Prove the Practice of Worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son

[ChristB4us]

No man has seen God. All of Gods servants go forth in his name. Since the bible does not contradict itself. There are alternate meanings to certain things. It wasn't actually Jehovah who appeared to Abraham, or to Moses.
Here is another example of an alternate meaning--All who believe will be saved. Yet at Matt 7:22-23( judgement scenario) these believe, but will not be saved.
So sometimes something said is a partial truth.

Exodus 6:3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. KJV

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. KJV

Read the NWT online for John 8th chapter;

John 8:12-59 NWT

May the Lord help you see the truth in His words as opposed to the false teachings of the JW.

We are called to be disciples of Jesus Christ, hence witnesses of Jesus Christ in seeking His glory & by Him, the glory of God the Father as led by the indwelling holy Spirit to do.

 

[ChristB4us]

All I will say, is that Theology is true when it's claims match the claims of the Bible. We don't need a Verbatim Verse for every truth of the Faith; the Doctrines are Sound...

God is Spirit, and we're to Worship him in Spirit and Truth...

There's no need to debate it...

What do you have against Praying to the Holy Spirit?

These apostate movements of the "spirit" can sometimes occur by invoking the Holy Spirit in prayer. Initially it can strike without warning but usually, such a phenomenon is sought after again and so they do so by invoking the Holy Spirit in prayer and so that confusion comes.

Cause & effect.

That is why Jesus is saying this to avoid that iniquity and from being left behind for.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

 

[ReverendRV]

Exodus 6:3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. KJV

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. KJV

Read the NWT online for John 8th chapter;

John 8:12-59 NWT

May the Lord help you see the truth in His words as opposed to the false teachings of the JW.

We are called to be disciples of Jesus Christ, hence witnesses of Jesus Christ in seeking His glory & by Him, the glory of God the Father as led by the indwelling holy Spirit to do.

Yeah; it's as apparent as can be...

When things are apparent and we still can't see them, it is going to take a little more Mud in the eyes to keep from only seeing Men who look like Trees...

 

[ChristB4us]

Yeah; it's as apparent as can be...

When things are apparent and we can't see them, it is going to take a little more Mud in the eyes to keep from seeing Men who look like Trees...

Right. Only God can cause the increase. Prayers are needed.

1 Corinthians 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[ChristB4us]

No man has seen God.

Abraham did and served the Lord a meal and He did eat.

Genesis 18:1-15 KJV

Compare with the NWT.

Genesis 18th Chapter NWT

Jacob did.

Genesis 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. 26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. KJV

You can find the same thing at your JW's site with your Bible version online.

Genesis 32nd Chapter NWT

Don't be afraid of the truth. May the Father help you to see His Son as God.

 

[makesends]

Not at the end of that verse 27 where the NIV switched out the "he" with "the Spirit" thus committing a grammatical error.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV
Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit(A) himself intercedes for us(B) through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts(C) knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes(D) for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. NIV

Actually you confirmed the grammatical error by believing that "he" in verse 27 that searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit is referring to the Holy Spirit rather than Jesus Christ as doing both of that. But only Jesus can help you see that.

How did you come to the conclusion that I thought the HE in verse 27 is the Spirit? It makes no sense to say that the Spirit knows the mind of the Spirit.

Only Jesus can help me see what? What in the world are you going on about?

 

[ChristB4us]

How did you come to the conclusion that I thought the HE in verse 27 is the Spirit? It makes no sense to say that the Spirit knows the mind of the Spirit.

I agree and I apologize but this was why I had thought you were saying that as below.

Maybe you can't see it, but so it is in the NIV, too. The Spirit is also called "he" in the NIV, in case you're confused.

Next question.

Only Jesus can help me see what? What in the world are you going on about?

I believe trusting Jesus Christ as our personal Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to understand His words as kept as meat in the KJV to discern good and evil by is how we prove everything by the scripture.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

 

[Fred]

What bible version are you using because none that I know of says He hears prayers, but makes intercessions instead.

In order to make intercession for us He has to know the hearts from which these prayers come from.

 

[Eleanor]

I would say because Jesus Christ is the only Mediator between God and men hence according to the will of God. That means the "he" in the KJV is the "he" that searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit and so that he in the conclusion of that verse cannot be "the Spirit".

