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Romans 4 vs James 2: Newborn babes vs converted Christians

The translation is bad, and intended to change the doctrine in context.

The Scripture is being without works, where no works are being done. The Scripture is never about being separated from the works we do.






Which is proven here in Romans 4: We are without works, because no works are being done by us.

Being apart from works is with works, not without works. It's the doctrinal hypocrisy and fiction of separating ourselves from our works. It rejects the true warning of Scripture, that God judges us all by our works, not apart from our works.
Apart from the letter of the law (death) comes the law of faith belief.

Emanuel working in us with us

The just letter (Death) and the justifier Christ the spirit of faith as it is written


Two laws needed to make one new perfect law

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
 
It does not depart,
It does depart from the gospel of Jesus Christ, if repentance is not necessary to recieve the righteous faith of Jesus Christ unto salvation.

I've already given the Scriptures preaching preaching to salvation.




and not be guilty mixing works with God's grace to sinners through the faith and obedience of Jesús Christ.
Repentance for conversion is not a work, but only ceasing of works.


Ghada, men must be born again first by the Spirit of God, before they can do works acceptable unto God
The gospel command to repent is to become born by His Spirit.



such as believing, repenting and being baptized in water.
There is no believing with God before repenting toward God.


The word "for" the remission of sins here is because of....!
A completely false translation, that is as bad as saying the Word was a god, rather than the Word was God.

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Rom 3:25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


Jesus Christ's blood was not shed, because our sins were already forgiven.




If a person could bring forth fruit worthy of repentance, then the gift to repent has already been granted with the power to do so!
Acts{11:18} When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

God's granted repentance is granted unto His life, faith, conversion, and salvation by Jesus Christ.




We do not teach, and certainly to not believe that a person who professes to have faith, will continue to live as they have always lived, there will be fruits of godly repentance seen clearly in their life,
Sons and saints of God do live in Christ Jesus, as never before in sin and trespass.

Living unlike before by sinning less than before, is not God's granted repentance from all past works, but is only man's own gradual repentance in their own good time and will.



if not, then their faith is worthless, no better than devils who at least trembled knowing of a future judgement coming for them.
Anyone doing unrighteousness, or not doing the good we know to do at the time, has not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ,.

Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

James{2:14} What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.






The salvation in these few scriptures is a practical salvation proving ourselves to be true children of God by our works!
Jesus Christ's practical salvation from sinning, is begun by practical repentance from sinful deeds for His sake.


Some of these godly acts/fruits may take time to perform as we grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ,
Whatever time sinners want to take to repent of their deeds, is time taken away from the Spirit and life of God, to continue doing their sinful deeds.


Without such godly fruits, we should have every reason to make of election and calling of God sure.
And with any ungodly fruit, we have no reason to believe our calling and election with God is sure.

2 Peter 1:6Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
He shows mercy to sinners and creates a new man within them so that they have the power to do things godly acts,
He shows mercy to sinners that repent for His sake. And freely creates us all new creatures of God, without past works of the devil.

1Jo 3:8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

2Co 5:17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,




You are having sinners doing works
The only works sinners do is works of their own lust.

Jas 1:14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

that even saints having trouble performing
Having trouble performing, is endurance to perform, not failure to perform.

Jas 1:2My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Mat 13:20
But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

All saints in Christ Jesus perform the same as He did in the flesh, enduring all temptations, trials, and tribulations of this life unto the end.

Psa 106:3Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

1 John{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.


to the degree you say sinners must do!

All sinners must do is repent from sins and traspasses for Jesus' sake.



That's false.
It's the gospel of Scriptures already given.


for to be accepted with God, one's life must be perfect without sin,
True. A repented born son and saint in Christ Jesus, is in whom there is no sin nor sinner.

Rom 11:27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Jhn 1:29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world

1Jo 3:5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.


The righteous Head Jesus Christ has no unrighteous member of His body. The only head of a body with sinful members and works, is another Christ, not Jesus Christ.


and Jesus Christ alone fulfilled that for us

No unrighteous person is made righteous by someone else doing righteousness. Even as no righteous person is made a sinner by someone else sinning.

