Reading/Hearing Scripture is only a start

[Carbon]

FALSE. Abram had FAITH, but wasn't "Born again".

Sure he was. That's why he had faith.

 

[Carbon]

FALSE. Abram had FAITH, but wasn't "Born again".

Meaningless. No explanation, just "words".

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The dead in trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1) do not raise themselves to spiritual life and believe.

Yup. That's a "given".

They are raised from spiritual death to eternal life by the sovereign new birth of the Holy Spirit, whose choice is as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:3-8), whereupon they are able to see, hear and believe by the Holy Spirit.

The essence of the "Born Again Experience" is the indwelling Holy Spirit, which is what makes a person, a Christian.

 

[sawdust]

Salvation is not regeneration.

Regeneration is the new birth by sovereign act of the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-5), as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:6-8).
Prior to that, one cannot even see the kingdom of God, much less enter it.

While salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ, not by works (Eph 2:8-9), and is from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) on one's sin at the final judgment.

That salvation by faith in Jesus Christ results in faith's obedience to God, which obedience is evidence that the faith is true and not counterfeit (Mt 7:22-23).

The wages of sin is (spiritual) death. Christ died for sin. Regeneration is being made (spiritually) alive. Therefore you are saved from death. It is salvation. That the Lord has added far more to the package than simply being regenerated is due to His great mercy.

 

[Arial]

And FAITH is the "Motor" that drives 'em all. WItout FAITH (Heb 11:1) all you've got is "Religion", and "Theology".

What is your definition of faith as used in the Bible? Your own words please.

To say faith is the motor that drives regeneration---and everything ---is to misunderstand regeneration, faith, and salvation.

Can that which is unholy approach that which is holy? Is Christ holy? It is high time those of us who have been Christians for many years, stopped looking at it as if mankind is the center of the universe. That is what all this reading and hearing is supposed to accomplish. Time our religion became God centered instead of man centered.

It is God who forbids sinful man to come to Him through Christ. They must be cleansed first. And only God can cleanse them. And this He does in regeneration---cleansing them in the new birth.
John 3:3 Jesus answered him. "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God." 5. "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water (a direct reference to OT cleansings, which Nicodemus as a teacher should have known) and the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Without the new birth a person can not even see the kingdom let alone enter it. Jesus emphasized both of these sentences with truly, truly. which in the Jewish culture indicated, this is a certainty, it is extremely important, pay close attention. We need to quit skipping over things or guessing at their meaning instead of finding out the meaning.

There is no point in trying to separate the new birth, faith and salvation into steps. We cannot see what happens as it is happening in the spiritual realm. But the Bible clearly states that no one can see or enter the kingdom of God unless they are reborn, cleansed, made a holy vessel for and by God. And we have nothing in scripture that says it is faith that causes God to regenerate us. Anything twisted to say that is ignoring John 3. What we do have is we are saved by grace through faith, and that faith is a gift of God. If we have been reborn, when we hear the gospel, and we most certainly will, we believe it.

 

[Arial]

There's that Calvinist "Buzz word again" According to the Calvinists here "Regeration" is a "twilight state" that doesn't mean "Born Again" but apparently DOES "lead into it".

You need to support that accusation with quotes from those here who you say believe that. Otherwise it is as empty and fruitless as the "Calvinist buzz word" argument. When you give the quotes I am certain we will discover no one said any such thing, but your turned what they said into a straw man argument by superimposing your own words and feelings about it onto what was said, In other words, you did not understand what they said and are addressing something entirely opposed to what was said.

 

[prism]

That was directed specifically to His disciples, the twelve minus Judas. There is no basis for assuming that to be applicable to any others: Luke 24:44 Then he said to them, "These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you...."

So here Paul prays in vain?...

Ephesians 1:18 NASB95
I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,

Besides, I and many others have had the'eyes of their understanding opened', to narrow that down to only a possible two goes against the concept of the new birth and the work of God's Spirit..

John 16:13 NASB95
But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

 

[sawdust]

They seemed to be Jews hoping in their messiah, but I was going by this exchange...

Luke 24:19,21,25-26 NASB95
And He said to them, "What things?" And they said to Him, "The things about Jesus the Nazarene, who was a prophet mighty in deed and word in the sight of God and all the people, [21] But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, it is the third day since these things happened. [25] And He said to them, "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! [26] Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?"

.. besides, the Holy Spirit hadn't been poured out yet. (see Acts 2).

Jesus said they were slow to believe, not that they were unbelieving. A lot of folks today are slow to believe but that doesn't make them unbelievers.

At Pentecost the Spirit was given in a new way but this does not mean the Spirit has not always been at work in the world. OT believers, like the prophets, were in receipt of the Spirit. It was given in order to do a job. King David asked the Lord not take His Spirit from him (Ps.51:11). Jesus said that anyone could have asked for the Spirit.

