Prove the Practice of Worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son

[Fred]

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

I believe when God the Father permits the Son to answer a certain prayer is why we are to give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name.

Which doesn't prove at all the Father doesn't answer the prayer.

It's shocking that you would think this is the case. Where are you getting these crazy ideas from?

 

[ChristB4us]

They are witnesses that Jesus as Son of man is the promised Messiah, Son of God. What has that to do with the subject of the intercession of the Holy Spirit? Here's the thing. All mediation is intercession but not all intersession is mediation.

I believe it is because of the blood of the Lamb at that throne of grace is how anyone can approach God the Father by

Of course! In His incarnation He had a human will. But this is what you said: "This does not speak against the Triune God but how they are each a separate person as a separate witness within the Godhead as it is also specified that it is the Father's will to be done and not the Son's will nor the will of the Holy Spirit." The two things you mention here---each separate person as a separate witness within the Godhead and not the Son's will nor the will of the Holy Spirit----have no connection with one another. You have, maybe only through the clumsy wording, but still have separated the Trinity into separate wills, not a unity of will. And witness of what? The scriptures you gave when I asked you what you meant by witness were speaking of the witness of the Father and the Holy Spirit bearing witness that Jesus, Son of man, was the promised Messiah, Son of God.

Make a distinction! Or do you not believe that Jesus was fully man and fully God, the two natures not mingling? You have to realize when Jesus says things, feels things, does things from which perspective it is coming from. Would you not desire that God remove the cup Jesus was about to drink if God was sending you to the cross? Even if you knew why and also knew that was why you came? Read John 17. Wouldn't your humanity cry out against it? Jesus was going to suffer and suffer beyond our imagination, even to the point of facing for us what we will never have to face as His children, the wrath of God, forsaken by God. And that is what is was to Jesus even though He knew what would happen after He endured that. Not forsaken by God but glorified by Him.

The point was in the Son's prayer when He had asked for that cup to pass from Him and yet He prayed let thy will be done and not His own. It is the Father's will to be done and as far as prayers TO the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit is serving the role as the Comforter, and not another Mediator, is why it is the Father's will that all prayers go through the Son, including the Holy Spirit's as the Son shall answer the prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Since whatever the holy Spirit does and say; He gives that credit & glory to the Son in order to glorify God the Father in the Son at the same time is why there are no verses for praying to the Holy Spirit, let alone giving thanks also to the Holy Spirit as those led by the Holy Spirit would do the same.

 

[ChristB4us]

Which doesn't prove at all the Father doesn't answer the prayer.

It's shocking that you would think this is the case. Where are you getting these crazy ideas from?

I did not say that the Father does not answer prayers when by agreeing or giving permission to the Son for that prayer request, He is backing the Son as an added Witness to establish the testimony i.e. the answer to the prayer request for why the Father is glorified in the Son for answers to prayers and thus why thanks are given to the Father in Jesus's name for answers to prayers also.

 

[ChristB4us]

Which once again doesn't prove your assertion.

Keept trying.

Ask the Father in Jesus's name to enable you to receive His wisdom on the matter in the event you are not seeing the evil of ignoring His word on how He wants us to approach Him by and how He wants us to honor Him by.

In case you don't, I shall send a prayer up for you anyway, brother Fred.

 

[Keiw1]

No, you get real.



Soon it will no longer be today (May 30th, 2023) so this will be old news. You've tried this ridiculous argument before, and it didn't work. I know you are programmed to repeat it because you have nothing else except a massive amount of contradictions.

The light is much brighter argument won't hold because the JW's have gone back and forth multiple times concerning what they have affirmed and what they have denied concerning the same topic.

And have truth in the end as the world will find out when the prophecy in Ezekial comes true for these last days--ALL will know--They will have to know i am YHWH(Jehovah)

 

[Keiw1]

Believers have been saved by calling on the Lord Jesus Christ for quite some time before Jehovah's Witnesses had shown up FYI.

Plus; Jesus is the God men had seen in the Old Testament as that Jehovah while at the same time Jesus said He has seen the Father..

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41 I receive not honour from men. 42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
Jesus said He had met Abraham before His incarnation.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Jesus is the Lord Jehovah that had met Isaac & Jacob & even Moses for why He said Moses had written of Him.

