Scripture is the only authority?

[Arial]

I have ask many times on here for a definition

You have been given a definition many times. The latest example post #58.

 

[donadams]

How can you successfully refute something you do not understand.?It makes everything you say on the subject of sola scriptura a straw man fallacy.

I understand the concept just not in light of scripture itself

 

[Arial]

I understand the concept just not in light of scripture itself

That makes no sense.

 

[donadams]

What is the correct one? What do you think it is? It matters not that there are many unless you give the many. Maybe somewhere in there we could find the correct one. However, this thread has given the true meaning over and over and over. I have seen no other but the correct one given, no many different ones. And still you and @donadams stand claiming confusion and arguing from your false definition. Why is that necessary? That is the question you should ask yourselves.

How can it be the ultimate authority or final authority if it is supposed to be the only authority?

What is it ultimate over or final against?

Tell us the true meaning that actually holds up against scripture itself.

 

[donadams]

No. That is incorrect. That is incorrect because it is incomplete.

If I pointed to the pickup truck in my driveway and said, "That's an automobile," but the truth is that chassis has no engine in it then I would be abusing the term "automobile" because that word means self-mobilizing. Sola Scriptura is a very specific doctrine that is fairly limited in definition and application. It does not mean scripture is the only authority. Nor does it mean scripture is the only authority for everything. Those are incorrect definitions. Furthermore, no Protestant believes scripture is the only authority and when asked to prove his claim to the contrary @donadams has been silent.

You should not be supporting him, except to provide an accurate definition.

No it is still an auto-mobile it just lacks an engine

But it’s designed purpose is to be and auto-mobile

Maybe it’s a poor example

 

[Arch Stanton]

What does sola scriptura mean that scripture is alone for? Sola scriptura is Latin for "by scripture alone."

Yes, I know... see above

It means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian.

and yet one's fallible interpretations get in the way -- hence, thousands of denominations

There you and @donadams have no more excuse for using straw man arguments.

We don't have a straw man argument.

The Catholic church claims that authority, and the authority of only itself as the interpreter of Scripture.

Straight from Christ to His Church.

 

[donadams]

What does sola scriptura mean that scripture is alone for? Sola scriptura is Latin for "by scripture alone."



“The whole counsel of God, concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man’s salvation, faith, and life, is either expressly set down in scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men.” —Westminster Confession of Faith

It means that Scripture alone is authoritative for the faith and practice of the Christian.

There you and @donadams have no more excuse for using straw man arguments.

The Catholic church claims that authority, and the authority of only itself as the interpreter of Scripture. It adds to, takes away, includes traditions of men, according to their own interpretations, that are blatantly, provably false, right and left. They declare themselves the one true church of Christ, deny the sufficiency of Christ, add their traditions as necessary for salvation, due to His insufficiency.

At least in your understanding!

Please explain these verses in light of your dogma of scripture alone?

Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
Matt 13:11
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 4:11
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:2
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
1 Jn 4:6
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture itself says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Christ commanded his church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

 

[donadams]

You have been given a definition many times. The latest example post #58.

But then What are we to do when scripture itself opposes scripture alone except refute the doctrine of “scripture alone” as false doctrine?

 

[donadams]

That makes no sense.

Scripture opposes the doctrine of “scripture alone”!

Matt 28:19 is enough to see that much less the laundry list of verses I already sent you

Thks

 

[Eleanor]

66 Protestant books?

Having read all the canonical books, I agree with the Protestant canon that the Apocrypha, except for Wisdom, lacks the majesty of style of the Protestant canonical books.

 

[Eleanor]

Where does scripture say so?

It says what the church of the apostles teaches! Acts 2:42

Matt 5:14 light (truth) of the world
1 Tim 3:15 Pillar of truth
Hear the church Matt 18:16

The church = assembly, ekklesia, of both OT (Ac 7:38) and NT (Eph 5:30-33) people of God.
One takes it to the whole assembly (ekklesia) when taking it to one or two brothers does not resolve the issue (Mt 18:16).

Men not scripture alone teach and administer salvation acts 8:30-38 acts 16:17

Baptism does not save. Only faith saves. And faith is from the Holy Spirit only (Eph 2:8-9).
Rather baptism is an outward sign of our death and burial into Christ's death (Ro 6:3), in order that,
just as Christ was raised from the dead, we too may live a new life (Ro 6:4).

