Prove the Practice of Worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son

[ChristB4us]

What does any of that have to do with worshiping the Holy Spirit or not?

The Holy Spirit in you would never lead you to honor Himself in worship by testifying of Himself in seeking His own glory, but to testify of the Son in seeking the glory of the Son and by Him, the glory of God the Father.

 

[Josheb]

It is the likely event that this practice has crept into the Christian churches due to the modified Nicene creed of 381 A.D., I would ask anyone here to prove by the scripture "this practice" of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.......

Forgive me if I'm posting already covered terrain but were I making that apologetic I would probably start with Philippians 2's assertion everyone will "worship," or pay homage and fealty to Jesus and then include Romans 8:9 to show the Holy Spirit is being worshipped in any worship of either the Father or the Son because that Spirit is their Spirit (not one's or the other's).


Philippians 2:8-11
Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Note that is is not only humans that bow to Jesus. Everyone in heaven does so, as well. God has exalted Jesus as a consequence of Jesus not considering equality with God something to be grasped but, instead, taking on the form of a bondservant (which was decided before a single human or a member of the heavenly host was ever made, according to 1 Peter 1:20), and dying in obedience. God was pleased to crush Jesus, and as a consequence every knee bows to him and worships him as Lord to the glory of the LORD.

In a curious switch of position, the LORD then invites the Lord to sit on His throne (Rev 5:7, 21:5) while He goes about ridding creation of the rest of the Lord's enemies.

Psalm 110:1
The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

The LORD goes about finishing His work in service to the Lord . This would be idolatry were it not for the fact this is the blatant report of God's word.



Romans 8:9
However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

The appeal to Romans 8:9 is somewhat inferential, but the verse clearly states the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Christ is the same. The Spirit of God that dwells within the saint is the Spirit of Christ. Non-Trins (whether unitarian or modalist) will argue that simply means God indwelt Jesus or incarnated in the form or mode of Jesus but that does not change the fact that whenever either one of them, the Father or the Son, is worshiped, then it is a worship of the Spirit, as well. Neither can be worshiped without also worshiping the Spirit. When the whole of scripture is consulted, we see that the Spirit of God has thoughts, feelings, choices, and actions of its own (which is why the Trinity doctrine asserts the Spirit as a Person in his own standing. That Spirit is commanded by both the Father and the Son (Jesus sends the Spirit - John 14 and 15). This is a huge problem for any non-trin view. We have either an ordinary especially endowed human commanding God/God's Spirit or one modal part of God commanding another modal part in overt superiority (and thereby subordination). Yet this same Spirit knows the mind of God (implying a relationship external to that mind; otherwise, the text is unnecessarily redundant and illogically circular).


A case can, therefore, be made for the worship of the Spirit without appealing to any of the questionable verses thought to have been either added to scripture later or mistranslated by Trins.

 

[ChristB4us]

Forgive me if I'm posting already covered terrain but were I making that apologetic I would probably start with Philippians 2's assertion everyone will "worship," or pay homage and fealty to Jesus and then include Romans 8:9 to show the Holy Spirit is being worshipped in any worship of either the Father or the Son because that Spirit is their Spirit (not one's or the other's).

A case can, therefore, be made for the worship of the Spirit without appealing to any of the questionable verses thought to have been either added to scripture later or mistranslated by Trins.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Deuteronomy 4:2 can also apply to the commandment of His invitation in John 14:6 for how believers are to keep coming to God the Father BUT by His Son and for how the only way to honor the Father is by honoring the Son because the moment they stop honoring the Son, they are no longer honoring the Father. John 5:22–23 That is a standard of judgment raised on every believer.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

The Holy Spirit is God and those led by the Spirit of God will be doing what the Holy Spirit has been sent to dwell in us to do and that is to lead us to testify of the Son through us John 15:26–27 to glorify the Son John 16:13 and by doing so honor and glorify God the Father.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

That is why there are no scriptures teaching the practice of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son because of those specific commandment of His invitation for how we are to come to God the Father by and how we are to honor the Father by.

The problem is that the modified Nicene Creed of 381 A.D. and even the Athanasian Creed promoted the practice of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son and yet there is no basis for that emphasis for addressing all Three in worship or even the Holy Spirit solitary at times when such creeds has led to creating hymns toward that worship.