Exodus 6:3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.

Something to think about & pray about. Ask the Father to reveal His Son to you that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

That is what you are told by clergys using altered versions of Gods written word. Why do you think God put his name in all those spots? Because he wants it there correct? Thus all who have love and respect for him make sure his will is done by using bibles with his name put back. They did the opposite, they condemned the NWT for putting Gods name back even though they know the name belongs in those spots. Its proven fact.
Jesus is not Jehovah.

 

[makesends]

Can you spot a grammatical error in the NIV with His help?

How can "he" that is separate from us in searching our hearts and this same "he" separate from the Spirit to know the mind of the Spirit, be "the Spirit" in the conclusion of that verse 27 in the NIV? The KJV is testifying to Another Person and that Person is the Lord Jesus Christ.

Maybe you can't see it, but so it is in the NIV, too. The Spirit is also called "he" in the NIV, in case you're confused.

I believe their involvement in the occult influenced them into translating the Greek of Romans 8:26-27 as if the Holy Spirit can utter sounds from Himself in making His intercessions like the familiar spirits do in mediums & the "gods" thru their priests behind idols in Roman Idolatry.

The History of Tongues: Pagan Practices

Yes, it's pretty obvious that is what you take it to mean. I'm guessing because you have a bias, frankly, looking for reasons to KJV only.

 

[ChristB4us]

That is what you are told by clergys using altered versions of Gods written word. Why do you think God put his name in all those spots? Because he wants it there correct? Thus all who have love and respect for him make sure his will is done by using bibles with his name put back. They did the opposite, they condemned the NWT for putting Gods name back even though they know the name belongs in those spots. Its proven fact.
Jesus is not Jehovah.

How about this? You compare verses from the NWT on those references I had given you. How does your NWT has John 5:37 written as?

John 5th Chapter NWT <----- JW's site showing the NWT online.

Compare below & consider that the NWT testifies the same in John 5:37 as below and so how can the Father be the One that men had seen and heard in the O.T. ?

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41 I receive not honour from men. 42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? KJV

John 6:1-71 NWT Compare the NWT with the KJV below.

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
Jesus said He had met Abraham before His incarnation. KJV

John 8:12-59 NWT Compare the NWT with the KJV below.

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. KJV

Jesus is the Lord Jehovah that had appeared to Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob & even Moses for why He had said Moses had written of Him since no man had heard the voice nor seen the shape of the Father at any time.

Exodus 6:3And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them. KJV

 

[ChristB4us]

Maybe you can't see it, but so it is in the NIV, too. The Spirit is also called "he" in the NIV, in case you're confused.

The NIV switch out the "he" at the end of that verse to "the Spirit" whereas the KJV did not. When the NIV did that, they had committed a grammatical error because this "he" that is separate from us in searching our hearts is also separate from the Spirit in knowing the mind of the Spirit.

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit(A) himself intercedes for us(B) through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts(C) knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes(D) for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. NIV

See the grammatical error? The "he" that searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit cannot be "the Spirit".

Look at the KJV.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

Westcott & Hort involvement with the occult had influenced them into committing that grammatical error thinking that "he" was "the Spirit".

Yes, it's pretty obvious that is what you take it to mean. I'm guessing because you have a bias, frankly, looking for reasons to KJV only.

May I suggest that you look at other examples of what is considered a grammatical error? Then again, only the Lord can help you see the truth.

 

[ChristB4us]

Which doesn't prove at all the Father doesn't answer the prayer.

It's shocking that you would think this is the case. Where are you getting these crazy ideas from?

How do you apply your comment below with the two scripture references in between your two comments?

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. KJV

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. KJV

I bolden the portion in your quote below for how you seem to acknowledge Jesus is Lord and yet.... in this thread....

Hard to explain, but I'll try.

I enjoy the beauty of the language of the KJV. However, in some passages:
(1) I found it really tough for me to understand without having to look them up in other versions and/or to compare it with the Greek text.
(2) I prefer the readings in modern versions such as the ones I referred to above.

So I have saved an entire Bible of this approach that I read from. I don't always like the cross reference passages used in many (all?) Bibles so I just put in my own cross references. It's a slow process, but it is really enjoyable.