Luke 11:13
If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

Today we no longer have to ask for the Spirit for when we are baptized we are automatically filled and indwelt and we cannot lose the indwelling as that is God's seal to mark us as belonging to Him on the day of Resurrection. The filling is God's leading of us (being in fellowship) but when we sin it means we have gone our own way and we lose the filling. We need to confess our sin as per 1 John 1:9 in order to be under the Lord's guidance again. This is why Paul tells us to be filled with the Spirit. I have been taught it is actually something Paul commands we do not simply something he recommends.

The Spirit of God is always needed in comprehending the word because the word is spiritual and must be spiritually discerned. He is the One who takes the things of Christ and makes them understandable to us. Only God can truly explain who God is.

 

[Arial]

That's the "Cessationist" mantra. Jesus used the word "endued" with power from on high. "Enduement is a "Clothing with", not an indwelling.

It has nothing to do with cessationism, and neither do you support the claim or even say what you mean. But just a heads up. Things like "cessationist mantra" and "Calvinist buzzwords" are invalid arguments against the position you are opposing. If anything it shows a complete lack of any valid argument being available.

You apparently believe that when GOD (Jesus) BREATHES on a person, NOTHING HAPPENS.

False accusation. But I will ask a question. Do you not believe that Jesus breathes on you unless you see something happen?

 

[Arial]

FALSE. Abram had FAITH, but wasn't "Born again".

How on earth do you know that? If you are just presuming that is true because if your beliefs are true it would be, then best include that in the mix rather than state it as fact. That would also require you to present your belief that leads to that one about Abraham, and lay down the track for us so we can decide for ourselves. Then---there is something to talk about and discuss.

 

[JIM]

John 16:13 NASB95
But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

Again, John 16:13 was directed at Jesus' disciples. You are not free to usurp what was spoken to the apostles who became God's messengers through divine revelation by the Holy Spirit. You are not one of them.

 

[Eleanor]

Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Yes, there is no faith to salvation without the washing of regeneration and renewal (of eternal life lost by Adam) of the Holy Spirit.

 

[JIM]

Besides, I and many others have had the'eyes of their understanding opened', to narrow that down to only a possible two goes against the concept of the new birth and the work of God's Spirit..

The new birth does not give you the gift of divine revelation.

 

[JIM]

Yes, there is no faith to salvation without the washing of regeneration and renewal (of eternal life lost by Adam) of the Holy Spirit.

Do you suppose the washing of regeneration is what Paul described concerning his own baptism in Acts 22:16 as the washing away of his sins? It is certainly the same Greek word λούω [louō] (verb form) and λουτρόν [loutron] (noun form).

 

[Eleanor]

FALSE. Abram had FAITH, but wasn't "Born again".

Abram believed in the promise (Ge 15:6) of Ge 15:5 (seed; Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16), by which faith he was saved and accounted as righteous (Ro 4:3).
Prior to his faith, Abram was spiritually dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1).
Spiritually dead men do not believe.
He had to be raised to spiritual life in the new birth in order to spiritually believe in the promise.

 

[Eleanor]

Yup. That's a "given".

The essence of the "Born Again Experience" is the indwelling Holy Spirit, which is what makes a person, a Christian.

The essence of the "Born Again Experience" is being raised from spiritual death to eternal life in spiritual rebirth of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit does not dwell within the spiritually dead.

 

[JIM]

Abram believed in the promise (Ge 15:6) of Ge 15:5 (seed; Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16), by which faith he was saved and accounted as righteous (Ro 4:3).
Prior to his faith, Abram was spiritually dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1).
Spiritually dead men do not believe.

Where do you find that in Scripture?

 

[Eleanor]

The wages of sin is (spiritual) death. Christ died for sin.

The wages of sin is physical death. Christ physically died to pay my debt for sin.

Regeneration is being made (spiritually) alive. Therefore you are saved from death. It is salvation. That the Lord has added far more to the package than simply being regenerated is due to His great mercy.

I am regenerated by the Holy Spirit and will physically die one day, I am not saved from physical death.

My faith in Jesus Christ, made possible by my regeneration of the Holy Spirit, saves me from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) on my sin and eternal death at the Final Judgment.

 

[Eleanor]

Do you suppose the washing of regeneration is what Paul described concerning his own baptism in Acts 22:16 as the washing away of his sins? It is certainly the same Greek word λούω [louō] (verb form) and λουτρόν [loutron] (noun form).

Paul's baptism was the NT outward sign of an inward work of grace (cleansing of sin), as circumcision was the OT outward sign of an inward work of grace (cutting off of sin). (Col 2:11-12)

 

[Eleanor]

Abram believed in the promise (Ge 15:6) of Ge 15:5 (seed; Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16), by which faith he was saved and accounted as righteous (Ro 4:3).
Prior to his faith, Abram was spiritually dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1).
Spiritually dead men do not believe.
He had to be raised to spiritual life in the new birth in order to spiritually believe in the promise.

Where do you find that in Scripture?

Those Scriptures are given in the post.