Jesus warned about false prophets coming in “broadening” the way for why many in these latter days are having a hard time finding it to be received by the Bridegroom. This is not just about false teachings of ecumenicalism of other religions with the church as if there are other ways to be saved that the RCC and even the late Billy Graham were compromising with, but because of the emphasis of striving to enter through that straight gate to avoid being left behind as Jesus said in the latter days, only a few will find it as many will not see the necessity to narrow the way back to the Son in coming to God the Father nor the emphasis on honoring the Father by only honoring the Son.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Dare we ignore how the way was broaden by those creeds?

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

“Verily, verily” reads to me an emphasis on keeping our eyes on the Son in worship if we wish to worship God the Father in Heaven as there is no other way to honor the Father by.

~~~~~ The consequence is too great to ignore. Look at how Jesus denied those that believed in Him because they did not take the only way that was provided for them to come to God by.

Read verses 25 & 27 below for how He had chastened them for the direction they took with coming to the Father by the use of the words “whence ye are”.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Consider how Protestants believe Christ’s Presence is in the bread and the wine and that they are coming into His Presence when holding “holy communion”. How is that NOT presenting another way to come to God the Father by and yet 1 Corinthians 10:14–23 has Paul testifying that the Protestants and the Catholics are committing idolatry.

Look at how those apostate movement of the “spirit” like the holy laughter movement broke out across the denomination when their focus is on the Holy Spirit or the Trinity in worship? When the phenomenon happens, is it not telling how they address the Holy Spirit in worship and prayer for Him to come again with that sign and that phenomenon happens again?

That is what Jesus is warning believers about to watch and not suffer a thief to break through, because by broadening the way in the worship place, churches are suffering the spirts of the antichrist to come and steal the worship for themselves.

And yet antichrist as it is used in scripture, means instead of Christ and so may we all see why there are no scriptures testifying to the Holy Spirit in worship or in prayer because that would be the same as “instead of Christ”.

Like taking the direction for how we come to God the Father “instead of Christ”.

Like how we honor the Father ‘instead of Christ” which the Holy Spirit in us would never lead us to do but the spirits of the antichrist would.

That is why I am emphasizing John 14:6 & John 5:22–23 because those creeds are promoting a practice where we are to come to God the Father by another way as by the Holy Spirit or the broad way of the Trinity which still comes across as “instead of Christ”.

Dare we allow the creeds to continue to influence church traditions not found in the Bible when we have His words specifying how to come to God the Father by and how to honor the Father by and that is only by His Son?

 

[Josheb]

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Deuteronomy 4:2 can also apply to the commandment of His invitation in John 14:6 for how believers are to keep coming to God the Father BUT by His Son and for how the only way to honor the Father is by honoring the Son because the moment they stop honoring the Son, they are no longer honoring the Father. John 5:22–23 That is a standard of judgment raised on every believer.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

The Holy Spirit is God and those led by the Spirit of God will be doing what the Holy Spirit has been sent to dwell in us to do and that is to lead us to testify of the Son through us John 15:26–27 to glorify the Son John 16:13 and by doing so honor and glorify God the Father.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

John 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

That is why there are no scriptures teaching the practice of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son because of those specific commandment of His invitation for how we are to come to God the Father by and how we are to honor the Father by.

The problem is that the modified Nicene Creed of 381 A.D. and even the Athanasian Creed promoted the practice of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son and yet there is no basis for that emphasis for addressing all Three in worship or even the Holy Spirit solitary at times when such creeds has led to creating hymns toward that worship.

Jesus warned about false prophets coming in “broadening” the way for why many in these latter days are having a hard time finding it to be received by the Bridegroom. This is not just about false teachings of ecumenicalism of other religions with the church as if there are other ways to be saved that the RCC and even the late Billy Graham were compromising with, but because of the emphasis of striving to enter through that straight gate to avoid being left behind as Jesus said in the latter days, only a few will find it as many will not see the necessity to narrow the way back to the Son in coming to God the Father nor the emphasis on honoring the Father by only honoring the Son.

Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Dare we ignore how the way was broaden by those creeds?

Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

“Verily, verily” reads to me an emphasis on keeping our eyes on the Son in worship if we wish to worship God the Father in Heaven as there is no other way to honor the Father by.

~~~~~ The consequence is too great to ignore. Look at how Jesus denied those that believed in Him because they did not take the only way that was provided for them to come to God by.

Read verses 25 & 27 below for how He had chastened them for the direction they took with coming to the Father by the use of the words “whence ye are”.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.

