Prove the Practice of Worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son

[Eleanor]

Jesus was created direct first and last. It is what begotten actually means. Coll 1:15--The FIRSTBORN of all creation.
YHWH was speaking at Ex 6:3--not Jesus

YHWH said to my Lord( Jesus) proves he is not YHWH.
YHWH was king-1Chron 16:31---Jesus had to be appointed as king( Daniel 7:13-15)--Proving he is not YHWH.
Hallowed be THY(Father) name=YHWH(Jehovah)--not our name--Thy name.

They prove only that the Son was a separate person than the Father.

No man has seen God. All of Gods servants go forth in his name. Since the bible does not contradict itself. There are alternate meanings to certain things. It wasn't actually Jehovah who appeared to Abraham, or to Moses.
Here is another example of an alternate meaning--All who believe will be saved. Yet at Matt 7:22-23( judgement scenario) these believe, but will not be saved.
So sometimes something said is a partial truth.

There is counterfeit faith of Mt 7:22-23, and genuine faith of salvation.

The Hebrew scholars say there is no statement in the OT that translates-I am that i am. It translates, i will be what i will be.

Actually, it translates more closely, as "I am present" (with you)

Only found in trinity translations to mislead by Jesus answering the pharisees honestly, that is all by saying i am before Abraham, saying he lived before Abraham that is all.

All that it is?
Then he existed before he was born.

There is no capitol G God in the last line at John 1:1 in the Greek lexicons. Mistranslating it put a capitol G god in the last line. It has mislead billions.

Distinction without a difference.

The Greek did not have capital letters until centuries later.

 

[civic]

Yes Jehovah sent another.

Another One that is equal who is also Lord, YHWH, God etc

 

[Eleanor]

Jesus was created direct first and last. It is what begotten actually means. Coll 1:15--The FIRSTBORN of all creation.
YHWH was speaking at Ex 6:3--not Jesus

YHWH said to my Lord( Jesus) proves he is not YHWH.
YHWH was king-1Chron 16:31---Jesus had to be appointed as king( Daniel 7:13-15)--Proving he is not YHWH.
Hallowed be THY(Father) name=YHWH(Jehovah)--not our name--Thy name.

The NT presents Jesus as God:

I. As the YHWH of the OT in

Mt 3:3, Lk 1:67-68, 76 (Isa 40:3) - Jesus is the YHWH of whom the voice calling in the wilderness (John the Baptist) prepared the way.

Ro 10:9, 13 (Joel 2:32) - Paul teaches Jesus is the YHWH of Joel's prophecy that "everyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved."

Heb 1:6 (Dt 32:43) - Heb quotes Moses' song referring to YHWH and says it applies to Jesus.

Rev 1:12-18 (Isa 44:6, 48:12) - the man in the vision is Jesus (1:18, 2:8) who identifies himself as the First and the Last which is YHWH identification of himself.

Rev 21:6, 22:12-13) (Rev 1:8) - the man in the vision (Jesus) identifies himself as the Alpha and Omega of Rev 1:8, which is YHWH.

Rev 21:5-7 (Rev 20:11-13) -Jesus, the one on the throne (Rev 20:11-13 with Jn 5:22, 27, 9:39), is God (Rev 21:7).

The Elohim and YHWH who created all things (Ge 1:1, Is 44:24, Jer 10:16) is Jesus (Jn 1:3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:2b, 10).

Jesus is
Immanuel (Isa 7:14, Mt 1:23) "God with us;"
Mighty God, Everlasting Father" (Isa 9:6);
God who came to save (Isa 35:4-6, 43:11),
YHWH Adonai of Eze 34:11-16 who is the shepherd of the sheep (Jn 10:11-15).

II. Jews understood that Jesus said he was God, seeking many times to stone him for blasphemy (Mk 2:3-7, Jn 6:41-42, 10:30-33, 5:18, 8:58-59, 19:7--Lev 24:16).

III. Paul said we are waiting for the glorious appearing of 'the great God and Savior of us Jesus Christ." (Tit 2:13)

IV. The NT testifies that Jesus is not an angel (Heb 1:4-14), that his "name" is Son--a name to which no angel can lay claim (Heb 1:4), that he is begotten (giving him the same nature as God, divine) and that he is the only begotten of God, he has no brothers like himself, divine.

