Question for Arminians and Calvinists on foreknowledge

[praise_yeshua]

Kenosis is about no divinity at all in the person of Jesus.
Incarnation is about both humanity and divinity in the one person of Jesus.

You over-correct the heresy of kenosis by making the person of Jesus only divine.
The person of Jesus is both, the necessary result of two natures, human and divine.

Which has the power? His flesh was weak but He had no semblance of weakness in Divinity. He was NEVER capable of sin. His Divinity prevented it.

As a rather crude example. If you add alcohol to water to destroy bacteria, the solution can not sustain bacteria. However, the water is still water. Water alone is corruptible.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, but his humanity could sin, right?

I don't believe so.

 

[Eleanor]

Christs Resurrected body is eternal and cannot suffer corruption its not a possibility. And His Resurrected body unlike ours now which has limitations seemed not to have those same restrictions. Also will we need food, water to sustain us daily ? There are many unknowns about our Resurrected body and many that are pointed out by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15. The pre-fall body was susceptible to sin, death and corruption whereas the Resurrected body is not and the limitations are different. I try and not go where scripture doesn't speak or address.

Where Scripture makes an end to teaching, I make an end to learning.

 

[Eleanor]

I believe Saint Thomas put his finger into the Side of Jesus, and he felt Christ's Heart beat around his fingertip...

Or did he feel it beat?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, but his humanity could sin, right?

To be clear, I am not saying His flesh wasn't weak and potential corruptible. It is the union of Divinity that made Him Impeccable.

I said combination and it better to say "union". I corrected it.

 

[ReverendRV]

Or did he feel it beat?

Another Supposition; the Spear pierced Christ's Heart. Since he still bears his piercings, his Heart shouldn't have healed but kept it's Piercing. Having the Heart beat around the Fingertip is plausible...

It's all just Supposition though...

 

[Eleanor]

From got ?

In his first letter to the church in Corinth, Paul discusses the great differences between our earthly bodies and our resurrected bodies (see 1 Corinthians 15:35-54). Contrasting our earthly bodies with the splendor of our heavenly (resurrected) bodies, Paul says, “The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body” (vv. 42-44, emphasis added). In short, our resurrected bodies are spiritual, imperishable, and raised in glory and power.

Through the first Adam, we received our natural bodies, perfectly suited to an earthly environment. However, they became perishable as a consequence of the Fall. Due to disobedience, mankind became mortal. Aging, deterioration, and eventual death now affect all of us. From dust we came, and to dust shall we return (Genesis 3:19; Ecclesiastes 3:20). Our resurrection bodies, on the other hand, will be “raised imperishable.” They will never experience sickness, decay, deterioration, or death. And “when the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable… then the saying that is written will come true: ‘Death has been swallowed up in victory’” (1 Corinthians 15:54).

As a result of the Fall, we are “sown in dishonor.” We were originally made perfect and in the image of God (Genesis 1:27), but sin has brought dishonor. Yet believers have the promise that our imperfect and dishonored bodies will one day be raised in glory. Freed from the restrictions imposed by sin, our resurrected bodies will be honorable and perfectly suited for pleasing and praising our Creator throughout eternity.

Our current bodies are also characterized by weakness and debility. Our earthly “temples” are undeniably fragile and susceptible to the plethora of diseases that ravage mankind. We are also weakened by sin and temptation. One day, though, our bodies will be raised in power and glory, and we will no longer be subject to the flaws and fragility that pervade life today.

Last, the resurrected body will be a spiritual one. Our natural bodies are suited for living in this world, but this is the only realm in which we can live. “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 15:50).

"Flesh and blood" refer to the mortal, corrupt, sinful body.

After the resurrection we will have a “spiritual body,” perfectly suited for living in heaven. This does not mean that we will be only spirits—spirits do not have bodies—but that our resurrected bodies will not need physical sustenance or depend on natural means of supporting life.

We get a glimpse of what our resurrection bodies will be like when we recall Jesus’ post-resurrection appearances. He still had visible wounds, and His disciples could physically touch Him, yet He was able to travel effortlessly and appear and disappear at will. He could go through walls and doors yet could also eat and drink and sit and talk. Scripture informs us that our “lowly bodies” will be just “like His glorious body” (Philippians 3:21). Indeed, the physical limitations imposed by sin that hinder our ability to fully serve Him on earth will be forever gone, freeing us to praise and serve and glorify Him for eternity.

 

[civic]

To be clear, I am not saying His flesh wasn't weak and potential corruptible. It is the union of Divinity that made Him Impeccable.

I said combination and it better to say "union". I corrected it.

Ditto

 

[ReverendRV]

To be clear, I am not saying His flesh wasn't weak and potential corruptible. It is the union of Divinity that made Him Impeccable.

I said combination and it better to say "union". I corrected it.

The two BECOME One...

 

[praise_yeshua]

The two BECOME One...

What a pleasure to know HIM....

 

[ReverendRV]

The two BECOME One...