27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.

30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Consider how Protestants believe Christ’s Presence is in the bread and the wine and that they are coming into His Presence when holding “holy communion”. How is that NOT presenting another way to come to God the Father by and yet 1 Corinthians 10:14–23 has Paul testifying that the Protestants and the Catholics are committing idolatry.

Look at how those apostate movement of the “spirit” like the holy laughter movement broke out across the denomination when their focus is on the Holy Spirit or the Trinity in worship? When the phenomenon happens, is it not telling how they address the Holy Spirit in worship and prayer for Him to come again with that sign and that phenomenon happens again?

That is what Jesus is warning believers about to watch and not suffer a thief to break through, because by broadening the way in the worship place, churches are suffering the spirts of the antichrist to come and steal the worship for themselves.

And yet antichrist as it is used in scripture, means instead of Christ and so may we all see why there are no scriptures testifying to the Holy Spirit in worship or in prayer because that would be the same as “instead of Christ”.

Like taking the direction for how we come to God the Father “instead of Christ”.

Like how we honor the Father ‘instead of Christ” which the Holy Spirit in us would never lead us to do but the spirits of the antichrist would.

That is why I am emphasizing John 14:6 & John 5:22–23 because those creeds are promoting a practice where we are to come to God the Father by another way as by the Holy Spirit or the broad way of the Trinity which still comes across as “instead of Christ”.

Wall of text

Start over. Make one or two points (or one or two questions) and have a conversation that moves forward incrementally.

Dare we allow the creeds to continue to influence church traditions not found in the Bible....

You're off topic in your own op.

We have traded posts many times. I am known to be exacting when the occasion or need occurs. Do not give me reason to point out a flaw. If I am not given a reason, then I will not have anything to point out, and you won't get frustrated and make things worse. This op is about the practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit, not creeds, traditions, influences, or any of that other red herring garbage in Post 63. If a discussion of creedal influence and tradition was intended, then that should have been clarified in the op. The title of the thread states, "Prove the practice of worshiping the Holy Spirit with the Father and the Son," and that is exactly what Post 62 does.


I provided a thoroughly scripture-based case for how and why the Spirt might be worshiped in obedience to God's word, and I did so without appealing to a single creed.


That post can (and should) be engaged for what it actually states not for things it never states. You do not have to agree with me. I will not take up the dross of Post 63 because it snubs Post 62 and disrespects us both.

 

[ChristB4us]

I provided a thoroughly scripture-based case for how and why the Spirt might be worshiped in obedience to God's word, and I did so without appealing to a single creed.

But you did not do that in post #62.

You had mentioned Romans 8:9

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Then you had referenced this below;

Philippians 2:8-11
Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father
Then this;
Psalm 110:1
The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

And then back to Romans 8:9 which none of them testify to the practice for worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

Romans 8:9 is just a testimony that every saved believer has the Spirt of Christ in them, and those that do not, are unbelievers in truth.

Philippians 2:5-11 in context is about that mind of Christ we are to have in worship which is to the glory of God the Father with nary a mention about the Holy Spirit, let alone worshipping the Holy Spirit or the Trinity.

Psalm 110:1 is about the Father speaking to Jesus.

None of those scriptures testifies to believers worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son and you will not find any because those led by the Spirit of God will come to the Father by the only way provided and that is His Son and they will be led by the Spirit of God to honor the Son by testifying of the Son in seeking His glory in order to honor & glorify God the Father in worship.

 

[Josheb]

But you did not do that [reference creeds] in post #62.

You had mentioned Romans 8:9

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Then you had referenced this below;

Philippians 2:8-11
Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father
Then this;
Psalm 110:1
The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

And then back to Romans 8:9 which none of them testify to the practice for worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

Sure, they do; and I explained how.

Romans 8:9 is just a testimony that every saved believer has the Spirt of Christ in them, and those that do not, are unbelievers in truth.

Philippians 2:5-11 in context is about that mind of Christ we are to have in worship which is to the glory of God the Father with nary a mention about the Holy Spirit, let alone worshipping the Holy Spirit or the Trinity.

Psalm 110:1 is about the Father speaking to Jesus.

Those are called scriptures, not creeds.

None of those scriptures testifies to believers worshipping the Holy Spirit.....

Sure, they do, and I explained why.