Men do not administer salvation.
Only the Holy Spirit administers salvation, through the gift (Php 1:29, Ac 13:48, 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3) of faith alone (Eph 2:8-9).
Men only preach the gospel and baptize.
Men minister to those who have been saved, helping them grow in the sanctification of that salvation administered by the Holy Spirit alone.
Salvation is only by grace of the Holy Spirit through faith in the gospel which men preach (Eph 2:8-9).

 

[Arial]

Scripture opposes the doctrine of “scripture alone”!

Matt 28:19 is enough to see that much less the laundry list of verses I already sent you

In what universe does Matt 28:19 oppose the doctrine of scripture alone? You are still arguing a straw man.

What is it that "make disciples and baptizing and teaching" have to do with opposing scripture? What do you think they are teaching, and who are they baptizing into. It merely means to spread the gospel to all nations, not just Israel. And what does Jesus say before that? "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

Not the Catholic church. And nothing in your laundry list opposes scripture alone either. I gave you the definition of sola scriptura right out of the Westminster Confession. And you still base your beliefs and arguments on what it isn't.

 

[Eleanor]

There is a big difference between “he left his word” and “I am with you always even to the end of the world”! Matt 28:20

God's word written is from the Holy Spirit who is with us always to the end of the world, and is that "other Comforter" like Jesus himself (Jn 14:16-17, 25-26, 15:26, 16:7), who cares for us in the way that Jesus cared for his apostles, and abides with us forever (Jn 14:16).

 

[Josheb]

so you don't want to clear up any confusion... got it

Ad hominem noted. Double standards noted.

pa leeeezzzzze.... I have been on protestant boards for over 25 years

Non sequitur noted. Your presence is not in question. Your comprehension may be, because if you have been paying attention in Prot boards for 25 years then you should know the correct definition of Sola Scriptura (and you do not), and you should know straw men, shifting onuses, ad hominem, and double standards are worthless nonsense not worth the time and effort they take to post.

I have ask many times on here for a definition

Scripture yes
Scripture alone no

Sola scriptura what’s it mean?

I would hope it says what it means and means what it says!

Sola = alone nothing added
Scripture = well for our purposes the Protestant canon 66 books with missing chapters

Sacred scripture is the only source of truth and Christian faith

What’s your understanding?

I told you: this op is yours. It is not my op. They onus is on you to justify and then prove your claims. It's not up to me to provide alternatives for you in avoidance of you doing what you are supposed to do. I will provide the correct definition after 1) you have been given sufficient opportunity to do the right thing or 2) you've proven yourself incapable or unwilling to do so.

contradicted yourself operationally

Is it impossible to accept scripture and reject “scripture alone”?

Yes! Your failure to comprehend that is one of the problems to be solved.



Now.....

Will you provide the definition of sola scriptura, as you understand it, in your own words?


And....


Will you provide proof of some sola scripturist stating scripture is the only authority?

 

[Eleanor]

You mean you’re limited 66 p. Books?

The apostles are also God breathed! Jn 20:21-23

You do not seem to understand what you read.

So I will leave it to others to sort it out with you.

Bind and loose example:

They do not invent new doctrine
The Christian faith is “revealed” by Christ to his apostolic church before his ascension eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

(But they clarify an already revealed truth by decree binding the conscience of every Christian to believe)

Example:

Lk 1:43 mother of God

Apostolic Council Of Ephesus – 431 A.D. with authority from Christ to bind and loose the faith of all Christians. Matt 16:19 & 18:18

If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh) let him be anathema.

Thks

 

[Arial]

But then What are we to do when scripture itself opposes scripture alone except refute the doctrine of “scripture alone” as false doctrine?

It doesn't. You would have to prove that it does and the Catholic doctrines and interpretations that are outside of Scripture would have to be proven. Complete circle from many, many posts, and many,many posts ago------you have not proven that your premise that the Catholic church is the keeper of doctrine and tradition for Christ's church, is true. And you will never be able to because it isn't true. All you can do in your attempt to do so is use the interpretations of the Catholic dogma----much of which has been categorically proven annethema. That is nothing but self authorizing. No witness to the claim but itself. And sola scriptura sola fide, sola Gratia, solo Christo, Soli Deo gloria, witnesses against it.

 

[Arial]

At least in your understanding!

Please explain these verses in light of your dogma of scripture alone?

Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
Matt 13:11
Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
Lk 1:4
Lk 10:16
Jn 8:32
Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21
Acts 1:8
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:26
Acts 8:31
Acts 18:25
Rom 10:15
1 cor 4:11
1 cor 11:23
1 thes 2:23
2 thes 2:2
2 thes 2:15
Col 2:7
Eph 4:5
Heb 13:7
Heb 13:17
1 Tim 3:15
1 Jn 1:3-5
1 Jn 4:6
2 Jn 1:12
Jude 1:3

How can it be said scripture is “sole authority” or the only source of truth or the rule of faith when scripture itself says we must hear the church Matt 18:17 the apostles are the light of the world Matt 5:14 we must hold the doctrine of the apostles acts 2:42 the church is the pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Christ commanded his church to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

The Catholic church is not His church. It more closely resembles an anti-christ than His church, and until you can prove it is His church without using the RCC's self witness as the only witness, interpreting scriptures in any other way that the Catholic way, is moot. I am sure I have done so for you with most of them over the years anyway.

 

[donadams]

That makes no sense.

It does snce

That makes no sense.

Matt 5:14 are the apostles the light (truth) of the world or “scripture alone”?
Matt 6:33 must we seek the truth in the kingdom or “scripture alone”?
Matt 13:11 do the apostles know these or “scripture alone”?
Matt 18:17 must we hear the church or “scripture alone”?
Matt 28:19 do the apostles have the truth they are commanded to teach or “scripture alone”?
Lk 1:4 are we to be instructed or search and make our own doctrine according to “scripture alone”?
Lk 10:16 is the teaching of the apostles the teaching of Christ or “scripture alone”?
Jn 8:32 do the apostles know the truth or “scripture alone”?
Jn 16:13 apostles are lead into all truth or “scripture alone”?
Jn 20:21 do the apostles have the same authority as Christ or “scripture alone”?
Acts 1:8 are the apostles the witnesses of Christ or “scripture alone”?
Acts 2:42 believe the apostles doctrine or “scripture alone”?
Acts 8:26 did God send and apostle or “scripture alone”?
Acts 8:31 must a man teach or “scripture alone”?
Acts 18:25 was he instructed or just read “scripture alone”?
Rom 10:15 preaching of the apostles or “scripture alone”?
1 cor 11:23 handed down tradition or “scripture alone”?
2 thes 2:2 word, letter or “scripture alone”?
2 thes 2:15 tradition (oral and a scripture) or “scripture alone”?
*this one alone is enough to refute “sola scriptura “!
Col 2:7 taught or “scripture alone”?
Eph 4:5 the faith revealed by Christ or “scripture alone”?
Heb 13:7 spoken the word of God or “scripture alone”?
Heb 13:17 do they teach you the faith or “scripture alone”?
1 Tim 3:15 is the church the pillar of truth or “scripture alone”?
1 Jn 1:3-5 declared unto you or you read “scripture alone”?
1 Jn 4:6 hear the apostles or “scripture alone”?
2 Jn 1:12 face to face with apostle or “scripture alone”?
Jude 1:3 the faith revealed by tradition (handed) to the apostles or “scripture alone”?

There is no way to believe both sacred scripture and the doctrine of “scripture alone”!

Thanks

 

[Arial]

and yet one's fallible interpretations get in the way -- hence, thousands of denominations

Fallible interpretations and thousands of denominations is irrelevant. It neither proves or disproves one single thing. Why does the Catholic church consider their interpretations are the only ones that are infallible? What exactly do they base this on?

We don't have a straw man argument.

If someone says they are refuting something they don't understand, and another person agrees with the person, then of necessity only straw man arguments can be used. Think about it. Your other argument is just as bad. "Well, sola scriptura can't be true because there are fallible interpretations and thousands of denominations." And the one before that, "Well, there are many definitions of sola scriptura so it can't be true." (Both paraphrased.)

Straight from Christ to His Church.

To the church. Not the RCC. Christ's church is not an organization or corporation, or building. It has organizations within it. It is people, purchased by Christ through the sacrifice of His body and the shedding of His blood. And what it teaches, and what holds it together in unity, is contained authoritatively in the Bible, particularly the writings of the NT, and nowhere else.

 

[Arial]

How can it be the ultimate authority or final authority if it is supposed to be the only authority?

What kind of a question is that?

What is it ultimate over or final against?

Tell us the true meaning that actually holds up against scripture itself.

Ultimate: HIghest. None other than. Final. Ultimate truth. Final word on the matter.

The meaning is the one I gave you straight out of the WCF. It means what the reformers meant by it.