1 John{3:7} Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous
, we have been accepted with God on the behalf of Jesus Christ,
The commandment to repent is to all men and women. The promise of mercy is to anyone that repents for Jesus' sake.

Mat 22:14For many are called, but few are chosen.






not based upon any work that we have done, or will do.
Being justified without works, is not being justified apart from our works.

No man becomes justified by God with works. No man is justified by God with evil works.
 
Ghada is faith a work?

Does God need faith in order to work out and it was good. ?

Same good power that works in sons of God.
 
In some circles it is phrased as spiritually dead. I personally do not like that phrase because I do not feel it has Biblical support. However, I do know what is meant by it when it is used and agree with it, and it is not that our spirit is dead. Even a novice Should recognize the difference between spirit and spiritual. So once again you misrepresent what it contained in the doctrine by imposing your definitions onto it. Do you understand what that last sentence means? If not, I will try again to explain it, though careful logical thinking should do the trick.
Yes I understand what that last sentence means. Calvinist doctrine on soteriology is filled with misrepresentations through imposing nonbiblical definitions. Words like foreknowledge, sovereign, election, regeneration, etc., and phrases like "in Adam", "born again", each element in TULIP, etc.
When spiritually dead is used it refers to, and in agreement with Scripture, that we cannot quicken ourselves to life in the Spirit. We cannot regenerate ourselves. Only God can do that. Until and unless he does this, we cannot understand the things of the Spirit because they are spiritually discerned.
And you have done a similar thing there about which you accuse me. I don't know anyone who claims that we can quicken ourselves to life in the Spirit.
You are operating from a false premise that Original Sin claims that a person's spirit comes from man. It never makes any such claim and you think it does because you are imposing your definitions and your emotions onto the doctrine.
Go here:


Read it, study it and then show me how I am operating from a false premise about Total Depravity.
 

Luke 3:3​

“And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;”'

The word "for" the remission of sins here is because of....!
Red, why do you insist on imposing a terribly false definition of the Greek word "eis"? There is no credible interpretation/interpreter of Greek that agrees with you. NONE. A couple have tried and get shot down by dozens more. Argue all you want about what you think such passages like Luke 3:3 mean, but please, please do not use such an obvious and blatant mistake to do so.

The English word "for" in Luke 3:3 is a perfectly good interpretation when it means, as Strong's shows:


G1519

εἰς

eis

ice

A primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time, or (figuratively) purpose (result, etc.); also in adverbial phrases.: - [abundant-] ly, against, among, as, at, [back-] ward, before, by, concerning, + continual, + far more exceeding, for [intent, purpose], fore, + forth, in (among, at unto, -so much that, -to), to the intent that, + of one mind, + never, of, (up-) on, + perish, + set at one again, (so) that, therefore (-unto), throughout, till, to (be, the end, -ward), (here-) until (-to), . . . ward, [where-] fore, with. Often used in composition with the same general import, but only with verbs (etc.) expressing motion (literallyor figuratively.
Total KJV occurrences: 1693


It never means "because of", NEVER.

Luk 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for [to, into, unto, for the intent, for the purpose] the remission of sins;
 
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A sinful nature is nothing more than the free will choose to obey or disobey.

So why did Adam sin if he didn't have a sinful nature?

The word of God has the power of life and death .

Just as many resist the spiritual words of life the same apply to death . Not partially dead. No faith or power dead.

The living word of God kills and breathes new life. The unseen work of the Holy Spirit pouring out His Spirit life on dying flesh. Called the newness of the unseen Spirt of Christ.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Dead in trespasses and sin no power to raise one self from the dead .Not a sinful nature rather than judgement "letter of the law" death

Adam was subject to the letter of the law (death) When he heeded the voice of the spirits of lies corruption began .The labor needed to eat and survive had increased . Death began its work .

Yoked with Christ like Abel the daily sufferings made lighter with a future hope beyond the grave (the temporal things seen )

Genesis 4:9-13 And the Lord said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.And Cain said unto the Lord, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

Yoked with Christ we can bear it daily .
 