• Romans 8 proves the Spirit of God is also the Spirit of Jesus.
• Philippians 2 proves Jesus is worshiped.
• Philippians 2 and Psalm 110 prove God, the LORD, exalts Jesus, the Lord.

Therefore, since those two, the LORD and the Lord, share the exact same Spirit..... anytime either of those two are worshiped their Spirit is also being worshiped, and inescapably so. The practice of worshiping the Spirit with the Father and the Son is proved, and it is proved without a single appeal to any creed. That is what this op requests; that is what was posted.



Are you going to address what I actually posted or are we going to go another round with you ignoring what was posted?

 

[Mr GLee]

But you did not do that in post #62.

You had mentioned Romans 8:9

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Then you had referenced this below;

Philippians 2:8-11
Being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. For this reason also, God highly exalted him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father
Then this;
Psalm 110:1
The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet."

And then back to Romans 8:9 which none of them testify to the practice for worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

Romans 8:9 is just a testimony that every saved believer has the Spirt of Christ in them, and those that do not, are unbelievers in truth.

Philippians 2:5-11 in context is about that mind of Christ we are to have in worship which is to the glory of God the Father with nary a mention about the Holy Spirit, let alone worshipping the Holy Spirit or the Trinity.

Psalm 110:1 is about the Father speaking to Jesus.

None of those scriptures testifies to believers worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son and you will not find any because those led by the Spirit of God will come to the Father by the only way provided and that is His Son and they will be led by the Spirit of God to honor the Son by testifying of the Son in seeking His glory in order to honor & glorify God the Father in worship.

The dynamic dual.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Deny the Father not seen. . by denying the Son of man seen used to demonstrate the powerful unseen Father Believers walk or understand the by faith after the unseen (Father) not by sight after temporal Son of man Jesus.

The 20/20 prescription must be applied if we are to rightly divide the parables The unseen revealed by the temporal things seen .

The let there be behold it is God alone good The loving law of faith . In that way parables are designed to teach us how to walk by faith the unseen eternal . Hiding the gospel understanding from unredeemed dying mankind . without he spoke not.

2 Corinthians 4:18 King James Version18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[ChristB4us]

Sure, they do; and I explained how.

Those are called scriptures, not creeds.

Sure, they do, and I explained why.

• Romans 8 proves the Spirit of God is also the Spirit of Jesus.
• Philippians 2 proves Jesus is worshiped.
• Philippians 2 and Psalm 110 prove God, the LORD, exalts Jesus, the Lord.

Therefore, since those two, the LORD and the Lord, share the exact same Spirit..... anytime either of those two are worshiped their Spirit is also being worshiped, and inescapably so. The practice of worshiping the Spirit with the Father and the Son is proved, and it is proved without a single appeal to any creed. That is what this op requests; that is what was posted.


Are you going to address what I actually posted or are we going to go another round with you ignoring what was posted?

Proving the Triune God does not invalidate what Jesus plainly said for how we are to come to God the Father by nor how we are to honor the Father by and that is by the only way provided, His Son.

The dispute is worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son as if the Father is honored in that way and He is not.

The dispute also includes the worship of the Trinity as if God the Father is honored in worship in that broad way and He is not.

The Holy Spirit is God and there are 3 Witnesses within the One God but that does not mean we ignore His words for how the Father wants us to come to Him by nor how He wants us to only honor Him by and that is only by His Son in worship.

The creeds have added to His words is why many believers and churches are not heeding His words for how it is written.

You & I agree there are Three Witnesses within the One God but the problem here is how believers are ignoring His words for how he specifically stated to come to God the Father by John 14:6 & by how to honor the Father by John 5:22-23.

This article is from Dr. Roger Barrier who went to be with the Lord on Friday, February 16th, 2024. He was a faithful servant of Christ with a lifetime worth of ministry and mentorship. Dr. Barrier held degrees from Baylor University, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, and Golden Gate Seminary in Greek, religion, theology, and pastoral care.

He is answering a concern shared by I assume a fellow Baptist as if testifying to this phenomenon as happening in a Baptist church.

What Is 'Holy Laughter' and Is it Biblical?

Now this is what has been reported and so I am sure it is happening more often then not for why I am warning Christians to beware. The only way to avoid that from happening is to keep our eyes on the Son and thus providing no opportunities for the spirits of the antichrist to come in when our eyes are on the holy Spirit or the blessed Trinity "instead of Christ".

 

[Josheb]

Proving......

No, it doesn't That's all in your imagination.

