Question for Arminians and Calvinists on foreknowledge

[Eleanor]

Why not? Being tempted does not predispose ability.

It's not a temptation if it does not.
Being on a diet and your suggestion we go for a scoop of ice cream would be a temptation, suggesting we go for a scoop of dog poop would not.
Jesus was tempted as we are.

 

[fastfredy0]

I have always envisioned me running into his arms.

Slightly different twist on your theme:

 

[praise_yeshua]

Interesting question. Probably no way to know as its not like God can't do it anyway He wants.
Technically, Adam's immortal body never existed as in God's decree Adam's original body was going to end.
Aside:
Premise 1: Before Adam's sin nothing died
Premise 2: Currently, our red blood cells last a month and then die (as best I recall)
Conclusion: Adam never created new blood cells as they were not needed ????? (Who knows? ... lol)


God is Spirit and as such is immaterial. A body has limitations and God does not. Christ's body was mutable and God is not. Therefore, IMO, Christ's body was a creation with a beginning and the dwelling of God the Son justified Christ being God.
Hmmm, probably some debate partly due to definitions lacking.


That is hotly debated. See https://www.gotquestions.org/could-Jesus-have-sinned.html for discussion


Yes. Only the human nature of Christ could die.

I'm going to say this and it might be offensive to some, but I'm just stating fact. Please feel free to correct me. Dispensational teachings have caused these types of errors. Dispensationalism creates divisions in most teaching and then pretend that those divisions OPERATE separately from one another. This not true.

There are distinctions and constructs in most anything that exists. However, there is no division in operation here.

 

[Eleanor]

So you really believe the Father is incapable of certain functions within the Holy Trinity? They are all coequal coeternal and copowerful. That is the basic teaching of the Holy Trinity.

It's not about capability, it's about organization of function: the Father wills, the Son executes, the Holy Spirit applies.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It's not a temptation if it does not.
Being on a diet and your suggestion we go for a scoop of ice cream would be a temptation, suggesting we go for a scoop of dog poop would not.
Jesus was tempted as we are.

God needs ice cream? Jesus supernaturally withstood temptation. He did what NO human was capable of doing. You can't boil down Jesus to simple his flesh alone. He operated as a whole.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It's not about capability, it's about organization of function: the Father wills, the Son executes, the Holy Spirit applies.

That organization isn't divided. You're saying that the Father is incapable of operating a certain way. You're creation divisions that do not exist.

 

[Eleanor]

God needs ice cream?

I give up, does he?

Jesus supernaturally withstood temptation. He did what NO human was capable of doing. You can't boil down Jesus to simple his flesh alone. He operated as a whole.

Not always, there was divine knowledge not available to his humanity, he did not know the time of his second coming (Mk 13:32).

 

[praise_yeshua]

I give up, does he?

Not always, there was divine knowledge not available to his humanity, he did not know the time of his second coming (Mk 13:32).

No need to give up. Your position should withstand critique. I've debated these topics for a very long time. I'm comfortable with my position. You're not going to make me angry over it. We can choose to disagree.

Mk 13:32 is a good discussion. Maybe a good topic for another thread. I don't want to keep responding here in this thread. Invite me please....

 

[ReverendRV]

Why not? (scriptural source please)

I can't give you a Verbatim Verse saying what I claim; but since these are the Theology Boards, I can make a Theological Case...

Peccability and Impeccability are Theological terms, not Biblical Terms. Impeccability teaches that Jesus has always been Unable to Sin. At the end of the Day, I side with Impeccability; but we shouldn't summarily dismiss Peccability; Jesus sweated blood to fight off Sin...

I'm not very interested in defending Peccability to the Hilt, but Jesus suppressed the expression of his Deity in order to live his Life on the level of an Unfallen Adam...


This is THE question; did Jesus suppress the expression of his Impeccability? If he didn't, there's no Debate. But if he did

 

[Eleanor]

That organization isn't divided. You're saying that the Father is incapable of operating a certain way. You're creation divisions that do not exist.

Are you sure about that?

The Son is subject to the Father, for the Son is sent by the Father in the Father's name (Jn 5:23, 36, 43).
The Spirit is subject to the Father, for the Spirit is sent by the Father in the Son's name (Jn 14:26).
The Spirit is subject to the Son as well as the Father, for the Spirit is sent by the Son as well as the Father (Jn 15:26, 16:7, 14:26).

Jesus presents three distinct and separate persons in the Trinity and one God: co-equal with different functions--the Son doing the will of the Father, and the Spirit doing the will of the Father and the Son.