You had identified Jesus as that "he" that searches our hearts for why it cannot conclude as the Spirit at the end of that verse.

This is why Jesus alone is at that throne of grace to answer prayers for when the father gives permission for the Son to answer that prayer.

Ro 8 is about life in the power of the Spirit: no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus who walk after the Spirit, life, adoption, justification, glory,
help of the Spirit in prayer (Ro 8:26-27).

That God hears Christ interceding for us in heaven means he also hears the Holy Spirit interceding for us within us when God searches our hearts, hearing and answering the desires of our heart which we don't have words to express, knowing what we need before we even ask (Mt 6:8).
The one who answers the prayer (God) is the one who searches hearts,
the one who hears the Son interceding for us (God) is the one who hears and answers the prayer.

This is why Jesus alone is at that throne of grace to answer prayers for when the father gives permission for the Son to answer that prayer.

Jesus is at the Throne of Grace to intercede as our great High Priest (Heb 7:23-25). It is God who answers the prayer.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

In context, Heb 4:12 is wrapping up Heb 3:7-4:11 warning the newly professing Christian Hebrews who were considering a return to Judaism not to apostasize.
Heb 4:11-12 give motives for not abandoning the gosprel rest of God in Jesus Christ:
1) not to follow the example of unbelief of their ancestors (Nu 14) presented in Heb 3:7-4:10,
2) the word of God, revealed by Jesus, the Word (who is God), and also given verbally in the Scriptures, with the power of a sword to cut out ignorance, rebellion and enmity against God, will be of great help to their faith and obedience.

Heb 4:12 is not presenting Christ as the "Word of God." Christ is the Word who is God.
Jesus never referred to himself as the Word of God, nor does the NT ever fall him the Word of God.
He is the Word who is God.

Doesn't say that. Still goes to that throne of grace of Whom we have to answer to and that is Jesus Christ.

The Throne of Grace refers to God the Father.

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Yes Jesus makes intercession for them before the Throne of Grace, while the indwelling Holy Spirit makes intercession for them from within themselves.

I do not see that in scripture but I do see that when we do not know what to pray for the Father already knows before we ask because Jesus searches our hearts & knows the mind of the Spirit.
Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

John 16:13 But when He, (A)the Spirit of truth, comes, He will (B)guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. NASB

The Holy Spirit cannot speak from Himself let alone utter any groanings from Himself.

The Holy Spirit is serving as the Spirit of Christ. He cannot use any words on His own for why the Son has to know the mind of the Spirit to make the Spirit's silent intercessions known to the Father.

That refers to the revelatory ministry of the Holy Spirit, not to the intercessory ministry.

The NIV does not have Romans 8:26-27 right. John 16:13 below proves it as that is the truth fund in all modern Bibles.

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth,(A) comes, he will guide you into all the truth.(B) He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

May God help you to see that truth. I know I cannot do it.

Because that is not the truth when Jn 1:3 refers to the Spirit's revelatory ministry, not to his intercessory ministry.

 

[Eleanor]

Repeat and clean up of above post.

I would say because Jesus Christ is the only Mediator between God and men hence according to the will of God. That means the "he" in the KJV is the "he" that searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit and so that he in the conclusion of that verse cannot be "the Spirit".

You had identified Jesus as that "he" that searches our hearts for why it cannot conclude as the Spirit at the end of that verse.

This is why Jesus alone is at that throne of grace to answer prayers for when the father gives permission for the Son to answer that prayer.

Ro 8 is about life in the power of the Spirit: no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus who walk after the Spirit, life, adoption, justification, glory,
help of the Spirit in prayer (Ro 8:26-27).

That God hears Christ interceding for us in heaven as our great High Priest (Heb 7:23-25) means he also hears the Holy Spirit interceding for us within us when God searches our hearts, hearing and answering the desires of our heart which we don't have words to express, knowing what we need before we even ask (Mt 6:8).
The one who answers the prayer (God) is the one who searches hearts,
the one who hears the Son interceding for us as (God) as our great High Priest is the one who hears and answers the prayer.

This is why Jesus alone is at that throne of grace to answer prayers for when the father gives permission for the Son to answer that prayer.