The dispute is worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son as if the Father is honored in that way and He is not.

The Father cannot not be worshiped if His Spirit is worshiped.

 

[ChristB4us]

No, it doesn't That's all in your imagination.

The Father cannot not be worshiped if His Spirit is worshiped.

700 Club or CBN is reporting this phenomenon as happening every denomination all over the world at this link to that article HOLY LAUGHTER: Bringing Revival To The Church? | CBN

So what is the common denominator? When churches and believers take their eyes off of the Son in worship, prayer, or fellowship, in coming to God the Father, they are committing the offense of what antichrist means which is “instead of Christ”. When taking our eyes off of the Son to the Holy Spirit or the “blessed Trinity” in worship for why God is allowing that strong delusion to occur, is it any wonder why you cannot convince believers & churches that holy laughter movement was not the Holy Spirit when they were honoring Him in worship?

Now this is what has been reported and so I am sure it is happening more often then not for why I am warning Christians to beware. The only way to avoid that from happening is to keep our eyes on the Son and thus providing no opportunities for the spirits of the antichrist to come in when our eyes are on the holy Spirit or the blessed Trinity "instead of Christ".

It is about discerning the cause & effect when broadening the way in the worship place Matthew 7:13–27 by including the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son and thereby the “Trinity” which offends the Father when the only way to honor Him is by honoring only the Son John 5:22-23 which is why God is permitting that strong delusion of that holy laughter movement to occur and so the solution is to narrow the way back to the straight gate to avoid being left behind Luke 13:24–30

 

[Mr GLee]

Proving the Triune God does not invalidate what Jesus plainly said for how we are to come to God the Father by nor how we are to honor the Father by and that is by the only way provided, His Son.

God who is one .His Holy Spirit reckoned by the Father not seen the spiritual seed Christ worked in Jesu the Son of man to both wil and do the will of the father .

Two is the one witness Christ our Father has spoke The temporal seen the Son of man jesus demonstrating the power of the faithful unseen Lord of lord King of kings Holy father of fathers

.Call no man on earth Holy father (three is a crowd)

The dynamic dual .

Its seems the father of lies would try and make it three .Again in that way three is a crowd .( two walking as one)God is not a dying Jewish man as us . He is not a racist . Racism hatred towards. God like Jonah racism is sin. Hatred can lead to death. Gods love leads to new hidden manna life .The breaking of the fast honey .

David said when I awake you are still there . rise up get out of bed the gates are open

The goal of the evil one. . . not subject to understanding the gospel .Murder all flesh.. destroy human relationships. today many avenues with the new alphabet LGBTQ ++++sexless society. (Gnosticism reincarnation) Just identify you are something you are not powered . from the identity theft Satan the king of lying sings to wonder wonder wonder after as if prophecy. . the extreme left (out of the minds )

Two or three (a family) They when they gather together under the hearing of his living word (hearing of faith) he is there yoked with them .

Three to represent the end of a matter. Three the smallest denomination .

Ecclesiastes 4:12 And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.

In the end of the matter . . . three is threefold family of God the house hold of faith (unseen things of Christ) who works in believers making the daily burdens lighter

 

[Josheb]

700 Club or CBN is reporting......

Non sequitur

Neither this op nor my posts are about what CNN reports or what Denominations do or don't do. This op asks for proof the HS can be worshipped and a case for that was provided. You're now trying to change the subject.


Bye

 

[ChristB4us]

Non sequitur

Not really. Showing how the apostate holy laughter movement is breaking across the denominational divide and all over the world begs the discernment of what all churches share; the broad way in coming to God the Father by. Cause and effect.

Neither this op nor my posts are about what CNN reports or what Denominations do or don't do. This op asks for proof the HS can be worshipped and a case for that was provided. You're now trying to change the subject.

Why would God allow strong delusions to occur like the holy laughter movement for honoring the Holy Spirit in worship?

So it is actually you avoiding the white elephant in the room.

I still have not seen you provide anywhere from the Book of Acts nor from any epistles teaching the practice of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

Bye

Do you criticize Catholics and other Christians for ignoring the reproofs in the scripture?

Explain this passage in scripture.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

#1 What mind of Christ are we to have in worship?

#2 Who are we suppose to testify about in worship?

#3 Whose name is above every other name that is to the glory of God the Father?

#4 Does the "wherefore...." in verse 12 applies this obedience to that mind of Christ we are to have in worship?

