Reading/Hearing Scripture is only a start

[prism]

Here is why...

Luke 24:45
And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Here is why...

Luke 24:45
And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

WhHich is the immediate effect of being indwelled BY THE HOLY SPIRIT - which occurred at John 20:22.

 

[prism]

WhHich is the immediate effect of being indwelled BY THE HOLY SPIRIT - which occurred at John 20:22.

Agreed, that's why this thread has the title 'Reading/hearing Scripture is only a start', we need God's Spirit to illuminate our understanding to comprehend His Word, not just do the academics of His Word.

 

[CrowCross]

Reading/Hearing Scripture is only a start​

Start of what? Salvation? Walking the christian life?

 

[prism]

Reading/Hearing Scripture is only a start​

Start of what? Salvation? Walking the christian life?

A start of truly understanding God's Word.

 

[CrowCross]

A start of truly understanding God's Word.

Which can mean a lot of different things.

Where am I at now? The Gospel can be presented..over and over again...but can't be seen or understood unless God the Father grants a person to understand the Gospel. (John 6:65)
God the father does this in several ways. One way is how He did it with Lydia....opened her heart....or even the way He did it in your OP as described in Luke 24:45.

 

[Carbon]

WhHich is the immediate effect of being indwelled BY THE HOLY SPIRIT - which occurred at John 20:22.

Through regeneration, which must come first.

 

[prism]

Which can mean a lot of different things.

One can question the meaning of just about anything I suppose.

Where am I at now? The Gospel can be presented..over and over again...but can't be seen or understood unless God the Father grants a person to understand the Gospel. (John 6:65)
God the father does this in several ways. One way is how He did it with Lydia....opened her heart....or even the way He did it in your OP as described in Luke 24:45.

Agreed, that's why I said 'a start in truly believing God's Word.' Your examples illustrated my point.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Through regeneration, which must come first.

There's that Calvinist "Buzz word again" According to the Calvinists here "Regeration" is a "twilight state" that doesn't mean "Born Again" but apparently DOES "lead into it".

 

[prism]

There's that Calvinist "Buzz word again" According to the Calvinists here "Regeration" is a "twilight state" that doesn't mean "Born Again" but apparently DOES "lead into it".

Are you referring to the quickening work God begins in a person, and continues unto completion?
If so, I don't know where the "twilight state" would fit in. At least, I don't see it in Scripture.

 

[Carbon]

Are you referring to the quickening work God begins in a person, and continues unto completion?
If so, I don't know where the "twilight state" would fit in. At least, I don't see it in Scripture.

This twilight thing he mentions is just something those who really don’t understand biblical theology and doctrine, come up with.

 

[Eleanor]

There's that Calvinist "Buzz word again" According to the Calvinists here "Regeration" is a "twilight state" that doesn't mean "Born Again" but apparently DOES "lead into it".

Methinks you are confused regarding Biblical regeneration.

It is by sovereign act of the Holy Spirit, depending on nothing but his sovereign choice, as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:3-8).

Rebirth is into eternal life by which we believe in Jesus Christ.

 

[sawdust]

There's that Calvinist "Buzz word again" According to the Calvinists here "Regeration" is a "twilight state" that doesn't mean "Born Again" but apparently DOES "lead into it".

I just had a very long "discussion" with a number of Calvinists regarding regeneration and at no stage did I ever deem their arguments meant some sort of interim stage when speaking of regeneration. We all agreed on regeneration being the same thing as noted in John 3. We only disagreed on when precisely it occurred, either before of after faith.

 

[sawdust]

Here is why...

Luke 24:45
And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

This is why Paul commands us to "be filled with the Spirit" (Eph.5:18). Without the filling of the Spirit we cannot comprehend biblical truths let alone make application.

 

[CrowCross]

I just had a very long "discussion" with a number of Calvinists regarding regeneration and at no stage did I ever deem their arguments meant some sort of interim stage when speaking of regeneration. We all agreed on regeneration being the same thing as noted in John 3. We only disagreed on when precisely it occurred, either before of after faith.

I figure it's all at the same time.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Methinks you are confused regarding Biblical regeneration.

Iv'e had several different versions of it from Calvinist paradigmatics . They seem to agree that it's NOT "Salvation", but something you have to have Before you can be saved - apparently a "Work around" for their "Total Depravity" fixation.

