for doing so, Acts 3.

 

[jeremiah1five]

No, you have. You are deciding that there was repentance. The guy knew all along that Jesus had taught the mission to the nations was coming, and turned against it. Anyone in Israel was 'utterly cut off' for doing so, Acts 3.

Do you know what repentance is?

It's a changing of one's mind. That's what the word means and what Judas did.
And being under the Law.

3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. Mt 27:3–5.

At Passover Jesus declares He gave His body and blood for YOU (all twelve).

Salvation is of the LORD. Jonah 2:9.

 

[EarlyActs]

Do you know what repentance is?

It's a changing of one's mind. That's what the word means and what Judas did.
And being under the Law.

3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that. 5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. Mt 27:3–5.

At Passover Jesus declares He gave His body and blood for YOU (all twelve).

Salvation is of the LORD. Jonah 2:9.

It is not clear that Judas stayed.

It is clear that he should have actually repented by being ready to work in the mission of Christ; anyone who rejected that in Israel was 'utterly disinherited', Acts 3:22.

 

[jeremiah1five]

It is not clear that Judas stayed.

It is clear that he should have actually repented by being ready to work in the mission of Christ; anyone who rejected that in Israel was 'utterly disinherited', Acts 3:22.

Do you not understand Matthew 27:3-5?

There’s no ambiguity.

Judas repented.

 

[EarlyActs]

Do you not understand Matthew 27:3-5?

There’s no ambiguity.

Judas repented.

There are several steps. He fled and betrayed; he was not honored for that, and will not be. That is Satan possessing him. After doing so he killed himself, but true repentance would have him help the apostles in the mission; he chose an easy escape. He cannot be honored for making that choice because of Acts 3:22.

You are trying so hard to honor the dishonorable, and it is really pathetic.

 

[jeremiah1five]

There are several steps. He fled and betrayed; he was not honored for that, and will not be. That is Satan possessing him. After doing so he killed himself, but true repentance would have him help the apostles in the mission; he chose an easy escape. He cannot be honored for making that choice because of Acts 3:22.

You are trying so hard to honor the dishonorable, and it is really pathetic.

Why do you add to the Bible leaning on your own understanding in the vanity of your mind to dictate how repentance should be expressed?
Take Scripture as written.
Let the Word tell YOU what to believe rather than YOU telling the Word what to say.

 

[civic]

There are several steps. He fled and betrayed; he was not honored for that, and will not be. That is Satan possessing him. After doing so he killed himself, but true repentance would have him help the apostles in the mission; he chose an easy escape. He cannot be honored for making that choice because of Acts 3:22.

You are trying so hard to honor the dishonorable, and it is really pathetic.

Yes just like the pigs who committed suicide over the cliff.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Yes just like the pigs who committed suicide over the cliff.

Ever walk into a room of people and sense a heaviness or oppression?
Attitudes.
In the world you had them. It shows on the countenance.

 

[civic]

Ever walk into a room of people and sense a heaviness or oppression?
Attitudes.
In the world you had them. It shows on the countenance.

In fact yes I have a few times and even in a church.

 

[jeremiah1five]

There are several steps. He fled and betrayed; he was not honored for that, and will not be. That is Satan possessing him. After doing so he killed himself, but true repentance would have him help the apostles in the mission; he chose an easy escape. He cannot be honored for making that choice because of Acts 3:22.

You are trying so hard to honor the dishonorable, and it is really pathetic.

Judas was under the Law.
He repented. Confessed his sin, rejected the money, and in obedience to the Law where it says life for life he obeyed the command of God.
What should have been done was the religious leaders taking him outside the city and stone him for being complicit in the condemnation and death of an innocent man.
Take a read:

3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Judas SAW (perceived, understood) that Jesus was condemned and he understood what that meant for him being under the Law:

23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. Ex 21:23–25.

Scripture continues:

4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood.

Judas confesses his sin being under the Law.

Scripture continues:

And they said, "What is that to us? see thou to that."