Here is a very small example:
Philippians 3:1-3
1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. (Zechariah 10:7; Philippians 4:4)
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the circumcision.
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
Isaiah 41:16
But you will rejoice in the Lord, You will glory in the Holy One of Israel.

Romans 10:8-14
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; (Deuteronomy 30:14)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth "Jesus is Lord", and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on Him shall not be disappointed. (Romans 9:33; 1 Peter 2:6; Isiaah 8:14; 28:16)
12 For there is no distinction between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord of all abounds in riches to all who call upon Him. (Romans 3:22; Acts 10:36)
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Joel 3:5 LXX; Joel 2:32; Romans 11:13; 16:3)
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? (Romans 10:11 - believe)

Psalm 27:8When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, Lord, will I seek.

Does the Holy Spirit have a face?

What does it mean to be a disciple of Jesus Christ? To serve the Son by testifying of the Son in seeking His glory and by Him, God the Father as led by the Spirit of Christ in us to do or..... do you see a disciple of Jesus Christ serving something else besides Jesus Christ is Lord in seeking His glory which is per the will of the Father in Whom we honor if we wish to truly honor the Father?

 

[Fred]

And have truth in the end as the world will find out when the prophecy in Ezekial comes true for these last days--ALL will know--They will have to know i am YHWH(Jehovah)

Since you believe the Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth then you can answer the question found in this post:

https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/to-whom-is-the-master-in-reference-to-ephesians-6-9-colossians-4-1.121/

 

[Eleanor]

The NIV switch out the "he" at the end of that verse to "the Spirit" whereas the KJV did not. When the NIV did that, they had committed a grammatical error because this "he" that is separate from us in searching our hearts is also separate from the Spirit in knowing the mind of the Spirit.

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit(A) himself intercedes for us(B) through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts(C) knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes(D) for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. NIV

See the grammatical error? The "he" that searches our hearts and knows the mind of the Spirit cannot be "the Spirit".

In Rev 2:23 it is Christ who searches hearts, as in Jn 1:48-49, 4:29, 16:30.

"He" is stated twice in Ro 8:27, neither one specified.
The first "he" is Christ who searches our hearts, and the second "he" is the Holy Spirit who intercedes for us.
That's not a grammatical error, that is the clarification of sound exegesis.

Look at the KJV.
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV
Westcott & Hort involvement with the occult had influenced them into committing that grammatical error thinking that "he" was "the Spirit".
May I suggest that you look at other examples of what is considered a grammatical error? Then again, only the Lord can help you see the truth.
Like how they had translated Romans 8:26-27 as if the Holy Spirit is uttering like a medium does when channeling spirits? I see that

And the link I had provided with the quotes cited references from which they had gotten those quotes. That counts.

Taken from an anti-KJVO cite I bet. Why?

15 Rules of Translation for the King James (KJV)

Let me show the evidence of how their involvement in the occult made them mistranslate Romans 8:26-27 to mean. at this link, starting with the KJV which cites the truth that not even His groanings can be uttered as opposing their translation that sounds are being uttered
Romans 8:26-27 KJV & NIV & NASB & NLV

I rest my case.

 

[Arial]

I believe it is because of the blood of the Lamb at that throne of grace is how anyone can approach God the Father by

That is the only way anyone can approach the throne of God. But that refers to the sacrifice of His body and the shedding of His blood of the covenant making propitiation. Only those in Him through faith can come before His throne. It is not saying that we only pray to Jesus.

Let me ask you a few questions.

When you are in prayer/communion with God, do you ever ask the Holy Spirit to help you, seeing as scripture says He does that very thing?
Do you ever thank the Holy Spirit for indwelling you?
Do you ever thank the Holy Spirit for HIs comfort ; ask the Holy Spirit to teach you, reveal the deep things of Christ, sanctify you in areas where you struggle with obedience? Do not all these things glorify Christ? Do you ever acknowledge the Holy Spirit at all? Prayer is more than asking for things. It is communion with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit for if even one of the three, or the work that they do, were missing or absent, no one would be saved.

 

[ChristB4us]

In Rev 2:23 it is Christ who searches hearts, as in Jn 1:48-49, 4:29, 16:30.

Thanks for adding scriptural reference to which I agree.