$5 And that other act of obedience we are to have in verses 12 & 13 is work out our salvation with fear & trembling in RESPECT to the God that is working in us and so Who is that God that is working in us?

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:.........11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

May God cause the increase in helping you and other believers to narrow the way back to the straight gate before the Bridegroom comes.

Psalm 27:7 Hear, O Lord, when I cry with my voice: have mercy also upon me, and answer me. 8 When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, Lord, will I seek. 9 Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger: thou hast been my help; leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation.

 

[ChristB4us]

God who is one .His Holy Spirit reckoned by the Father not seen the spiritual seed Christ worked in Jesu the Son of man to both wil and do the will of the father .

Two is the one witness Christ our Father has spoke The temporal seen the Son of man jesus demonstrating the power of the faithful unseen Lord of lord King of kings Holy father of fathers

.Call no man on earth Holy father (three is a crowd)

The dynamic dual .

Its seems the father of lies would try and make it three .Again in that way three is a crowd .( two walking as one)God is not a dying Jewish man as us . He is not a racist . Racism hatred towards. God like Jonah racism is sin. Hatred can lead to death. Gods love leads to new hidden manna life .The breaking of the fast honey .

David said when I awake you are still there . rise up get out of bed the gates are open

The goal of the evil one. . . not subject to understanding the gospel .Murder all flesh.. destroy human relationships. today many avenues with the new alphabet LGBTQ ++++sexless society. (Gnosticism reincarnation) Just identify you are something you are not powered . from the identity theft Satan the king of lying sings to wonder wonder wonder after as if prophecy. . the extreme left (out of the minds )

Two or three (a family) They when they gather together under the hearing of his living word (hearing of faith) he is there yoked with them .

Three to represent the end of a matter. Three the smallest denomination .

Ecclesiastes 4:12 And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.

In the end of the matter . . . three is threefold family of God the house hold of faith (unseen things of Christ) who works in believers making the daily burdens lighter

The irony is that the will of the Father is for saved believers to be submissive to the word of God as Christ is the Head of the Church and to be led by the Spirit of Christ to honor the Son by testifying of the Son in seeking the glory of the Son, and thereby honor & glorify God the Father.

All Three Witnesses within the One God is in agreement for how we are to come to the Father by & to honor the Father by & that is by His Son.

 

[Mr GLee]

The irony is that the will of the Father is for saved believers to be submissive to the word of God as Christ is the Head of the Church and to be led by the Spirit of Christ to honor the Son by testifying of the Son in seeking the glory of the Son, and thereby honor & glorify God the Father.

All Three Witnesses within the One God is in agreement for how we are to come to the Father by & to honor the Father by & that is by His Son.

It would seen you are dividing Christ the Holy Spirit of the Father. The one Spirit that worked in the Son of man .Jesus .

How you end up with three and not two as a dynamic dual .It remains a mystery ???

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Catholiscim that clearly makes the loving commandment to call no man on earth Holy Father (extended.) Holy See ,Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church etc. making it to no efect so they can rather seek after the oral traditons

They make it as if three .

One God as Father the eternal one not seen. . they must avoid the unseen all costs.

 

[Josheb]

Not really.

Yes. Really

Showing how the apostate holy laughter movement is breaking across the denominational divide and all over the world begs the discernment of what all churches share; the broad way in coming to God the Father by. Cause and effect.

I understand, and I agree. I understand the op's point about "holy laughter," and supplications to Mary. The former is a godless absurdity and the latter unnecessary given our inherent clerical disposition. That, however, has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my reply to this op. I reiterate: A request was made for a case by which scripture could/would/should be understood to prove the practice of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the father and the Son and I provided such a case. I did so with scripture, and I did not appeal to a single creed or any other extra-biblical source.

We could, perhaps, use that case as a measure of common or eccentric teachings and practices in modernity, like the so called "holy laughter" (which is an oxymoron), because that case is made with scripture read very plainly. Unblessedly, that conversation is not going to happen as long as Post 62 and its veracity is ignored. I will, therefore, suggest that you consider, "Yes, Josh, the case presented in Post 62 is very good, so let us now apply it to the practice of holy laughter and the scripture-twisting teaching that drives that and other misguided practices." and thereby prove you're actually, genuinely interested in a proof proving the HS can be worshipped with the Father and the Son. Then we can take on the nonsense of "holy laughter." Post 70 is indeed non sequitur to my op-reply. It may not be irrelevant to the op but it is non sequitur to Post 62. Posts 40 and 62 simply establish the case requested and set a foundation for discussing the rest of the op (and its commentary on holy laughter, etc.). Posts 64, 66, 69, and 72 are simply appeals to you to address Post 62. Fixing (or fixating) on disputing holy laughter (which I will gladly enjoin) but ignoring any foundation by which that disputation can happen with other posters is disingenuous at best.