Yes I understand what that last sentence means. Calvinist doctrine on soteriology is filled with misrepresentations through imposing nonbiblical definitions. Words like foreknowledge, sovereign, election, regeneration, etc., and phrases like "in Adam", "born again", each element in TULIP, etc.
That sentence that you say you understand says nothing about imposing nonbiblical definitions onto the Bible. So no, you did not understand it. It has nothing to do with Calvin or Calvinist or soteriology, or the words you list. It had to do with you and what you do. You have a belief about what something is teaching, in this case TD. And what you think it is teaching is not what is teaching. When you argue against it, you argue as though it still means what you say it means. No matter how many times you are told and shown, that it does not.
And you have done a similar thing there about which you accuse me. I don't know anyone who claims that we can quicken ourselves to life in the Spirit.
No I haven't. I have simply told you what is normally meant when someone uses the term spiritually dead. In response you simply threw in a red herring.
Read it, study it and then show me how I am operating from a false premise about Total Depravity.
I read most of it. But the question still remains. Do you really know what the author or those he quotes are saying? Or are you simply having an emotional reaction to it and telling them what they are saying?

Total Depravity is the condition of the total makeup of man being affected. And not according to you erroneous idea that confuses spirit with spiritual, or your definition of the spirit of man. That would include his nature which is the motivator of his choices (will). Adam did not come out of that garden exactly the same man he was when he was created and put in the Garden. And all his progeny after him are like what he became. It is true what was said in that article, that the biggest problem today and for a long time, and has invaded the church in many ways, including denouncing original sin and total depravity, is a failure to recognize just how bad sin is in the eyes of God. How great a treason that is. ANd that is because we do not know who God is.
 
The salvation in these few scriptures is a practical salvation proving ourselves to be true children of God by our works!
Then we have no disagreement. Sons of God are justified with faith by works.

The moment any works are equired to prove our salvation, or our faith as 'true' genuine' 'salvific', then we are justified by our faith with works.

Very few people preach a non-hypocritical OSAS, untainted by any works necessary to prove anything. They preach eternal salvation and justification by faith alone, with no condition on any works to 'prove' their faith nor salvation. In fact, a very few even preach that unconditional eternal security in Christ, even if they forsake the faith they once had. They say that if anyone ever believed in this life, then they are forever secured a part in the blessed resurrection of the sons of God.


Some of these godly acts/fruits may take time to perform as we grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ,
God gives no time nor justification for transgressions. His godly repentance is from all transgressions now today, not some some time later at our own convenience.

Act 24:25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.

2 Cor 6:2(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)... Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.


Unconditional total surrender of His enemies to His Son, is commanded to find mercy, forgiveness, and reconciliation with God by His Son.

Psa 110:1The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Jas 4:4Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Phl 3:17Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)


Those walking in His name, and yet transgessing His law with the world, are now His enemies naming His name.

If anyone naming Christ wants to take some time to repent of all disobedience as commanded, then that certainly is their right and choice as freewill creatures created in God's image. But as with all the world's enemies of God, it's only His longsuffereing mercy, that we don't die in our transgression unto everlasting shame.

Rom 2:3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

 
Paul wrote that to Christians, believers, not unbelievers. Don't you know that?
Of course. Even as with the son of God Adam was warned not to transgress and die to God.

The warning to all souls created by God, is that the wage of iniquity is separation from His Spirit of life. The promise in Christ Jesus is that no other creature can make us transgress and separate ourselves from Him.

Adam tried to blame Eve, and Eve tried to blame the devil, but nonetheless they died by their own transgression and were driven from the garden by their own unrepentance.

It says nothing can.
No quote from Scripture, not Scripture.

It does not add nothing but ourselves can separate us from his love.
Who can? No other creature can.

If anyone wants to believe that by their faith alone, their own soul shall not die by their own iniquit, then that have that right of freewill in this life.

With the grave we are judged by our works, not our own beliefs and doctrinal words.



"Even when we are unfaithful, he remains faithful."
Of course the Son remains faithful to the Father. He doesn't forsake the Father to walk with unfaithful children of disobedience.

2Ch 24:20And the Spirit of God came upon Zechariah the son of Jehoiada the priest, which stood above the people, and said unto them, Thus saith God, Why transgress ye the commandments of the LORD, that ye cannot prosper? because ye have forsaken the LORD, he hath also forsaken you.