Hypostatic Union ~ by ReverendRV * May 20

John 1:1+14 KJV; In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

This is the account of how Jesus Christ came into being. The Apostle John tells us Jesus is the ‘Word’ of God, and because of this, Jesus is God. There was a moment in time where the God of Creation condescended and entered into his Creation to become a Creature; the Man Jesus of Nazareth. You ask, “But how is that possible? The Bible tells us that God does NOT change!” ~ You are correct; so since God became flesh, this had to be accomplished in such a way that it wouldn’t cause God to Change. There is a Doctrine in Theology called Monophysitism which says that God did change his Essence when he became Flesh; but because God does not change, we know that this Doctrine is wrong. The correct Doctrine is called the Hypostatic Union. This means that God became a Man through a ‘Union’, but this doesn’t cause a change in the Nature of God. ~ Here is an example of a Hypostatic Union, that’s found within the pages of the Bible…

People have been Marrying since the beginning. Because of this, we don’t have a problem understanding that ‘the two become One’. The Bible says, “For this reason a Man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his Wife, and the two shall become One flesh; the Husband will cleave to his Wife'. The Man and Woman do not become a new amalgamation, but their spirits do cleave to the point they become one in a mingling, which is so extensive that their Souls cannot be unwound. Even if you unite yourself with a Harlot, the two have become One. ~ I watched an episode of the television show ‘Mythbusters’. They put the Myth to the test that if you interlace each page of two large telephone books together, you can’t pull them apart. When applying a pulling force, the pages will Cleave to one another through Friction. The Mythbusters played tug-of-war and could not pull them apart. They tied the phone books between two trucks and could not pull them apart. Finally, they tore them asunder between two tanks. This is an example of a Hypostatic Union. The two phone books were essentially ‘one’ because of their cleaving to each other, even though neither phone book became the other phone book. An Atlanta phone number did not become a phone number in a Dallas phone book because of this Union; no change of Essence took place. ~ Jesus is the Godman because of a Hypostatic Union…

Have you kept the Ten Commandments? If you’ve committed Adultery and become united with a Harlot, then you can find Forgiveness for your Sins. Go to God the Father through the Godman Jesus Christ! He is our Advocate; there is no one more suited to mend the broken relationship between Man and God than the Godman himself! Jesus died on the Cross for our Sins so that we will not have to die for our Sins in an Eternal Hell; what a ‘middle man’! Have Faith in the risen Christ as your Savior and you will never be put to shame, you will be Saved from Sin and Hell and you will dwell in the paradise of Heaven. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God and read your Bible. ~ But there’s a sad irony; there’re some who call themselves Christians who do not believe that God became flesh. They try to separate the Man from God, or God from the Man; but Separation from God is Death. We Cleave to Jesus Christ through Faith in him…

Matthew 19:6 NKJV; "So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."

 

[Eleanor]

Consider.... Blood is just a carrier of life. It is not life itself. The "breath" of God gifted to Adam continues on in the life of all Adam's descendents.

I believe a general understanding of "Kosher" here doesn't completely represent the facts. It is close though. Not criticizing just adding to the comments.

Yes, not eating blood is not about a health problem with blood, but about the use of blood in the OT for atonement, prefiguring the NT.

 

[fastfredy0]

At the creation of man, before the fall, did we have this same type of body as the resurrected Jesus? And after the fall did God then change what was an immortal body into a mortal body---and did the same with all things that had the breath of life as nothing can be allowed to live forever in rebellion to God?

Interesting question. Probably no way to know as its not like God can't do it anyway He wants.
Technically, Adam's immortal body never existed as in God's decree Adam's original body was going to end.
Aside:
Premise 1: Before Adam's sin nothing died
Premise 2: Currently, our red blood cells last a month and then die (as best I recall)
Conclusion: Adam never created new blood cells as they were not needed ????? (Who knows? ... lol)

And did Jesus as the second person of the Trinity always have a body as He has in the resurrection?

God is Spirit and as such is immaterial. A body has limitations and God does not. Christ's body was mutable and God is not. Therefore, IMO, Christ's body was a creation with a beginning and the dwelling of God the Son justified Christ being God.
Hmmm, probably some debate partly due to definitions lacking.

but one [Christ] that could be tempted by sin as we were at our creation?

That is hotly debated. See https://www.gotquestions.org/could-Jesus-have-sinned.html for discussion

And it is this mortal body that He took on that was raised from death to immortality as the firstfruits of what is our certain hope?

Yes. Only the human nature of Christ could die.

 

[Eleanor]

Which has the power? His flesh was weak but He had no semblance of weakness in Divinity. He was NEVER capable of sin. His Divinity prevented it.

As a rather crude example. If you add alcohol to water to destroy bacteria, the solution can not sustain bacteria. However, the water is still water. Water alone is corruptible.

You blended the humanity and divinity.
They are not blended, they are two separate natures in one person, just as there are three separate persons in the one God, and none of them being blended.

 

[Eleanor]

I don't believe so.

He could be tempted as we are if he were unable to sin.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You blended the humanity and divinity.
They are not blended, they are two separate natures in one person, just as there are three separate persons in the one God, and none of them being blended.

I don't believe that I am.

That is why I said "union". We could argue days over aspects of "union". However, there is a danger of ignoring the Union that exists in these relationships. The Union is what is important. There is no Division in a Union. When God does something, ALL of God does it.

 

[praise_yeshua]

He could be tempted as we are if he were unable to sin.

Why not? Being tempted does not predispose ability.

 

[Eleanor]

To be clear, I am not saying His flesh wasn't weak and potential corruptible. It is the union of Divinity that made Him Impeccable.

I said combination and it better to say "union". I corrected it.

It is neither, as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not a union in the Godhead, they are three separate persons with separate functions and relationships within the Trinity.

 

[fastfredy0]

He couldn't have Died if his Body was Impeccable...

Why not? (scriptural source please)

 

[praise_yeshua]

It is neither, tas he Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not a union in the Godhead, they are three separate persons with separate functions and relationships within the Trinity.

So you really believe the Father is incapable of certain functions within the Holy Trinity? They are all coequal coeternal and copowerful. That is the basic teaching of the Holy Trinity.