Jesus is at the Throne of Grace to intercede as our great High Priest (Heb 7:23-25). It is God who answers the prayer.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

In context, Heb 4:12 is wrapping up Heb 3:7-4:11 warning the newly professing Christian Hebrews who were considering a return to Judaism not to apostasize.
Heb 4:11-12 give motives for not abandoning the gospel salvation rest of God in Jesus Christ:
1) not to follow the example of unbelief of their ancestors (Nu 14) presented in Heb 3:7-4:10,
2) the word of God, revealed by Jesus, the Word (who is God), and also given verbally in the Scriptures, with the power of a sword to cut out ignorance, rebellion and enmity against God, will be of great help to their faith and obedience.

Heb 4:12 is not presenting Christ as the "Word of God." Christ is the Word who is God.
Jesus never referred to himself as the Word of God, nor does the NT ever call him the Word of God.
He is the Word who is God.

Doesn't say that. Still goes to that throne of grace of Whom we have to answer to and that is Jesus Christ.

The Throne of Grace refers to God the Father, where Jesus intercedes for us as our great High Priest (Heb 7:23-25).

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Yes Jesus makes intercession for them before the Throne of Grace, while the indwelling Holy Spirit makes intercession for them from within themselves.

I do not see that in scripture but I do see that when we do not know what to pray for the Father already knows before we ask because Jesus searches our hearts & knows the mind of the Spirit.
Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

John 16:13 But when He, (A)the Spirit of truth, comes, He will (B)guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. NASB

The Holy Spirit cannot speak from Himself let alone utter any groanings from Himself.

The Holy Spirit is serving as the Spirit of Christ. He cannot use any words on His own for why the Son has to know the mind of the Spirit to make the Spirit's silent intercessions known to the Father.
Click to expand...

That refers to the revelatory ministry of the Holy Spirit, not to the intercessory ministry.

The NIV does not have Romans 8:26-27 right. John 16:13 below proves it as that is the truth fund in all modern Bibles.

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth,(A) comes, he will guide you into all the truth.(B) He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

May God help you to see that truth. I know I cannot do it.

Because that is not the truth when Jn 1:3 refers to the Spirit's revelatory ministry, not to his intercessory ministry.

 

[makesends]

I agree and I apologize but this was why I had thought you were saying that as below.


Next question.

I believe trusting Jesus Christ as our personal Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to understand His words as kept as meat in the KJV to discern good and evil by is how we prove everything by the scripture.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

I hope you realize you could be wrong about the KJV.

 

[ChristB4us]

In order to make intercession for us He has to know the hearts from which these prayers come from.

Since the Son does it since, it is His job at that throne of grace by Whom we have to answer to for why it is His job.

But let us work it out in what Romans 8:26-27 is saying in the KJV.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Does Romans 8:26 connects to Ephesians 4:30?

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The question you have to ask yourself is why the Spirit's intercessions are done by not uttering His groanings at all, as if signifying the type of intercessions He would make? Maybe testifying to when we are sowing to the flesh which grieves the Holy Spirit? Would that not suggest the groanings He would have liked to utter stems from whenever we are grieving the Holy Spirit in us when we are not supposed to do that?

And since it is about not knowing what we are to pray as the cause for His intercessions, could it be when we are asking amiss in our prayers for why the Holy Spirit makes silent intercessions for us with groanings He cannot uttered?

James 4:1From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? 2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. 3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Anyway, that seems to be the kind of intercessions the Holy Spirit makes for us when we are asking amiss and thus in the flesh rather than in the Spirit.

Ephesians 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

 

[ChristB4us]

I hope you realize you could be wrong about the KJV.

When it comes to reproving false teachings, so far, I find it difficult to correct by modern Bibles but not by the KJV, but again, Jesus helped me to see that and so it will have to be the same for you.

When you find it difficult in correcting any one by the scripture per your modern bible or the modern bible they are using, check with the KJV. You mat be surprised to see the truth maintained in the KJV as meat for discerning good and evil that modern bibles fail to do in reproving.

 

[makesends]

When it comes to reproving false teachings, so far, I find it difficult to correct by modern Bibles but not by the KJV, but again, Jesus helped me to see that and so it will have to be the same for you.