James 1:13 does not say that our sin separates us from God.
No, James 1 doesn't. Spiritual death by transgression and separation from God is in other Scriptures, beginning in the garden.

James 2 says anyone transgressing the Lord has no faith in Him, but only in themselves. Such as believing they are not separated from God by their own iniquity, as others are.

Rom 2:3And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: For there is no respect of persons with God.


He is explaining how sin is birthed.
Correct. Man concieves lust in his own heart against God. And by lust man commits his own sin and dies to God.

Even as lust can only be in the heart of anyone that concieve it for ourselves, so death of the soul can only be by our own lust of heart.

No other creature can separate our souls from God, but only by our own lust alone. Some even try to blame God for their lust and sin, as though He makes us that way from the womb.

Jas 1:13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.



If we are disobedient and continue to be so without remorse or repentance, we will be disciplined and corrected by him---just as a father disciplines his children and corrects them, but does not stop loving them.
Children of disobedience are not chasticed as sons, but are reproved as all disobedient children of men to repent.

2Sa 7:14I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

God's love toward all men remains the same, even to them that forsake Him, but His longsuffering mercy for the disobedient to repent ends in the grave.



It would help if you knew that Jesus did not leave us as orphans
Jesus forsakes none of His faithful and obedient brethren and sons. No matter what temptations, tribulations, persecutions other creatures may bring against us. Sons that remain obedient unto the end inherit the promise of resurrection unto life

Heb{5:8} Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; {5:9} And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;




Instead of depending on yourself
Trusting in ourselves, is trusting in our faith alone to justify us with God, even while disobeying Him and crucifying His Son again to ourselves.


and telling everyone else they are damned if they don't also depend on themselves. Now, I know you have used those exact words, but that is what it amounts to.
Of course you mean not used those words. And, of course, your interpetation of my words is as bad as your intepretation of God's words.

Being separated from God is being at enmity with him because we are sinners.
Exactly.

We still have his image and likeness.
Not so. Sinners still have freewill to do good deeds are evil, as they desire at the time. But sinners by lust of heart have corrupted the pure spiritual image of God, that we are all created with.

Only by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, can any sinner now repent of deeds, and by the Spirit have the corruption of lust circumcised from the heart. That's when we become all new creatures of God, created again in His own good and pure image.

We simply don't do what we are supposed to do as that image bearer.
Sinners don't, and the spiritual image they bare is not of God nor Jesus Christ.


It does not say anyone in Christ will be taken out.
Scripture does, even as the Jews that forsook Him on a cross.

Rom 11:19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.


That would be Christ paying the high price for their forgiveness and then having it no longer do so.
Even if some repent not to be forgiven and washed clean with His blood, His death, burial, and resurrection are not in vain.

Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,

If we do evil against the Lord and crucify Him again to ourselves, His faith and salvation is made of none effect to us alone.



It says do not grieve the Holy Spirit and it also says they are sealed unto the day of redemption. So grieving him does not break the seal.
Psa 78:40 How oft did they provoke him in the wilderness, and grieve him in the desert! Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.

Grieving God is turning back from God, and tempting His righteous wrath.

Heb 3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

Only the hardened hearts that repent not, grieve God in His wrath, and He declares they shall not enter into His rest.

The same warning to God's people in the wilderness, remains the same after His death, burial, and resurrection. The manner of warning and law changes from old to new, but not the Lord's judgment against transgression and disobedience.

Heb 2:2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
 
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The contrast in the passage is between the effect of Adam's disobedience upon all mankind and the effect of Jesus' obedience upon all mankind.
The effect is that of example. Scripture states men become sinners dead to God by sinning.

Death to God has passed upon men, because all men have sinned.

Paul is not speaking there of the sins of man, but rather the condition of man's spirit when he enters the world.
God still creates all men in His image, spiritually pure. Jesus Christ the maker of all men has not changed His manner of creation, because man sinned.

Jesus Christ has never created any creature's spirit sinfulm whether angels, men, or natural beasts..

Jesus' obedience negated any effect that Adam's disobedience might have had.
Jesus' obedience is the true example to follow, and by His death, burial, resurrection His Spirit negates the death of sin, by taking away the sinning of them that repent.
 
