Prove the Practice of Worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son

[Keiw1]

Does that sound right to you? Since we are to prove all things by Jesus Christ, would it not be wise to consider what the words are actually inferring as if God is not God yet but He soon will be God? That is why I believe I am that I am is correct.

Exodus 3:14And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

Exodus 3rd Chapter NWT The NWT hardly makes sense.

Hebrew scholars know their language better than any trinitarian on earth. That is what you throw away to believe a false statement.

 

[Keiw1]

I am pointing out that the so called "correct translation" of your Bible version did not change all the truth that we say is the truth found in the KJV also, as it opposes what your church is teaching as being derived from that changed Bible version.

If you wish to address the errant translation that was supposedly done towards the Trinity doctrine, then consider all that the O.T. & the apostle John has written regarding the requirement for man to establish a testimony and thus a true witness and to judge any one by.

Deuteronomy 17:6 At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death. KJV

Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. KJV

As God commands men to do, will He not do, or is He a hypocrite? So when God said "Let us go down..." to the people at Babylon to confound their language, there had to be at least Two Witnesses to establish the testimony, the Father & the Son, but the Spirit also added as a Third Witness in compliance to the Father & the Son.

Genesis 11:5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. 6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. 9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

That is how God as the Triune God was able to judge the people at Babylon like Deuteronomy 17:6 says. God cannot do that as a One Person God.

Look again at creation; in how the Triune God establish a word in creation in how the Triune God created man in "their image" and after "their likeness". The request was made to be done in a plural sense and yet as the One God, man was created in His image.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

So now we go to the apostle John in regards to your assumption that you took at face value that was changed in Bibles to favor the Trinity doctrine.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. KJV

John 5th Chapter NWT <---- Still has John 5:31 written as the KJV has it written.

So if Jesus says that about Himself, how can God as the One Person God bears witness of Himself?

John 7:18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him. KJV

John 7th Chapter NWT <---- Still has John 7:18 written as the KJV has it written.

In according to His words above, for God as the One Person God that seeks to testify of Himself in seeking His own glory for Himself, by His own words that He had Jesus to say, unrighteousness is in Him, and so He cannot be a One Person God.

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. KJV

John 8th Chapter NWT <----- Still has John 8:17 written as the KJV has it written.

So for God to say anything that can be considered true, He has to have Another Witness with Him to make that testimony true. This happened at Jesus's water baptism when the Father spoke from heaven as the Holy Spirit alighting on the Son added His witness to the Father's word to make the Father's word true.

Matthew 5:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

That was the only way for the Father as the Triune God, made His testimony of the Son as God heard from Heaven to be true by the added Witness of the Holy Ghost. Do note verse 15 as this event fulfilled the prophesy in Isaiah 48:16-17 of the Lord God and His spirit sending God Our Redeemer, Jesus before His incarnation, that is speaking in that reference below thru Isaiah.

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

So when you read the changed version in the NWT, ask yourself how God's witness can be greater then men's witness in the earth in verse 9 IF you disregard how it is written in the KJV as some other modern bibles do as well as your Bible version?

1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. KJV

1 John 5th Chapter NWT <----- NWT has changed the message as other modern bibles do but leaves you wondering how God's witness of His Son is greater than the combined witness of men in the earth when they remove that verse as it is in the KJV.

At this site, an author by the name of David W. Daniels had uncovered the truth regarding 1 John 5:7 as it is written in the KJV as he also listed extrabiblical sources that proves that 1 John 5:7 as it is in the KJV was originally scripture as far back as 200 A.D.

IS 1 JOHN 5:7 NOT IN ANY GREEK MANUSCRIPT BEFORE THE 1600S? IF IT IS TRUE, WHY IS IT IN THE KJV?

If you scroll down that web page, you will see that list of extrabiblical sources that cited 1 John 5:7 as it was originally scripture as it is in the KJV.

May God bless you in discerning the truth in His words.

There is no capitol G God in the last line at John 1:1 in the Greek lexicons. Mistranslating it put a capitol G god in the last line. It has mislead billions.

 

[ChristB4us]

Hebrew scholars know their language better than any trinitarian on earth. That is what you throw away to believe a false statement.

The Jews in the NWT & the KJV understood what Jesus meant and tried to stone Him for it too in claiming His deity.

 

[Keiw1]

What did the apostle Paul warned believers about?

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. KJV
Galatians 1st Chapter NWT <---- NWT changed gospel with good news but you ought to see the same warning from Paul.

Would not Paul warn differently as led by the Holy Spirit if God foreknew there would be a necessity to raise a prophet like Joseph Smith?

And yet....you would heed the words of Joseph Smith's?

