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THE ACTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

TB2 said:
The KJV "repented" is misleading

3 When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. 4 “I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”

And it's certainly not a "repentance" of faith, because Judas didn't know about the resurrection; so it wasn't repentance and faith in Jesus as the risen Lord

Whether Judas was 'saved' or not is unclear at best.

But his committing suicide while out of guilt certainly wasn't some spiritualized fulfillment of the Torah's lex talionis "eye for an eye" principle.

But to me, the more salient question is not whether or not Judas was saved, but why you feel so strongly on the issue. On genuinely curious why this is such an important issue to you.
Click to expand...
I had remorse for my sins when I was born again.
You know, you describe the actions of repentance and confession for sin but you don't really believe in these salvation acts.
The issue of Judas is important because his life touches several foundational doctrines of Scripture and this so-great salvation.
I find it incredible people especially Christians will condemn a true apostle of the Lamb to hell and turn around and pray God saves their mother or little daughter. Such hypocrisy and lying and dishonesty. It disgusts me.
If you want to know more of my understanding on Judas search "ON THE QUESTION OF JUDAS ISCARIOT" I posted.
 
jeremiah1five said:
I find it incredible people especially Christians will condemn a true apostle of the Lamb to hell and turn around and pray God saves their mother or little daughter. Such hypocrisy and lying and dishonesty. It disgusts me.
Click to expand...
I still don't understand why you are so emotionally invested in this. But regardless, I'm not condemning Judas, I just don't see a clear answer to the question from Scripture. It's unclear. Scripture doesn't expressly say. Nor do I think other believers are "condemning" Judas, but merely saying what they perceive Scripture to indicate on the matter; just as you have expressed your view. I don't see a clear answer to this, but I support your right to disagree with me, but I also support the right of other Christians to disagree with your disagreement. But surely accusing Christians of "hypocrisy and lying and dishonesty" for thinking Judas was an unrepentant 'bad guy' is taking it way too far.
 
jeremiah1five said:
You know, you describe the actions of repentance and confession for sin but you don't really believe in these salvation acts.
Click to expand...
You also go too far by telling me "you don't really believe," when you are not in a position to make such statements.

(It always baffles me when people try to tell other people what they 'really' believe or don't believe, as if they think they can see into someone else's heart and mind)
 
TB2 said:
I still don't understand why you are so emotionally invested in this. But regardless, I'm not condemning Judas, I just don't see a clear answer to the question from Scripture. It's unclear. Scripture doesn't expressly say. Nor do I think other believers are "condemning" Judas, but merely saying what they perceive Scripture to indicate on the matter; just as you have expressed your view. I don't see a clear answer to this, but I support your right to disagree with me, but I also support the right of other Christians to disagree with your disagreement. But surely accusing Christians of "hypocrisy and lying and dishonesty" for thinking Judas was an unrepentant 'bad guy' is taking it way too far.
Click to expand...
One is either biblical or they lean on their own understanding in the vanity of their mind.
I prefer to rightly divide the Word of Truth allow it to inform my beliefs. There's enough on Judas to show he's saved and in God's Presence.
What would you say if I said to you a [certain] family member of yours is in hell?
Especially if I don't know the person, right? And I was to say it all the time their name comes up in conversation right in front of you. Would you like it?
Now you understand?
Well, I know what Scripture says with regard to Judas and I'm convinced he's saved.
 
TB2 said:
You also go too far by telling me "you don't really believe," when you are not in a position to make such statements.

(It always baffles me when people try to tell other people what they 'really' believe or don't believe, as if they think they can see into someone else's heart and mind)
Click to expand...
I can understand your mind by what comes out your mouth, or in this case, your keyboard.
Jesus taught it.
And it takes a lot of trial and error to do it correctly.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Heb 5:14.

Take note: good and evil.

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1 Jn 4:1.

Take note: true and false.

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. Heb 4:12–13.

Take note: thoughts and intents.

34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. Mt 12:34–35.

Take note: good and evil.

And anything contrary to what God has said (in Scripture) is evil. It is not, "that's just your opinion," for if we only have opinion then the Church possesses no truth, and we are all damned.
But the Church possess truth and some of us see the same Jesus and say the same thing as God. To do otherwise is to oppose Him. And having a wrong idea about the One True God is evil for it opposes the God of Truth.
 
jeremiah1five said:
What would you say if I said to you a [certain] family member of yours is in hell?
Especially if I don't know the person, right? And I was to say it all the time their name comes up in conversation right in front of you. Would you like it?
Now you understand?
Well, I know what Scripture says with regard to Judas and I'm convinced he's saved.
Click to expand...
Again, I think it's unclear. But in the end it's not a matter of salvation one's belief about Judas. Nor do I need to worry about it because I trust God is a fair and just Judge.
 