To use the vernacular they effectively said, "What does that have to do with us? Handle it [yourself.]"

Under the Law Judas was complicit in the condemnation and death of an innocent man [Jesus.]
The Law calls for the stoning death of Judas. But the religious leaders told Judas to "Handle it yourself."
So, he did handle it himself as commanded under the Law. Judas obeyed the Law and in obeying the Law he obeyed God:

5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Mt 27:3–5.

Judas rejected the money and knew he must die and in obedience to the Law of God he went and killed himself. Life for life.

Jesus said:

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. Jn 14:15.

Judas realized his mistake.
Judas repented.
He went back to return the money.
He confessed his sin.
Then he rejected the money outright.
He knew under the Law he had to die. So did the chief priest and his buddies but they didn't care. They had their man. They had Jesus.
He killed himself.
In obeying the Law and command of God Judas showed finally his love for Christ/Messiah and for God.

Now, anyone think my understanding is NOT in line with what Scripture records happen with Judas when he went back to the chief priest and his lackeys?
Stay with Matthew 27:3-5 please.

 

[jeremiah1five]

These are all spiritual gifts for a spiritual people of God.

Christ was Apostle:
Hebrews 3:1 (KJV)
1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ was Prophet:
John 4:19 (KJV)
19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

Christ was Evangelist:
Matthew 4:17 (KJV)
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Christ was Pastor:
John 10:11 (KJV)
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Christ was Teacher:
John 3:2 (KJV)
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Let's face it. This is the Life of Jesus to His people.
HE IS Apostle.
HE IS Prophet.
HE IS Evangelist.
HE IS Pastor/Shepherd.
HE IS Teacher.

Jesus said:

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John. 14:16–17.

So, when a person becomes a Christian and is baptized by the Holy Spirit of God into the Body of Christ, the Life of Christ dwells with the believer and [shall] be in him/her.
The Life of Christ is in the Body of Christ. The Life of Christ is total, and Christ manifests this Life in His people.
Therefore, the manifestation of the Life of Christ is expressed in the presence of Himself as Apostle in His Church/Body.
He is manifested His Presence also as Prophet [evangelist, pastor, and teacher.]
There is NO Scripture that says this Life of Christ in His people as apostle and Prophet has ended. It only exists in the minds of the ignorant, the disobedient, the arrogant, and the haters.
By the way, the apostle John says that to deny [the Life of] Christ in His people are antichrist.
And spirit of antichrist, to deny the Father and the Son.

Thus, the Life of Christ as Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, and Teacher are expressed and manifested in His people today we call the Church and Body of Christ.
What God continued on the Day of Pentecost He continues today.

34 My covenant will I not break, Nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Ps 89:34.

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: It shall not return unto me void, But it shall accomplish that which I please, And it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Is 55:11.

What was it that He sent? He sent a Promise:

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Acts 2:38–39.

And such Promise in all its glory is STILL with us and in us today.
This is the Life of Christ in His people.

The Promise of Emmanuel. God with us.
And in us.

 

[jeremiah1five]

ibid.

 

[EarlyActs]

He did.
It's Scripture.

29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law. Dt 29:29.

Praise God for His unspeakable gift!

Ridiculous. This is not specifically about Judas, about whom many specific things are said. It is not even about the topic. It is nonsense.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Ridiculous. This is not specifically about Judas, about whom many specific things are said. It is not even about the topic. It is nonsense.

I'm saying there is enough about Judas to evidence he is saved and with the Lord.

 

[TB2]

I'm saying there is enough about Judas to evidence he is saved and with the Lord.

Unclear

John 17.12

While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Unclear

John 17.12

While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

"Lost" is defined by Strong as:
"apollymi" which means: [#622] from <#575> (apo) and the base of <G3639> (olethros); to destroy fully (reflexive to perish, or lose), literal or figurative.