V. The NT presents worship of Jesus together with his Father:
To the gods of paganism (Ac 17:22-27), Paul opposes one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ (1 Co 8:5-6) to be worshipped, and shows
worship of Jesus (Php 2:10),
prayer to Jesus (Ac 7:59, 9:14, 2 Co 12:8, 1 Co 1:2, 16:22, Rev 22:20)
praise to Jesus (Ro 9:5, 2 Tim 4:8, 2 Pe 3;18, Rev 1:5-6, 5:10, 7:13)
desired divine blessing of Jesus (1 Th 3:11-13, 2 Th 3:5, 16)
all of which are reserved to God alone (Ex 20:3-5, Mt 4:9-10, Ac 10:25-26, Rev 19:10, 22:8-9).

VI. The NT presents Jesus as having the attributes of God:
eternal existence - Jn 1:1, 2, 1 Jn 1:2, Rev 1:8, 22:13,
omnipresence - Mt 18:20, 28:20, Ac 18:10.
omniscience - Mt 9:4, Jn 2:24-25, 6:64, 21:17b, 16:30, Col 2:3,
omnipotence - Mt 28:18, Jn 3:35, 6:39b, 40b, 54b, 11:25, 13:3, Php 3:21, Col 1:17, 19, 2:9, Heb 1:3, 10-12, Rev 1:8, 21:5 (Da 7:14),
immutability - Heb 1:10-12, 13:8,
providence - Lk 10:22, Jn 3:35, 17:2, Eph 1:22, Col 1:17, Heb 1:3,
forgiveness of sin - Mk 2:7-11, Ac 5:31, Col 3:13,
judges sin - Mt 25:31-32, Jn 5:22, 27, Ac 10:42, 17:31, Ro 2:16, 14:10, 2 Co 5:10, 2 Tim 4:1,
gives eternal life - Jn 5:21, 6:54, 57, 11:25-26 1 Co 15:45,
source of eternal life - Jn 1:4, 5:26, 14:6, Ac 3:15, 1 Jn 1:1-2, 5:11-12, 20, Rev 1:18.

Confession that "Jesus is Lord" means to acknowledge that Jesus is a person to be invoked, trusted, known, praised and adored as God the Father is (Jn 5:23); i.e., as divine.


The NT witnesses throughout that Jesus is God.

 

[Keiw1]

Fixed it for ya - the boldface above is mine.

You fixed 0-- because darkness rules you. Fact--If YHWH speaks to another it proves 100% that other one is not YHWH.

 

[Eleanor]

That meant, don't just say a written prayer, but pray out of the heart in accordance to that model prayer, but always to the Father.

The NT presents worship of Jesus together with his Father:
To the gods and lords of pagan polytheism (Ac 17:22-27), Paul opposes one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ (1 Co 8:5-6) to be worshipped, and shows
worship of Jesus (Php 2:10),
prayer to Jesus (Ac 7:59, 9:14, 2 Co 12:8, 1 Co 1:2, 16:22, Rev 22:20)
praise to Jesus (Ro 9:5, 2 Tim 4:8, 2 Pe 3;18, Rev 1:5-6, 5;10 7:13)
desired divine blessing of Jesus (1 Th 3:11-13, 2 Th 3:5, 16)
all of which are reserved to God alone (Ex 20:3-5, t 4:9-10, Ac 10:25-26, Rev 22:8-9).

 

[Keiw1]

According to your changed Bible version I reckon. The Father can very well speak to His Son, Jehovah.

Jehovah is the God men had seen in the O.T. They heard this Jehovah spoke. But Jesus said this;

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

So if that was not the Father seen and heard in the O.T. that appeared to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob, then who was it?

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

So Jesus Christ was Jehovah before His incarnation.

No Jesus was never Jehovah.

 

[Keiw1]

They prove only that the Son was a separate person than the Father.

There is counterfeit faith of Mt 7:22-23, and genuine faith of salvation.

Actually, it translates more closely, as "I am present" (with you)

All that it is?
Then he existed before he was born.

Distinction without a difference.

The Greek did not have capital letters until centuries later.

Yes Jesus is the FIRSTBORN of all creation= created direct-first and last, all other things created through him. That makes him-Gods master worker of Prov 8.

 

[Keiw1]

Another One that is equal who is also Lord, YHWH, God etc

If he were equal, He would know the day and hour of Gods day of anger. He would have already been king but had to be appointed,( Daniel 7:13-15) then he hand it back to his God and Father and subject himself forever-1Cor 15:24-28-- Hewould already have had all authority but it had to be given to him. Etc.