TB2 said:
Not really. I haven't said enough to go on. All I've said is it's unclear.
Click to expand...
Yes, really. If you said the word "No" I'd understand it.
But it takes the Word of God and practice.
 
jeremiah1five said:
I had remorse for my sins when I was born again.
You know, you describe the actions of repentance and confession for sin but you don't really believe in these salvation acts.
The issue of Judas is important because his life touches several foundational doctrines of Scripture and this so-great salvation.
I find it incredible people especially Christians will condemn a true apostle of the Lamb to hell and turn around and pray God saves their mother or little daughter. Such hypocrisy and lying and dishonesty. It disgusts me.
If you want to know more of my understanding on Judas search "ON THE QUESTION OF JUDAS ISCARIOT" I posted.
Click to expand...

To broaden this inquiry a bit, what do you think of his 'marxism'?
 
jeremiah1five said:
I had remorse for my sins when I was born again.
You know, you describe the actions of repentance and confession for sin but you don't really believe in these salvation acts.
The issue of Judas is important because his life touches several foundational doctrines of Scripture and this so-great salvation.
I find it incredible people especially Christians will condemn a true apostle of the Lamb to hell and turn around and pray God saves their mother or little daughter. Such hypocrisy and lying and dishonesty. It disgusts me.
If you want to know more of my understanding on Judas search "ON THE QUESTION OF JUDAS ISCARIOT" I posted.
Click to expand...

Among the hermenuetical principles of the Reformation is:

interpret incidental references by major doctrinal sections.

What I mean is that you are constructing a lot about 'salvation acts' from one peculiar incident. If you were to go to Romans 3-5 and find a coherent treatment of the same through ch 10 ('whoever calls upon...'), you might come out differently. Justification is not an 'experience' nor dependent on a 'formula' of acts (or, if it is, there are about 10!). It is a knowledge about what took place in the historic Christ event, in terms of God's justice/judgement, Rom 3:21+.
 
EarlyActs said:
Among the hermenuetical principles of the Reformation is:

interpret incidental references by major doctrinal sections.

What I mean is that you are constructing a lot about 'salvation acts' from one peculiar incident. If you were to go to Romans 3-5 and find a coherent treatment of the same through ch 10 ('whoever calls upon...'), you might come out differently. Justification is not an 'experience' nor dependent on a 'formula' of acts (or, if it is, there are about 10!). It is a knowledge about what took place in the historic Christ event, in terms of God's justice/judgement, Rom 3:21+.
Click to expand...
What it comes down to is a changed life from darkness to light.
Repentance is a changed mind. Conversion is an event. Confession is an act as is worship. Fear and peace are feelings one experiences. Relief is also experienced. These outcrop from salvation and there are more.
 
jeremiah1five said:
Explain.
Click to expand...


John 12:
(Now the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfumed oil.)[h] 4 But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (the one who was going to betray him)[i] said, 5 “Why wasn’t this oil sold for 300 silver coins[j] and the money[k] given to the poor?” 6 (Now Judas[l] said this not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief. As keeper of the money box,[m] he used to steal what was put into it.)[n] 7 So Jesus said, “Leave her alone. She has kept it for the day of my burial.[o] 8 For you will always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me!”
 
EarlyActs said:
John 12:
(Now the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfumed oil.)[h] 4 But Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples (the one who was going to betray him)[i] said, 5 “Why wasn’t this oil sold for 300 silver coins[j] and the money[k] given to the poor?” 6 (Now Judas[l] said this not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief. As keeper of the money box,[m] he used to steal what was put into it.)[n] 7 So Jesus said, “Leave her alone. She has kept it for the day of my burial.[o] 8 For you will always have the poor with you, but you will not always have me!”
Click to expand...
OK. What?
 
jeremiah1five said:
What it comes down to is a changed life from darkness to light.
Repentance is a changed mind. Conversion is an event. Confession is an act as is worship. Fear and peace are feelings one experiences. Relief is also experienced. These outcrop from salvation and there are more.
Click to expand...

I would say you don't really know what justification from sins is.

Given his theft 'to help the poor' (or to help the zealots?), seems there was no changed life either.
 
EarlyActs said:
I would say you don't really know what justification from sins is.

Given his theft 'to help the poor' (or to help the zealots?), seems there was no changed life either.
Click to expand...
There was no changed life because there was no deliverance from bondage for one, and no Holy Spirit for two.
Everyone was totally in the flesh and the flesh left to its own is corrupt. But now that there's a Holy Spirit, we are now more than conquerors.
 
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