"He" is stated twice in Ro 8:27, neither one specified.

Yet the way the verse that is written is that this "he" is separate from us in searching our hearts and knows the mind of the spirit which also separates that "he" as being the Spirit for knowing the mind of the Spirit.

The first "he" is Christ who searches our hearts, and the second "he" is the Holy Spirit who intercedes for us.
That's not a grammatical error, that is the clarification of sound exegesis.

I disagree. Look at it again in the KJV. The One that searches our hearts is also the One that knows the mind of the Spirit.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

It did not say...

And he that searcheth the hearts and he that knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because they maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God

It did say that this same "he" that searches our hearts also knows the mind of the Spirit for the way it is written for why it cannot conclude in the verse as "the Spirit" maketh intercessions for the saints when in according to the will of God in the NIV, when there is only One Mediator.

If you identify Jesus as the "he" that searches pour hearts per Hebrews 4:12-16 then "he" is also the "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit.

Why infer "The Spirit knows the mind of the Spirit" if that "he" is not the same "he" of Jesus that searches our hearts also?

 

[Eleanor]

That is the only way anyone can approach the throne of God. But that refers to the sacrifice of His body and the shedding of His blood of the covenant making propitiation. Only those in Him through faith can come before His throne. It is not saying that we only pray to Jesus.

Let me ask you a few questions.

When you are in prayer/communion with God, do you ever ask the Holy Spirit to help you, seeing as scripture says He does that very thing?
Do you ever thank the Holy Spirit for indwelling you?
Do you ever thank the Holy Spirit for HIs comfort ; ask the Holy Spirit to teach you, reveal the deep things of Christ, sanctify you in areas where you struggle with obedience? Do not all these things glorify Christ? Do you ever acknowledge the Holy Spirit at all? Prayer is more than asking for things. It is communion with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit for if even one of the three, or the work that they do, were missing or absent, no one would be saved.

All was at the direction of the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit does their will.
It is the Father and the Son who are to be thanked for the work of their Spirit in you.

 

[ChristB4us]

That is the only way anyone can approach the throne of God. But that refers to the sacrifice of His body and the shedding of His blood of the covenant making propitiation. Only those in Him through faith can come before His throne. It is not saying that we only pray to Jesus.

Scripture is saying that Jesus is the only way to come to God the Father by John 14:6 and the only way to honor the Father by John 5:22-23 because when we stop honoring the Son, we are not honoring the Father. That is why the Holy Spirit is not written to be honored as well because the Holy Spirit seeks to glorify Christ and that has to include worship for why believers will not be led by the Spirit in any other way as scripture confirms

Let me ask you a few questions.

Okay.

When you are in prayer/communion with God, do you ever ask the Holy Spirit to help you, seeing as scripture says He does that very thing?

Scripture testifies to what the holy Spirit will do for us; not by praying to the Holy Spirit to do it.

Do you ever thank the Holy Spirit for indwelling you?

Since everything the Holy Spirit does is to give credit & glory to Jesus Christ per John 16:13-15, then I am led by scripture and the Holy Spirit in me to give thanks to Jesus and to the Father in Jesus's name. The Holy Spirit is not leading me to give thanks to Himself nor to honor Him in worship because that is not the will of God the Father for us to do and certainly not what He was sent to do either per John 15:26-27 & John 16:14.

Do you ever thank the Holy Spirit for HIs comfort ; ask the Holy Spirit to teach you, reveal the deep things of Christ, sanctify you in areas where you struggle with obedience?

The Holy Spirit in me along with scripture leads me to thank the Son and the Father in Jesus's name as the Holy Spirit defers all credit & glory to the Son and thereby by honoring the Son is the Father honored & glorified by.

Do not all these things glorify Christ? Do you ever acknowledge the Holy Spirit at all? Prayer is more than asking for things. It is communion with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit for if even one of the three, or the work that they do, were missing or absent, no one would be saved.