Good. We are not born in Original Sin, rather, we are all born in Original Grace.
Original sin is lust of heart, and is committed for the first time by angels and men, when concieving lust in our own hearts.
 
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Total Depravity is the condition of the total makeup of man being affected. And not according to you erroneous idea that confuses spirit with spiritual, or your definition of the spirit of man. That would include his nature which is the motivator of his choices (will). Adam did not come out of that garden exactly the same man he was when he was created and put in the Garden.
And we are not the same person once we sin. Sin corrupts us. But it doesn't corrupt our offspring.
And all his progeny after him are like what he became.
If that is what you believe, then please tell me how that happens. Who has caused that to happen? Who or what has cause his progeny after him to become like him. Not his birth of the flesh. John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of flesh is not spirit. John 3:6 ...that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Given that statement by Jesus, then how does spirit of the son become born of the flesh of the parent?
 
The effect is that of example. Scripture states men become sinners dead to God by sinning.

Death to God has passed upon men, because all men have sinned.


God still creates all men in His image, spiritually pure. Jesus Christ the maker of all men has not changed His manner of creation, because man sinned.

Jesus Christ has never created any creature's spirit sinfulm whether angels, men, or natural beasts..
AMEN!!
Jesus' obedience is the true example to follow, and by His death, burial, resurrection His Spirit negates the death of sin, by taking away the sinning of them that repent.
But that is not the message of Romans 5:12-19. That message comes in Chapter 6 (it actually begins in 5:20). Verses 18 and 19 are telling us that Jesus' obedience in His death, burial, resurrection negates the effect that Adam's sin might have had on all men had Jesus not sacrificed Himself.
 
And we are not the same person once we sin. Sin corrupts us. But it doesn't corrupt our offspring.
And it is a guarantee that each person will sin, because it is in our nature to do so. We have a knowledge of what is evil in God's eyes and we are drawn to it. It is our nature to do so.
If that is what you believe, then please tell me how that happens. Who has caused that to happen? Who or what has cause his progeny after him to become like him.
I have told you before. Will you believe me this time? Will you even hear what I have to say or what the word of God says? God set Adam, the first man, as the head of all mankind. He is the original father of us all. As he is, so are we. Scripture tells us this when it says things like "as in (or through) one man all sinned". How can that be a true statement if what you say is true----everyone is born in the same conditions as Adam was created and then becomes a sinner only when he first sins. Which is very early when we see the first sin of a baby committed. They are born self centered and self absorbed, demanding, rebelling, caring about no one but their own needs. You don't think that violates the commands of God? Take the emotional reaction out of it and use reason and logic. Adam caused this to happen.
Not his birth of the flesh. John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of flesh is not spirit. John 3:6 ...that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Given that statement by Jesus, then how does spirit of the son become born of the flesh of the parent?
Human babies are born of the flesh. They aren't born of the Spirit. The spirit of a human is not separate from the flesh. It is a distinction.
 
Of course. Even as with the son of God Adam was warned not to transgress and die to God.

The warning to all souls created by God, is that the wage of iniquity is separation from His Spirit of life. The promise in Christ Jesus is that no other creature can make us transgress and separate ourselves from Him.

Adam tried to blame Eve, and Eve tried to blame the devil, but nonetheless they died by their own transgression and were driven from the garden by their own unrepentance.
Why post nothing but red herrings, deflections, and other things unrelated to what it is responding to?
 
Newborn babes are justified by faith without works. Converted Christians are justified with works.

The resolution of Romans 4 justification by faith without works, and James 2 justification by works with faith, is found by who is being spoken about and to: Newborn babes without works vs converted Christians with works.

Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

The context in Romans 4 is about being newborn babes in Christ: It is when the sinner is newly forgiven of all past works and forgotten by God, as though they were never done:

Rom 9:11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

2Co 5:17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,

Likewise, as newborn babes, the newly justified convert does not have any works to be judged by.

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

There is no law against any newborn babe, because there are no works to judge by law. The law is only made for works. Where no law is, there is no transgression, and where no works are, there is no law.

Jas 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons....But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

There is no law for newborn babes, where there are no works, but there is law for grown children doing works against the law.