 

[Keiw1]

The NT presents Jesus as God:

I. As the YHWH of the OT in

Mt 3:3, Lk 1:67-68, 76 (Isa 40:3) - Jesus is the YHWH of whom the voice calling in the wilderness (John the Baptist) prepared the way.

Ro 10:9, 13 (Joel 2:32) - Paul teaches Jesus is the YHWH of Joel's prophecy that "everyone who calls on the name of YHWH will be saved."

Heb 1:6 (Dt 32:43) - Heb quotes Moses' song referring to YHWH and says it applies to Jesus.

Rev 1:12-18 (Isa 44:6, 48:12) - the man in the vision is Jesus (1:18, 2:8) who identifies himself as the First and the Last which is YHWH identification of himself.

Rev 21:6, 22:12-13) (Rev 1:8) - the man in the vision (Jesus) identifies himself as the Alpha and Omega of Rev 1:8, which is YHWH.

Rev 21:5-7 (Rev 20:11-13) -Jesus, the one on the throne (Rev 20:11-13 with Jn 5:22, 27, 9:39), is God (Rev 21:7).

The Elohim and YHWH who created all things (Ge 1:1, Is 44:24, Jer 10:16) is Jesus (Jn 1:3, Col 1:16-17, Heb 1:2b, 10).

Jesus is
Immanuel (Isa 7:14, Mt 1:23) "God with us;"
Mighty God, Everlasting Father" (Isa 9:6);
God who came to save (Isa 35:4-6, 43:11),
YHWH Adonai of Eze 34:11-16 who is the shepherd of the sheep (Jn 10:11-15).

II. Jews understood that Jesus said he was God, seeking many times to stone him for blasphemy (Mk 2:3-7, Jn 6:41-42, 10:30-33, 5:18, 8:58-59, 19:7--Lev 24:16).

III. Paul said we are waiting for the glorious appearing of 'the great God and Savior of us Jesus Christ." (Tit 2:13)

IV. The NT testifies that Jesus is not an angel (Heb 1:4-14), that his "name" is Son--a name to which no angel can lay claim (Heb 1:4), that he is begotten (giving him the same nature as God, divine) and that he is the only begotten of God, he has no brothers like himself, divine.

V. The NT presents worship of Jesus together with his Father:
To the gods of paganism (Ac 17:22-27), Paul opposes one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ (1 Co 8:5-6) to be worshipped, and shows
worship of Jesus (Php 2:10),
prayer to Jesus (Ac 7:59, 9:14, 2 Co 12:8, 1 Co 1:2, 16:22, Rev 22:20)
praise to Jesus (Ro 9:5, 2 Tim 4:8, 2 Pe 3;18, Rev 1:5-6, 5:10, 7:13)
desired divine blessing of Jesus (1 Th 3:11-13, 2 Th 3:5, 16)
all of which are reserved to God alone (Ex 20:3-5, Mt 4:9-10, Ac 10:25-26, Rev 19:10, 22:8-9).

VI. The NT presents Jesus as having the attributes of God:
eternal existence - Jn 1:1, 2, 1 Jn 1:2, Rev 1:8, 22:13,
omnipresence - Mt 18:20, 28:20, Ac 18:10.
omniscience - Mt 9:4, Jn 2:24-25, 6:64, 21:17b, 16:30, Col 2:3,
omnipotence - Mt 28:18, Jn 3:35, 6:39b, 40b, 54b, 11:25, 13:3, Php 3:21, Col 1:17, 19, 2:9, Heb 1:3, 10-12, Rev 1:8, 21:5 (Da 7:14),
immutability - Heb 1:10-12, 13:8,
providence - Lk 10:22, Jn 3:35, 17:2, Eph 1:22, Col 1:17, Heb 1:3,
forgiveness of sin - Mk 2:7-11, Ac 5:31, Col 3:13,
judges sin - Mt 25:31-32, Jn 5:22, 27, Ac 10:42, 17:31, Ro 2:16, 14:10, 2 Co 5:10, 2 Tim 4:1,
gives eternal life - Jn 5:21, 6:54, 57, 11:25-26 1 Co 15:45,
source of eternal life - Jn 1:4, 5:26, 14:6, Ac 3:15, 1 Jn 1:1-2, 5:11-12, 20, Rev 1:18.