Biography of Joseph Smith <--- quote below from the link

"According to Smith's later accounts, while praying one night in 1823, he was visited by an angel named Moroni. Smith claimed this angel revealed the location of a buried book made of golden plates, as well as other artifacts including a breastplate and a set of interpreters composed of two seer stones set in a frame, which had been hidden in a hill near his home.[25] Smith said he attempted to remove the plates the next morning, but was unsuccessful because Moroni returned and prevented him.[26] He reported that during the next four years he made annual visits to the hill, but, until the fourth and final visit, each time he returned without the plates.[27] " end of quote from link.

I had been led astray by my Covenant United Presbyterian Church in making a commitment to make Jesus Lord of my life and kept failing it ever since because no matter how much the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak and so finally the Lord got through to me to rest in His New Covenant to me that He will do that good work in me and through me and all He had asked from me is to believe Him that He will help me to follow Him.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 6th Chapter NWT , ------ NWT managed to say the same thing. That means all the works of Mormonism is false when it is on you to do it.

Christ has set me free from that commitment to make Jesus Lord of my life in looking to myself to do the best I can in keeping that commitment to instead, rest in Him that I am saved simply by believing in Him and that He will help me to run that race by faith in Him to help me lay aside every weight & sin daily in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son. That is His job as my Good Shepherd & why He is my Friend. He can be too for you when you trust Jesus Christ to be your Good Shepherd & not your JW church to do that for you.

Yes, believe on the real Jesus. There are 4 different ones being taught on earth.

 

[Keiw1]

Abraham never saw God the Father but Abraham did see the Son as God before His incarnation and Jesus said so for why He was almost stoned but got away.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

John 8th Chapter NWT <---- Has the same message somewhat but having Jesus said "I have been" but the KJV's "I AM" is more testifying to His deity and therefore offensive for why they tried to stone Him. So the truth is kept in the KJV while the NWT translator changed it to meet his view.

That is why Jesus said scriptures testify of Him.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life......

46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

John 5th Chapter NWT <---- The NWT says the same thing for why you should doubt the one that redid the translation for the NWT.

Many scriptures testify of Jesus, the real Jesus, not the error ones taught.

 

[Keiw1]

The Jews in the NWT & the KJV understood what Jesus meant and tried to stone Him for it too in claiming His deity.

Hearts filled with hatred do not say truth. They said Jesus blasphemed--they lied.

 

[Fred]

There is no capitol G God in the last line at John 1:1 in the Greek lexicons.

Wrong.

You tried this already and it didn't work (see J. P. Louw and Eugene Nida)

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/the-apostles.92/#post-1777

The fact that you are still repeating demonstrates you are lying.

 

[ChristB4us]

There is no capitol G God in the last line at John 1:1 in the Greek lexicons. Mistranslating it put a capitol G god in the last line. It has mislead billions.

Oh come on. God is God. If there is no other God then how can that verse end with "a god"? It is to be capitalized as inferring the Triune God.

 

[Fred]

they lied.

Ironic that you should point this out.

 

[Keiw1]

Wrong.

You tried this already and it didn't work.

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/the-apostles.92/#post-1777

The fact that you are still repeating demonstrates you are lying.

Its proven fact.

 

[ChristB4us]

Hearts filled with hatred do not say truth. They said Jesus blasphemed--they lied.

Doesn't changed what was written by His disciple as led by the Holy Ghost of what Jesus has said to them that almost got Him stoned to death.

 

[Keiw1]

Oh come on. God is God. If there is no other God then how can that verse end with "a god"? It is to be capitalized as inferring the Triune God.

A god means has godlike qualities--This is why--God did all the powerful works through Jesus-Acts 2:22-1Cor 8:5-6

 

[Fred]

Its proven fact.

JW's are proven heretics.

 

[ChristB4us]

A god means has godlike qualities--This is why--God did all the powerful works through Jesus-Acts 2:22-1Cor 8:5-6

Jesus being the Word of God in having Godlike quality means He is God.

If Jehovah Witnesses wish to be witnesses of God, then they have to recognize that Jesus is God to be disciples of Jesus Christ as that Jehovah that appeared to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob and even Moses for why Jesus said that Moses had written about Him. Even your NWT testify to that. They did not changed all of the scripture that is running against their new doctrines and false teachings. May God help you to see that.

 

[Keiw1]

Jesus being the Word of God in having Godlike quality means He is God.

If Jehovah Witnesses wish to be witnesses of God, then they have to recognize that Jesus is God to be disciples of Jesus Christ as that Jehovah that appeared to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob and even Moses for why Jesus said that Moses had written about Him. Even your NWT testify to that. They did not changed all of the scripture that is running against their new doctrines and false teachings. May God help you to see that.

Jesus has a God like we do-John 20:17--All his true followers believe him over errors.

 

[ChristB4us]

Jesus has a God like we do-John 20:17--All his true followers believe him over errors.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

I acknowledge that but I also see Him testifying to God being His Father as He is His only begotten Son as God.

How can you rightly divide the word of truth when the NWT does not change all the truths in their NWT to fit their theology that it runs contrary to their theology?