So, I ask one more time: Would you please go back to Post 62 and speak to the veracity of that argument, the argument that is summarized in three bullet points at the end of Post 66.

Why would God allow strong delusions to occur like the holy laughter movement for honoring the Holy Spirit in worship?

Great question. One I will gladly attempt an answer once I read some evidence what others post matters because, so far, it looks like the request for proof was made disingenuously; there is no authentic or sincere interest in having any such proof presented even though that is exactly what was requested.

So it is actually you avoiding the white elephant in the room.

The posts prove otherwise.

The request for proof has been posted.... and ignored. If ignoring any case presented is the agenda here, then that's okay but the facts in evidence prove a proof can be made and the facts in evidence also prove a disingenuous lack of interest in what was requested. Just for a moment, read through the thread and consider what it reads like from others' perspective. The op asks for something and then when that request is met it gets ignored. Logically speaking, there can be no criticism of anything, including holy laughter, until a means of critiquing that thing is first established. That is foundational. Whatever the case by which critique is made looks like, it should be made from scripture - a sound exegesis. That was provided and the response is...

Dare we allow the creeds to continue to influence church traditions not found in the Bible when we have His words specifying how to come to God the Father by and how to honor the Father by and that is only by His Son?

?????

No creeds were presented in Post 62! The answer to your question is "Maybe, because wherever creeds correctly present scripture they may be consider valid and veracious," but that has nothing to do with Post 62. Post 62 is scripture, not creed.

Non sequitur

Not really.

Yes, really.

The proof requested has been provided and ignored. A proof by which holy laughter can be measured has been provided...... and ignored. Repeatedly.

 

[ChristB4us]

It would seen you are dividing Christ the Holy Spirit of the Father. The one Spirit that worked in the Son of man .Jesus .

Jesus Christ as the Son of Man and Son of God died alone on the cross as He had experienced that separation from God the Father when He took our sins upon Himself.

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

We are married by God through His Son, the Bridegroom and only His Son is called the Bridegroom as He is to be our first love in how we come to God the Father by & honor the Father by as led by the Spirit of God to do.

How you end up with three and not two as a dynamic dual .It remains a mystery ???

The Three Witnesses within the One God in Heaven as testified in 1 John 5:7 in the KJV is originally scripture.

Is 1 John 5:7 not in any Greek manuscript before the 1600s? If it is true, why is it in the KJV?

For this prophesy to come true in Isaiah 48:16-17, the Holy Spirit served as a separate Witness to add to the Father's verbal witness from Heaven regarding Jesus Christ as His son as God be true.

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

Here in Isaiah, God our Redeemer is speaking and yet the Lord God and His Spirit sent Him.

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

So the witness of the Holy Spirit alighting on Jesus was necessary to add to the verbal witness of the Father from Heaven that Jesus is God Our Redeemer because what God commands of men, so will God do in establishing a true witness.

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.

Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

And so the testimony regarding how the Father wants to us to come to Him by and how to honor the Father by and that is His Son, all Three Witnesses of the One God is in agreement.

 

[ChristB4us]

I understand, and I agree. I understand the op's point about "holy laughter," and supplications to Mary. The former is a godless absurdity and the latter unnecessary given our inherent clerical disposition. That, however, has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my reply to this op. I reiterate: A request was made for a case by which scripture could/would/should be understood to prove the practice of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the father and the Son and I provided such a case. I did so with scripture, and I did not appeal to a single creed or any other extra-biblical source.

None of your reference to scriptures addresses the practice of a worship of the Trinity nor the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son. You can continue to post all the scriptures regarding the Holy Spirit as God and the existence of the triune God, BUT there are no scriptures testifying to such a practice nor that kind of worship.