This since they don't believe that God can even communicate with one who's "Totally depraved' (WHICH IS SILLY). All through the OLD Testament God was dealing with "Totally depraved" people, since NOBODY was "Born again" - yet..

TO ME, "Regeneration" simply means "Being Born Again" / "Getting saved" / "Becoming a Christian" / "Being Reborn", and since Being Born again is the product of FAITH (gifted by God), then "which comes first" is meaningless.

It is by sovereign act of the Holy Spirit, depending on nothing but his sovereign choice, as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:3-8).

Rebirth is into eternal life by which we believe in Jesus Christ.

In other words "becoming Born Again of the Holy Spirit". And YES - NOBODY comes to Christ unless God DRAWS THEM (john 6:44).

 

[Bob Carabbio]

This is why Paul commands us to "be filled with the Spirit" (Eph.5:18). Without the filling of the Spirit we cannot comprehend biblical truths let alone make application.

More "Buzz words". John 20:22 is when the Disciples were INDWELLED by the Holy Spirit (resulting in Luke 24:45).

Being "Filled with the Spirit" / "Baptized in the Holy SPirit" is Acts 2:4, and is the Holy Spirit UPON the disciples, who were already "Infilled" by Him.
John 20:22 is INTERNAL, and Acts 2:4 is EXTERNAL.

People all through the Old Testament were gifted to do miracles when the Holy Spirit CAME ON THEM.

BUT, the Holy Spirit WAS IN none of them until after Calvary.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Are you referring to the quickening work God begins in a person, and continues unto completion?
If so, I don't know where the "twilight state" would fit in. At least, I don't see it in Scripture.

Calvinists always Tell me that "Regeneration" IS NOT "Salvation", and argue about What comes FIRST - "Regeneration" or "FAITH".

 

[Eleanor]

Iv'e had several different versions of it from Calvinist paradigmatics . They seem to agree that it's NOT "Salvation", but something you have to have Before you can be saved - apparently a "Work around" for their "Total Depravity" fixation.

This since they don't believe that God can even communicate with one who's "Totally depraved' (WHICH IS SILLY). All through the OLD Testament God was dealing with "Totally depraved" people, since NOBODY was "Born again" - yet..

TO ME, "Regeneration" simply means "Being Born Again" / "Getting saved" / "Becoming a Christian" / "Being Reborn", and since Being Born again is the product of FAITH (gifted by God), then "which comes first" is meaningless.

In other words "becoming Born Again of the Holy Spirit". And YES - NOBODY comes to Christ unless God DRAWS THEM (john 6:44).

God's redemptive work probably occurs all in one package: rebirth, faith, salvation.

 

[sawdust]

More "Buzz words". John 20:22 is when the Disciples were INDWELLED by the Holy Spirit (resulting in Luke 24:45).

Being "Filled with the Spirit" / "Baptized in the Holy SPirit" is Acts 2:4, and is the Holy Spirit UPON the disciples, who were already "Infilled" by Him.
John 20:22 is INTERNAL, and Acts 2:4 is EXTERNAL.

People all through the Old Testament were gifted to do miracles when the Holy Spirit CAME ON THEM.

BUT, the Holy Spirit WAS IN none of them until after Calvary.

No, they were anointed with the Spirit like the prophets of old and told to wait for the baptism of the Spirit. Christ breathed on them in John 20:22 not in them. They were not indwelt bodily until Pentecost. That is when the "new and living way" (Heb.10:20) was inaugurated for the first time for believers and they became new creatures in Christ (2Cor.5:17). This was the baptism of the Spirit.

The very nature of baptism is to be submerged into and become inundated with so it is more than the Spirit being "upon" the disciples.

Since Pentecost, when we are baptized in the Spirit we are regenerated, indwelt bodily and filled. We cannot lose our new spiritual life (regeneration) and the indwelling is a seal unto eternity (Eph.4:30) so cannot be lost either.

Being filled with the Spirit are not "buzz words" but is a command from Paul because we can walk according to our flesh rather than being led of the Spirit. If we are led by our flesh we are not filled with the Spirit but rather are grieving and/or quenching the Spirit. If the filling of the Spirit was something that could not be lost like the sealing (indwelling), then there would be no command to be filled.