When you find it difficult in correcting any one by the scripture per your modern bible or the modern bible they are using, check with the KJV. You mat be surprised to see the truth maintained in the KJV as meat for discerning good and evil that modern bibles fail to do in reproving.

What makes you think Jesus hasn't done the same for others with other versions. Sorry, but you seem very shortsighted. I wouldn't attribute that to Jesus.

 

[ChristB4us]

Ro 8 is about life in the power of the Spirit: no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus who walk after the Spirit, life, adoption, justification, glory,
help of the Spirit in prayer (Ro 8:26-27).

That God hears Christ interceding for us in heaven means he also hears the Holy Spirit interceding for us within us when God searches our hearts, hearing and answering the desires of our heart which we don't have words to express, knowing what we need before we even ask (Mt 6:8).
The one who answers the prayer (God) is the one who searches hearts,
the one who hears the Son interceding for us (God) is the one who hears and answers the prayer.

Jesus is at the Throne of Grace to intercede as our great High Priest (Heb 7:23-25). It is God who answers the prayer.

What you are applying scripture to mean is not aligning with the scripture below.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

When the Father agrees to any intercession presented by the Son, be it ours, the Spirit's or His own, the Son answers the prayer so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers.

in context, Heb 4:12 is wrapping up Heb 3:7-4:11 warning the newly professing Christian Hebrews who were considering a return to Judaism not to apostasize.
Heb 4:11-12 give motives for not abandoning the gosprel rest of God in Jesus Christ:
1) not to follow the example of unbelief of their ancestors (Nu 14) presented in Heb 3:7-4:10,
2) the word of God, revealed by Jesus, the Word (who is God), and also given verbally in the Scriptures, with the power of a sword to cut out ignorance, rebellion and enmity against God, will be of great help to their faith and obedience.

Heb 4:12 is not presenting Christ as the "Word of God." Christ is the Word who is God.
Jesus never referred to himself as the Word of God, nor does the NT ever fall him the Word of God.
He is the Word who is God.

It is debatable since He is the promised seed and the Word of God.

Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

The Throne of Grace refers to God the Father.

I do not see that when coming to that throne of grace is to find help from Jesus Christ as it is written.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

How do you take this reference below to mean?

Revelation 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Yes Jesus makes intercession for them before the Throne of Grace, while the indwelling Holy Spirit makes intercession for them from within themselves.

Which He cannot give to the Father because He has no words of His own to express those intercessions per John 16:13. That is why the Son knows the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's silent intercessions to the Father.

That refers to the revelatory ministry of the Holy Spirit, not to the intercessory ministry.

Actually it does when He cannot convey His own words or ideas or speak on His own authority and thereby emphasizing how He does talk by speaking what He hears like when Jesus was on earth, then the Holy Spirit spoken as the Spirit of the Father but now Christ has ascended, He speaks as the Spirit of Christ. At no time can the Holy Spirit speak for Himself as if being able to be the Spirit of the Spirit.

Because that is not the truth when Jn 1:3 refers to the Spirit's revelatory ministry, not to his intercessory ministry.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

It looks like you had cited the wrong reference or that was a typo of what you intended to post as a reference.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[ChristB4us]

What makes you think Jesus hasn't done the same for others with other versions. Sorry, but you seem very shortsighted. I wouldn't attribute that to Jesus.

Not everyone is asking Jesus to alert them to something amiss or wrong when they are not expecting the church, their pastor, or the modern Bible version they are using to mislead them.

I have been led astray by my infirmity in the flesh, the world, dark supernatural forces, and the church and it took Jesus Christ as my personal Good Shepherd & Friend to come to my rescue and deliver me out of them all and keeping me from them all too.

I believe any one can use any Bible versions to lead others to the salvation message in Christ Jesus & be saved.

But for the meat of His words to discern good and evil, only Jesus can help you guys see the importance of relying only on the KJV.

As for proving it, I can only hope when you try to correct anyone in these forums and find it difficult because of the modern version you or they are using, check with the KJV, You may find the reproof there wherein the modern Bibles has it changed to support false teachings. Granted, the truth can be found elsewhere in that modern bible but because of that changed message that supports false teachings, is why there is doubt in His words and false teachings goes unreproved. The KJV can expose that changed message for what it is and how that truth aligns with the truth elsewhere in the KJV of what one may not find within that same modern bible version.