Does the holy Spirit play a role when God the Father & Jesus Christ is answering prayers as He does in ministry? Yes, but again, an indirect role.. because He serves as the Spirit of Christ for why He defers all credit & glory for whatever the Spirit says or do to Jesus Christ & so should we.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

When you look at all those apostate movements of the spirit like Azusa Street Revival, holy laughter movement, slain in the spirit, being drunk in the spirit, and even Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade where he would announced by placing his hand on their foreheads and cry out "WHOOO!!" , the coming of the Holy Spirit but on already saved believers to make them fall backwards for a miracle.... that moves the focus away from the Son to that spirit when assuming that was the Holy Spirit.

What does those movements glorify? The movement of the "Holy Spirit" by those signs and lying wonders.

What does the spirit of the antichrist do but to lead believers away from the Son as in "instead of Christ" which the indwelling Holy Spirit would never do.

Why would God the Father allow strong delusions to occur when the focus is on the Holy Spirit? Because that is NOT the way to come to God the Father by nor to honor Him by.

 

[ReverendRV]

Scripture is saying that Jesus is the only way to come to God the Father by John 14:6 and the only way to honor the Father by John 5:22-23 because when we stop honoring the Son, we are not honoring the Father. That is why the Holy Spirit is not written to be honored as well because the Holy Spirit seeks to glorify Christ and that has to include worship for why believers will not be led by the Spirit in any other way as scripture confirms

Okay.

Scripture testifies to what the holy Spirit will do for us; not by praying to the Holy Spirit to do it.

Since everything the Holy Spirit does is to give credit & glory to Jesus Christ per John 16:13-15, then I am led by scripture and the Holy Spirit in me to give thanks to Jesus and to the Father in Jesus's name. The Holy Spirit is not leading me to give thanks to Himself nor to honor Him in worship because that is not the will of God the Father for us to do and certainly not what He was sent to do either per John 15:26-27 & John 16:14.

The Holy Spirit in me along with scripture leads me to thank the Son and the Father in Jesus's name as the Holy Spirit defers all credit & glory to the Son and thereby by honoring the Son is the Father honored & glorified by.

Does the holy Spirit play a role when God the Father & Jesus Christ is answering prayers as He does in ministry? Yes, but again, an indirect role.. because He serves as the Spirit of Christ for why He defers all credit & glory for whatever the Spirit says or do to Jesus Christ & so should we.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

When you look at all those apostate movements of the spirit like Azusa Street Revival, holy laughter movement, slain in the spirit, being drunk in the spirit, and even Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade where he would announced by placing his hand on their foreheads and cry out "WHOOO!!" , the coming of the Holy Spirit but on already saved believers to make them fall backwards for a miracle.... that moves the focus away from the Son to that spirit when assuming that was the Holy Spirit.

What does those movements glorify? The movement of the "Holy Spirit" by those signs and lying wonders.

What does the spirit of the antichrist do but to lead believers away from the Son as in "instead of Christ" which the indwelling Holy Spirit would never do.

Why would God the Father allow strong delusions to occur when the focus is on the Holy Spirit? Because that is NOT the way to come to God the Father by nor to honor Him by.

Hey buddy; just letting you know that I don't read many lengthy Posts. I'll read them if they are the OP, or if I'm involved in the discussion. When I AM in the discussion, I usually only respond to one or two points at a time; to keep the discussion On Task...

But be true to yourself...

 

[Arial]

Scripture is saying that Jesus is the only way to come to God the Father by John 14:6 and the only way to honor the Father by John 5:22-23 because when we stop honoring the Son, we are not honoring the Father. That is why the Holy Spirit is not written to be honored as well because the Holy Spirit seeks to glorify Christ and that has to include worship for why believers will not be led by the Spirit in any other way as scripture confirms

Faulty math, faulty "logic," faulty interpretive methods.

Honoring the Holy Spirit as the third person of the Trinity does not equal not honoring Jesus. However, not honoring the Son and the Holy Spirit is not honoring God the Father. They are One in essence, co-equal. In your theology you truly do divide the Triune God into parts only one part of which is to be worshiped.

It is God ---Father, Son, and Holy Spirit who is to be worshiped and honored. Everything the Holy Spirit does glorifies the Father and the Son. Everything the Father does glorifies the Son. Everything the Son does glories the Father and the Son.

I do not know your relationship with your parents so this is a hypothetical said in a personal way to hopefully make it clear.

Do you love your mother and father equally, honor them equally? Does the fact that you honor your mother as a mother and honor your father just as equally but as a father, mean that when you are honoring your father you are not honoring your mother?