Christians doing sinful works are judged by the law of Christ as transgressors of the world. Having been newborn babes does not justify any child of disobedience doing evil, whether from the womb or after faith.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Without works, faith only saves the newborn babe. With works, faith cannot save any child doing no good. Ungrown newborn babes without works are unjustified by doing no good.

Jas 2:17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

1 John 3:17But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?...Jas 4:17Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.


Any man doing evil has not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ the righteous, and any man doing no good is dead to the living God.

Romans 4 is only for newborn babes without any works to be judged by, and James 2 is only to converted children of God with works to account to the Father.

1 Peter {1:15} But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; {1:16} Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. {1:17} And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:

Only newborn babes becoming sons of God doing good, are the just living by faith and resurrected in the Son's own likeness.

Jhn 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Col 2:6As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.


3Jo 1:11Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.
Wow 😲

That is utter nonsense and a fairly impressive misuse of scripture. The simple, foundational fact of scripture is that it was written to and about adults, not infants. There is very little in its pages that applies to infants and even less that is directly soteriological. Most of those verses were written by a saved adult to saved adults about those saved old enough to comprehend what was written, not infants. We would have to believe infants are born with inherent faith, and that runs into immediate direct contradiction with John 3. He who does not believe in Jesus has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Faith comes from hearing (or so the synergists demand ;)).

Romans 10:14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Which is conspicuously absent from the op. That the audience context foundation of scripture would be entirely ignored is remarkable.




Accordingly, I have remarked on it 😏.
 
And it is a guarantee that each person will sin, because it is in our nature to do so. We have a knowledge of what is evil in God's eyes and we are drawn to it. It is our nature to do so.
When? Before being born? I don't think so. So how long after birth does that happen?
Adam caused this to happen.
Where did Adam's power to do that come from? God? Again, I don't think so.
Human babies are born of the flesh. They aren't born of the Spirit.
The spirit God forms in them is NOT DEAD!!
The spirit of a human is not separate from the flesh. It is a distinction.
It is indeed separate from the flesh. Our flesh, i.e., our bodies, come from our parents. Our spirits come from God.

We are living beings, that is souls [nephesh in the Hebrew]; we have a body, the flesh, that comes from our parents, and we have a spirit that comes from God.
 
Wow 😲

That is utter nonsense and a fairly impressive misuse of scripture. The simple, foundational fact of scripture is that it was written to and about adults, not infants. There is very little in its pages that applies to infants and even less that is directly soteriological. Most of those verses were written by a saved adult to saved adults about those saved old enough to comprehend what was written, not infants. We would have to believe infants are born with inherent faith, and that runs into immediate direct contradiction with John 3. He who does not believe in Jesus has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Faith comes from hearing (or so the synergists demand ;)).

Romans 10:14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Which is conspicuously absent from the op. That the audience context foundation of scripture would be entirely ignored is remarkable.




Accordingly, I have remarked on it 😏.
I think the newborn babes he is talking about are not babies, i.e., infants, but newly saved and regenerated persons at whatever age that occurs.
 
I think the newborn babes he is talking about are not babies, i.e., infants, but newly saved and regenerated persons at whatever age that occurs.
Ahh.... If so, then I stand corrected. Never mind 😏
 
I think the newborn babes he is talking about are not babies, i.e., infants, but newly saved and regenerated persons at whatever age that occurs.
That is true, yet did not make himself very clear, and that is what needs to be pointed out. He said:
Newborn babes are justified by faith without works. Converted Christians are justified with works.
If he had said: "Sinners are justified by Christ alone, and those that are justified, will have a faith that shows itself by godly deeds"........... then he would have been so much easier to follow what he desired to say.

I will also add this: Conversion is different from regeneration, yet generally speaking, it is new born believers that go through conversions, some quicker than others, and that it may take a few years for one to be seen as clearly establish in the faith and ready to teach others.
Newborn babes are justified by faith without works. Converted Christians are justified with works.
Even newborn believers can bring forth fruits showing true repentance and they must do so, before they cam be baptized into the faith/religion of Jesus Christ, if not, they they cannot be baptized. Matthew 3:8; Acts 8:37; etc.
 
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