Confession that "Jesus is Lord" means to acknowledge that Jesus is a person to be invoked, trusted, known, praised and adored as God the Father is (Jn 5:23); i.e., as divine.


The NT witnesses throughout that Jesus is God.

The NT teaches Jesus has a God just like us-over and over- John 20:17, Rev 3:12--Coll 1:3, 2 Cor 1:3, Eph 1:3,17-- 1Cor 15:24-28--1 Peter 1:3

 

[civic]

If he were equal, He would know the day and hour of Gods day of anger. He would have already been king but had to be appointed,( Daniel 7:13-15) then he hand it back to his God and Father and subject himself forever-1Cor 15:24-28-- Hewould already have had all authority but it had to be given to him. Etc.

Looks like He is God since know one but Himself knows the name written . Looks like your reasoning has Back fired . Only the Son knows the name .

Revelation 19:12
His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself.

 

[Eleanor]

The NT teaches Jesus has a God just like us-over and over- John 20:17, Rev 3:12--Coll 1:3, 2 Cor 1:3, Eph 1:3,17-- 1Cor 15:24-28--1 Peter 1:3

Falls somewhat short of addressing the Scriptures presented.

Yes, the human nature of the God-man had a God; i.e., the Father, the same Father of the divine nature of Jesus.

 

[Keiw1]

Looks like He is God since know one but Himself knows the name written . Looks like your reasoning has Back fired . Only the Son knows the name .

Revelation 19:12
His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself.

You throw away factual reasoning and twist 1 line. Rev 1:1 proves 100% Jesus is not God--A revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him.---See 1 being, God, gave another being-Jesus a revelation. 2 beings 1 is God 1 is not. There is only 1 God.

 

[civic]

You throw away factual reasoning and twist 1 line. Rev 1:1 proves 100% Jesus is not God--A revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him.---See 1 being, God, gave another being-Jesus a revelation. 2 beings 1 is God 1 is not. There is only 1 God.

You twisted one verse to deny the Son

 

[Keiw1]

Falls somewhat short of addressing the Scriptures presented.

Yes, the human nature of the God-man had a God; i.e., the Father, the same Father of the divine nature of Jesus.

Then why does he have to hand the kingdom back to his God and Father and subject himself-1Cor 15:24-28?
Dan 7:13-15)--YHWH was already king-1Chron 16:31) but notice Dan 7:13-15--One like a son of man= a created being) was given a kingship.

 

[Fred]

Then why does he have to hand the kingdom back to his God and Father and subject himself-1Cor 15:24-28?
Dan 7:13-15)--YHWH was already king-1Chron 16:31) but notice Dan 7:13-15--One like a son of man= a created being) was given a kingship.

Functional subjection does not necessitate ontological inferiority (Luke 2:51; Ephesians 5:24).

 

[Eleanor]

Yes Jesus is the FIRSTBORN of all creation= created direct-first and last, all other things created through him. That makes him-Gods master worker of Prov 8.

So Jesus created all things before he was conceived in Mary's womb.
How does that work?
Where was he all that time between creation and incarnation?

Jesus is the firstborn of the resurrection,
position of superiority in the church (as in OT firstborn), and
firstborn before all creation and produced creation.

 

[Eleanor]

Then why does he have to hand the kingdom back to his God and Father and subject himself-1Cor 15:24-28?
Dan 7:13-15)--YHWH was already king-1Chron 16:31) but notice Dan 7:13-15--One like a son of man= a created being) was given a kingship.

Because the NT shows the divine Son doing the will of and subject to the divine Father, and the Holy Spirit doing the will of and subject to both.

 

[ChristB4us]

No Jesus was never Jehovah.

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

So if that was not the Father seen and heard in the O.T. that appeared to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob, then who was it?

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

 

[Keiw1]

So Jesus created all things before he was conceived in Mary's womb.
How does that work?
Where was he all that time between creation and incarnation?

Jesus is the firstborn of the resurrection,
position of superiority in the church (as in OT firstborn), and
firstborn before all creation and produced creation.

God created all other things through his master worker( Prov 8:30)- All creation occurred at the beginning. The being God sent and named Jesus as a mortal is the FIRSTBORN of all creation.( Coll 1:15)--- Created direct-first and last( Prov 8:22-25= only begotten son.

 

[Keiw1]

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

So if that was not the Father seen and heard in the O.T. that appeared to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob, then who was it?

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

No man has ever seen God, so obviously it was one sent in Gods name to speak for God.