 

[Eleanor]

No need to give up.

Well, I have no way of knowing if God needs ice cream, as you asked, so I have to give up and let you give me the answer.

Your position should withstand critique

Will you be showing that the human Jesus was blended with the divine Son of the Trinity when the human Jesus did not have access to the knowledge of the time of his second coming?

I've debated these topics for a very long time. I'm comfortable with my position. You're not going to make me angry over it. We can choose to disagree.

You disagree that Jesus did not have access to the divine knowledge of his second coming?

Mk 13:32 is a good discussion. Maybe a good topic for another thread. I don't want to keep responding here in this thread. Invite me please....

I'll let you have that privilege.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Are you sure about that?

The Son is subject to the Father, for the Son is sent by the Father in the Father's name (Jn 5:23, 36, 43).
The Spirit is subject to the Father, for the Spirit is sent by the Father in the Son's name (Jn 14:26).
The Spirit is subject to the Son as well as the Father, for the Spirit is sent by the Son as well as the Father (Jn 15:26, 16:7, 14:26).

Jesus presents three distinct and separate persons in the Trinity and one God: co-equal with different functions--the Son doing the will of the Father, and the Spirit doing the will of the Father and the Son.

You're using the word subject as subservient. Why are doing this?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I can't give you a Verbatim Verse saying what I claim; but since these are the Theology Boards, I can make a Theological Case...

Peccability and Impeccability are Theological terms, not Biblical Terms. Impeccability teaches that Jesus has always been Unable to Sin. At the end of the Day, I side with Impeccability; but we shouldn't summarily dismiss Peccability; Jesus sweated blood to fight off Sin...

I'm not very interested in defending Peccability to the Hilt, but Jesus suppressed the expression of his Deity in order to live his Life on the level of an Unfallen Adam...


This is THE question; did Jesus suppress the expression of his Impeccability? If he didn't, there's no Debate. But if he did

No suppression whatsoever. There wasn't deviate will within the humanity of Jesus Christ. Suppression requires an alternate will.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Well, I have no way of knowing if God needs ice cream, as you asked, so I have to give up and let you give me the answer.

Will you be showing that the human Jesus was blended with the divine Son of the Trinity when the human Jesus did not have access to the knowledge of the time of his second coming?

You disagree that Jesus did not have access to the divine knowledge of his second coming?

I'll let you have that privilege.

I said union. I asked you to start it because you referenced it. Also, I know I will participate [edit by moderator: inflammatory comment removed]

 

[praise_yeshua]

Well, I have no way of knowing if God needs ice cream, as you asked, so I have to give up and let you give me the answer.

Will you be showing that the human Jesus was blended with the divine Son of the Trinity when the human Jesus did not have access to the knowledge of the time of his second coming?

You disagree that Jesus did not have access to the divine knowledge of his second coming?

I'll let you have that privilege.

God needs nothing. Jesus supernaturally survived fasting in the wilderness that would have killed any man.

 

[Eleanor]

You're using the word subject as subservient. Why are doing this?

I am merely reporting what the NT reveals, the Holy Spirit doing the will of the Father and the Son, the Son doing the will of the Father.
What word do you prefer?

Does the NT ever present the Father or the Son doing the will of the Holy Spirit?

 

[civic]

It's not a temptation if it does not.
Being on a diet and your suggestion we go for a scoop of ice cream would be a temptation, suggesting we go for a scoop of dog poop would not.
Jesus was tempted as we are.

I’m not tempted to be a homosexual , it’s not a thought or on my radar . Just the same as Jesus . Sin was not on His radar. He was tested/ tempted but since He is Impeccable sin has no chance .

 

[Eleanor]

I’m not tempted to be a homosexual , it’s not a thought or on my radar .

Precisely my point. . .you aren't tempted in actuality.

Scripture reports Jesus as being tempted as we are, which is in actuality.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I am merely reporting what the NT reveals, the Holy Spirit doing the will of the Father and the Son, the Son doing the will of the Father.
What word do you prefer?

Does the NT ever present the Father or the Son doing the will of the Holy Spirit?

There is no separation of wills. Perfect Union. They don't discuss the best action to take. Perfect Union. I can't practice it myself but I can try to imagine it. I imagine perfection. Many people try to treat the relationship of the Trinity as if they would with their own children. You can started that way but you need embrace perfection in Union. We don't have the ability to practice this now but God has never lost it.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Precisely my point. . .you aren't tempted in actuality.

Scripture reports Jesus as being tempted as we are, which is in actuality.

No. Temptation is not inclination.