We could, perhaps, use that case as a measure of common or eccentric teachings and practices in modernity, like the so called "holy laughter" (which is an oxymoron), because that case is made with scripture read very plainly. Unblessedly, that conversation is not going to happen as long as Post 62 and its veracity is ignored. I will, therefore, suggest that you consider, "Yes, Josh, the case presented in Post 62 is very good, so let us now apply it to the practice of holy laughter and the scripture-twisting teaching that drives that and other misguided practices." and thereby prove you're actually, genuinely interested in a proof proving the HS can be worshipped with the Father and the Son. Then we can take on the nonsense of "holy laughter." Post 70 is indeed non sequitur to my op-reply. It may not be irrelevant to the op but it is non sequitur to Post 62. Posts 40 and 62 simply establish the case requested and set a foundation for discussing the rest of the op (and its commentary on holy laughter, etc.). Posts 64, 66, 69, and 72 are simply appeals to you to address Post 62. Fixing (or fixating) on disputing holy laughter (which I will gladly enjoin) but ignoring any foundation by which that disputation can happen with other posters is disingenuous at best.

So, I ask one more time: Would you please go back to Post 62 and speak to the veracity of that argument, the argument that is summarized in three bullet points at the end of Post 66.

Proving the Holy Spirit is God does not validate how God the Father wants us to come to Him by nor to honor Him by. Indeed, the Holy Spirit as the Spirit of the Father would be validating the Word of God that specified how the Father want us to come to Him by & honor Him by.

I am not disputing the Holy Spirit is God nor am I disputing the existence of the Triune God, but the commandment of His invitation per John 14:6 excludes the holy Spirit & the Trinity as another way to come to God the Father by and the latter part of John 5:23 excludes the honoring of the Holy Spirit when it specified that when we are not honoring the Son, we are not honoring the Father and Jesus meant it.

Great question. One I will gladly attempt an answer once I read some evidence what others post matters because, so far, it looks like the request for proof was made disingenuously; there is no authentic or sincere interest in having any such proof presented even though that is exactly what was requested.

Only because you keep providing scriptures about how the Holy Spirit is God BUT you did not provide any scripture regarding the kind of worship that is going on in the churches today as far as worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son nor the worship of the Trinity as if that is taught plainly as such as another kind of worship for Christians to do as well. It does not exists.

What does exists are the scriptures that specified His Son as the only way to come to God the Father by and to honor the Father by at the exclusion as in, nary a mention of the Holy Spirit. Jesus is not stupid nor absent-minded. He said it explicitly for a reason and I believe it is to keep our eyes on our first love, the Bridegroom, rather than off of the son in worship and thereby suffering a thief to break through; hence the spirits of the antichrist for whenever our eyes are on the Holy Spirit in worship.

The proof requested has been provided and ignored. A proof by which holy laughter can be measured has been provided...... and ignored. Repeatedly.

Why does the holy laughter come when addressing or honoring the Holy Spirit in worship? That is your white elephant in the room that you are ignoring. Why would God allow a strong delusion to occur when honoring the Holy Spirit or the Trinity in worship?

If you want to avoid that phenomenon from happening in your church, then narrow the way back to the straight gate or risk being left behind which is why I am stressing this warning from Jesus in Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13;24-30 to all Christians in this forum.

 

[Mr GLee]

Jesus Christ as the Son of Man and Son of God died alone on the cross as He had experienced that separation from God the Father when He took our sins upon Himself.

Hi Thanks

Our teaching father Christ worked in the Son of man Jesus. No power comes from the Son of man dying makind . Not as I will but you Abba the power to raise the spiritual dead .

The Three Witnesses within the One God in Heaven as testified in 1 John 5:7 in the KJV is originally scripture.

Is 1 John 5:7 not in any Greek manuscript before the 1600s? If it is true, why is it in the KJV?

For this prophesy to come true in Isaiah 48:16-17, the Holy Spirit served as a separate Witness to add to the Father's verbal witness from Heaven regarding Jesus Christ as His son as God be true.

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

Here in Isaiah, God our Redeemer is speaking and yet the Lord God and His Spirit sent Him.

Three the living word of the father empowered by the Holy Spirit of Christ .One God

1 John 5 :7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Three the unseen Holy Spirit represented by blood and water. poured on earth dying flesh. . The work of the Holy Spirit pouring out His Spirit life in jeapordy of his own Spirit life on dying flesh represented as earth

1 John 5 :8-9 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

 

[Josheb]

None of your reference to scriptures addresses the practice of a worship of the Trinity nor the worship of the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son.

Posts 62 and 66 proves otherwise, but I won't belabor the point further since there is clearly no interest.