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. KJV

The NWT also says the same thing. So whoever changed the NWT to meet their false teachings, did not change that verse which exposes their intentionally changing God's words on their part.

Otherwise, how can JW say that was the Father that had appeared to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and even Moses when the NWT of John 5:37 still testifies against that teaching & the changed messages in the NWT as being false?

 

[Keiw1]

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

I acknowledge that but I also see Him testifying to God being His Father as He is His only begotten Son as God.

How can you rightly divide the word of truth when the NWT does not change all the truths in their NWT to fit their theology that it runs contrary to their theology?

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. KJV

The NWT also says the same thing. So whoever changed the NWT to meet their false teachings, did not change that verse which exposes their intentionally changing God's words on their part.

Otherwise, how can JW say that was the Father that had appeared to Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and even Moses when the NWT of John 5:37 still testifies against that teaching & the changed messages in the NWT as being false?

See Jesus teaches the Father sent him-At John 17:3 Jesus teaches-the one who sent him = THE ONLY TRUE GOD--yet you outright refuse to believe Jesus over the errors in your translations. The errors which have caused a house divided, they will not stand. 1 Cor 1:10= a true mark of the one single religion that has Jesus-Unity of thought( all of Gods1 truth) no division. What cant the hundreds or thousands of trinity religions understand about-No division? Its pretty simple english=bible milk a 10 year old can understand.

 

[ChristB4us]

See Jesus teaches the Father sent him-At John 17:3 Jesus teaches-the one who sent him = THE ONLY TRUE GOD--yet you outright refuse to believe Jesus over the errors in your translations. The errors which have caused a house divided, they will not stand. 1 Cor 1:10= a true mark of the one single religion that has Jesus-Unity of thought( all of Gods1 truth) no division. What cant the hundreds or thousands of trinity religions understand about-No division? Its pretty simple english=bible milk a 10 year old can understand.

Do you read that in context or do you just refer to JW's teaching of verse(s) taken out of context?

John 17:1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

Look at the prayer request to the Father to do what? Glorify the Son. Why would the Father glorify the Son unless the Son is God also?

Remember this scripture?

Isaiah 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. 12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Now does your NWT has it that way or do you not see the connection yet that Jesus is that Jehovah that spoke in the O.T. & not the Father.

Now back to John 17th chapter

John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

What did the Father do but give the Son power over all flesh to give eternal life to as many as the Father gives the Son to save.

Think about that Isaiah 48:11For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.
And yet Jesus is praying that the Father will glorify the Son and also testifying how the Father gave Him power to save those the Father gave Him to save.
God is the Saviour and Jesus is the Saviour and therefore Jesus is God.
1 Timothy 2:3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Titus 2:10Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

Philippians 3:20For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Timothy 1:10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Now back to your verse taken out of context.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Can you see now that we might know the only true God the Father & Jesus Christ as that true God also?

 

[Keiw1]

Do you read that in context or do you just refer to JW's teaching of verse(s) taken out of context?

John 17:1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

Look at the prayer request to the Father to do what? Glorify the Son. Why would the Father glorify the Son unless the Son is God also?

Remember this scripture?

Isaiah 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. 12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Now does your NWT has it that way or do you not see the connection yet that Jesus is that Jehovah that spoke in the O.T. & not the Father.

Now back to John 17th chapter

John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

What did the Father do but give the Son power over all flesh to give eternal life to as many as the Father gives the Son to save.

Think about that Isaiah 48:11For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.
And yet Jesus is praying that the Father will glorify the Son and also testifying how the Father gave Him power to save those the Father gave Him to save.
God is the Saviour and Jesus is the Saviour and therefore Jesus is God.
1 Timothy 2:3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
Titus 2:10Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

Philippians 3:20For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

2 Timothy 1:10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Now back to your verse taken out of context.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Can you see now that we might know the only true God the Father & Jesus Christ as that true God also?

It does not say Jesus is that only true God. Jesus said, the one who sent him is=The Father. That is where satan has billions mislead through the centuries creating a non existent trinity using Jesus as bait. Like this-2Cor 11:12-15-he uses love, sharing whatever it takes to mislead.

 

[Fred]

It does not say Jesus is that only true God.

Jude 4
My reason is that certain men have slipped in among you who were long ago appointed to this judgment by the Scriptures; they are ungodly men who turn the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for brazen conduct and who prove false to our only owner and Lord, Jesus Christ. (NWT)

The same Greek word for "only" (monos) in John 17:3 is used in Jude 4 in reference to Jesus being the "only owner" of every believer.

However, the same Greek word for "owner" (despotēs) is used in reference to the Father in Acts 4:24.


Who is the only Master (despotēs) of every Christian?

If you affirm the Father is, then that would contradict Jude 4.
If you affirm the Lord Jesus is, then that would contradict Acts 4:24.
If you affirm both the Father and the Lord Jesus are, then say goodbye to your denial of Jesus being God.