 

[Arial]

Scripture testifies to what the holy Spirit will do for us; not by praying to the Holy Spirit to do it.

You did not answer the question. Try again.

Since everything the Holy Spirit does is to give credit & glory to Jesus Christ per John 16:13-15, then I am led by scripture and the Holy Spirit in me to give thanks to Jesus and to the Father in Jesus's name. The Holy Spirit is not leading me to give thanks to Himself nor to honor Him in worship because that is not the will of God the Father for us to do and certainly not what He was sent to do either per John 15:26-27 & John 16:14.

So in other words---no, you never thank the Holy Spirit for anything. Who sent the Holy Spirit to you? Who gave you the new birth, applying the work of Jesus to you?

The Holy Spirit in me along with scripture leads me to thank the Son and the Father in Jesus's name as the Holy Spirit defers all credit & glory to the Son and thereby by honoring the Son is the Father honored & glorified by.

So you do not feel the need to ask anything of the Holy Spirit?

Does the holy Spirit play a role when God the Father & Jesus Christ is answering prayers as He does in ministry? Yes, but again, an indirect role.. because He serves as the Spirit of Christ for why He defers all credit & glory for whatever the Spirit says or do to Jesus Christ & so should we.

There is nothing indirect about any part of our salvation. And may I remind you that Jesus Himself never sought His own glory. It is all---even our redemption and our very life---for the glory of God, who is triune, One, not pieces that have no glory.

When you look at all those apostate movements of the spirit like Azusa Street Revival, holy laughter movement, slain in the spirit, being drunk in the spirit, and even Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade where he would announced by placing his hand on their foreheads and cry out "WHOOO!!" , the coming of the Holy Spirit but on already saved believers to make them fall backwards for a miracle.... that moves the focus away from the Son to that spirit when assuming that was the Holy Spirit.

That is a false teaching and has nothing to do with the conversation or the scriptures being used. If you could set that aside as a different conversation instead of what it is not you might get understanding from what you are being shown. Stop trying to have two different conversations at the same time and co-mingling them into one.

 

[Eleanor]

Thanks for adding scriptural reference to which I agree.

Yet the way the verse that is written is that this "he" is separate from us in searching our hearts and knows the mind of the spirit which also separates that "he" as being the Spirit for knowing the mind of the Spirit.

"Because" is the key which unlocks this verse, "he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit because the Spirit intercedes for"

We do not know what we ought to pray for (v. 26).
and because we do not know what we ought to pray for, the indwelling Holy Spirit speaks for (makes intercession from within) us (Ro 8:27).

Holy Spirit is the correct meaning of the second "he" in Ro 8:27.

I disagree. Look at it again in the KJV. The One that searches our hearts is also the One that knows the mind of the Spirit.

Okay, then that could be God who searches the heart, and who will hear and answer those prayers for which we lack words to express.
God likewise knows the mind of his own Spirit within us, who makes intercession for us, and which Spirit will also teach us what to pray for according to God's will.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

It did not say...

And he that searcheth the hearts and he that knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because they maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God

Okay, then it would be God who searches our heart and knows the mind of his own Spirit within us, who makes intercession for us, as well as teaching us what to pray for according to God's will.

It did say that this same "he" that searches our hearts also knows the mind of the Spirit for the way it is written for why it cannot conclude in the verse as "the Spirit" maketh intercessions for the saints when in according to the will of God in the NIV, when there is only One Mediator.

Mediator is not the same as Intercessor, although both roles can be given to the same person, as in the case of Moses, who was the Mediator of the Covenant from God to the people, as well as the Intercessor for the people to God.

The intercessor there is the Holy Spirit within us, making our prayer to God for us.

If you identify Jesus as the "he" that searches pour hearts per Hebrews 4:12-16 then "he" is also the "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit.

Why infer "The Spirit knows the mind of the Spirit" if that "he" is not the same "he" of Jesus that searches our hearts also?

The Holy Spirit intercedes/speaks for us with groanings too deep for words (v. 26), but God knows the mind of his own Spirit in us, and does not need words to know his every thought.

The NIV has it right. The Holy Spirit is the correct meaning of the second "he" in Ro 8:27.