The word "perdition" means "ruin" and it has three senses in which it is used: "physical "ruin," spiritual "ruin," and eternal "ruin."
It cannot apply as spiritual "ruin" for the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived. It cannot mean eternal "ruin" for Judas was at the Passover meal and Jesus said His body and blood are given "for you" (the twelve.)
The only application that makes sense is physical "ruin" given that Judas committed suicide in obedience to the Law of Moses of life for life.

3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Mt 27:3–5.

As you can see the moment Judas understood he was complicit in the condemnation and eventual death of an innocent man (Jesus) he repented (had a changed mind about his actions for you will see in a moment he gave fruits worthy of repentance by trying to give back the money he received to assist in the apprehension of his Master.)
Secondly, he brought back the 30 pieces of silver in hopes of undoing his deed.
Thirdly, he confessed his sin ("I have betrayed innocent blood")
The religious leader(s) told him, "What is that to us. See thou to that."
Under normal conditions the religious leaders and the people should have taken Judas outside the city and all stone him as prescribe in the Law of Moses. Instead, they told him to "handle it yourself."
The only thing left to him was self-destruction and it took the form of a suicide (hanging.)
He followed the religious leaders suggestion and in obedience to the Law of Moses of life for life he went out after casting down the 30 pieces of silver in the Temple and hung himself by the neck and died. It is presumed the branch he attached the rope to broke and he fell 'headlong to the bottom and his bowels ripped out.'
This description in Scripture is very clear. Judas may have been a thief but the realization that Jesus was going to die brought great grief to him and he had enough courage in his grief to go out and do as the religious leaders told him and what the Law of Moses prescribed, and he hung himself. It would have been better if he had not been born.
That's how I see it and it is reasonable.

 

[TB2]

"Lost" is defined by Strong as:
"apollymi" which means: [#622] from <#575> (apo) and the base of <G3639> (olethros); to destroy fully (reflexive to perish, or lose), literal or figurative.

The word "perdition" means "ruin" and it has three senses in which it is used: "physical "ruin," spiritual "ruin," and eternal "ruin."
It cannot apply as spiritual "ruin" for the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived. It cannot mean eternal "ruin" for Judas was at the Passover meal and Jesus said His body and blood are given "for you" (the twelve.)
The only application that makes sense is physical "ruin" given that Judas committed suicide in obedience to the Law of Moses of life for life.

3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Mt 27:3–5.

As you can see the moment Judas understood he was complicit in the condemnation and eventual death of an innocent man (Jesus) he repented (had a changed mind about his actions for you will see in a moment he gave fruits worthy of repentance by trying to give back the money he received to assist in the apprehension of his Master.)
Secondly, he brought back the 30 pieces of silver in hopes of undoing his deed.
Thirdly, he confessed his sin ("I have betrayed innocent blood")
The religious leader(s) told him, "What is that to us. See thou to that."
Under normal conditions the religious leaders and the people should have taken Judas outside the city and all stone him as prescribe in the Law of Moses. Instead, they told him to "handle it yourself."
The only thing left to him was self-destruction and it took the form of a suicide (hanging.)
He followed the religious leaders suggestion and in obedience to the Law of Moses of life for life he went out after casting down the 30 pieces of silver in the Temple and hung himself by the neck and died. It is presumed the branch he attached the rope to broke and he fell 'headlong to the bottom and his bowels ripped out.'
This description in Scripture is very clear. Judas may have been a thief but the realization that Jesus was going to die brought great grief to him and he had enough courage in his grief to go out and do as the religious leaders told him and what the Law of Moses prescribed, and he hung himself. It would have been better if he had not been born.
That's how I see it and it is reasonable.

The KJV "repented" is misleading

3 When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. 4 “I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”

And it's certainly not a "repentance" of faith, because Judas didn't know about the resurrection; so it wasn't repentance and faith in Jesus as the risen Lord

Whether Judas was 'saved' or not is unclear at best.

But his committing suicide while out of guilt certainly wasn't some spiritualized fulfillment of the Torah's lex talionis "eye for an eye" principle.

But to me, the more salient question is not whether or not Judas was saved, but why you feel so strongly on the issue. On genuinely curious why this is such an important issue to you.