 

[Keiw1]

Exodus 6:3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. KJV

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. KJV

Read the NWT online for John 8th chapter;

John 8:12-59 NWT

May the Lord help you see the truth in His words as opposed to the false teachings of the JW.

We are called to be disciples of Jesus Christ, hence witnesses of Jesus Christ in seeking His glory & by Him, the glory of God the Father as led by the indwelling holy Spirit to do.

The Hebrew scholars say there is no statement in the OT that translates-I am that i am. It translates, i will be what i will be. Only found in trinity translations to mislead by Jesus answering the pharisees honestly, that is all by saying i am before Abraham, saying he lived before Abraham that is all. Its your translations that are filled with misleading errors.
You believe the pharisees who were apostocised, hearts filled with hatred for Jesus, do you as well believe them when they said Jesus got his power from demons? Not in a single instance did they say a truth about Jesus. They twisted everything they could out of hate filled hearts. Jesus even told them their father was the devil. So when they said Jesus blasphemed-they lied.

 

[Keiw1]

Abraham did and served the Lord a meal and He did eat.

Genesis 18:1-15 KJV

Compare with the NWT.

Genesis 18th Chapter NWT

Jacob did.

Genesis 32:24 And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. 25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. 26 And he said, Let me go, for the day breaketh. And he said, I will not let thee go, except thou bless me. 27 And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. 29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there. 30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. KJV

You can find the same thing at your JW's site with your Bible version online.

Genesis 32nd Chapter NWT

Don't be afraid of the truth. May the Father help you to see His Son as God.

1John 4:12-- John 1:18--proves its you twisting the words about Abraham, Abraham was a Man, he never saw God.

 

[Eleanor]

What you are applying scripture to mean is not aligning with the scripture below.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

When the Father agrees to any intercession presented by the Son, be it ours, the Spirit's or His own, the Son answers the prayer so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers.

It is debatable since He is the promised seed and the Word of God.

The logos in Jn 1:1 does not mean utterance, it was the Greek word for God of the universe.
John is proclaiming that the carpenter from Nazareth is that God of the universe.
Jesus never referred to himself as the Word of God, nor is he ever called the Word of God in the NT.
Jesus is the Word who is God.

Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Jesus not being the word of God anywhere in the NT, but rather the word who is God, the seed here is the gospel, not Jesus Christ.

I do not see that when coming to that throne of grace is to find help from Jesus Christ as it is written.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

How do you take this reference below to mean?

Revelation 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Which He cannot give to the Father because He has no words of His own to express those intercessions per John 16:13.

Moot point, he doesn't need any words, he is the Father's own Spirit, and the Father knows his mind, just as Jesus does also, because he is also Jesus' own Spirit.
Jesus' knowing the Spirit's mind does not demonstrate that Jesus is the first "he" in Ro 8:27, since the Father does also.
And the second "he" is stated to be the Holy Spirit who intercedes for the saints.

That is why the Son knows the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's silent intercessions to the Father.

Actually it does when He cannot convey His own words or ideas or speak on His own authority and thereby emphasizing how He does talk by speaking what He hears like when Jesus was on earth, then the Holy Spirit spoken as the Spirit of the Father but now Christ has ascended, He speaks as the Spirit of Christ. At no time can the Holy Spirit speak for Himself as if being able to be the Spirit of the Spirit.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

It looks like you had cited the wrong reference or that was a typo of what you intended to post as a reference.

That should be Jn 13:16, which refers to the Spirit's revelatory ministry, where he speaks only what he is told to speak, it does not refer to his intercessory ministry.
The Holy Spirit does speak, he is not mute.

 

[ChristB4us]

The Hebrew scholars say there is no statement in the OT that translates-I am that i am. It translates, i will be what i will be.

Does that sound right to you? Since we are to prove all things by Jesus Christ, would it not be wise to consider what the words are actually inferring as if God is not God yet but He soon will be God? That is why I believe I am that I am is correct.

Exodus 3:14And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

Exodus 3rd Chapter NWT The NWT hardly makes sense.